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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > Audi SUVs (Q7 & Q5) and other V6 TDIs

Audi SUVs (Q7 & Q5) and other V6 TDIs Discussions area for Audi Q7 and Q5 TDI (2009+ in Canada & the US) as well as others with the V6 TDI such as the A6, A7 and A8 sedans.

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Old February 2nd, 2016, 19:29   #1
Aclarke
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: california
TDI(s): 2011 Q7
Default Hpfp died

Hello all,

Wife's 2011 Q7 with 90,000 miles suffered a HPFP failure and I have some questions after reviewing the factory service manual. Getting ready to time the new pump and was wondering if anyone can give me a better idea of where the plug for setting the crank at TDC is located on the block?? Picture in manual isnt helpful. Also, does the camshaft pulley need to be removed to see the timing mark?

Thanks,

Adam
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 07:45   #2
RebelTDI
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I can't offer advise on hpfp replacement; however, did you check with Audi about replacement under warrenty? It may be covered, so it would be nice not to have to do it yourself. In many cases the entire fuel system has to be replaced due to contamination with fine metal shards throughout the fuel system. Best of luck.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 10:10   #3
Aclarke
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Didn't check with them as I was under the impression only the 4 cylinder had the warranty extension?
Removed and cleaned all the fuel lines and installed a 2 micron filter before the new pump. We will see if the injectors need to be replaced...

Thanks

Adam
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Old February 26th, 2016, 07:44   #4
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We have had two of our customers 3.0l tdi's Fuel Pumps covered under extended warranty. One 2009 vehicle had 137K miles on it and it cost him $0 out of pocket.

We just had a customer fill up at a Speedway with Diesel and he got the bottom of the tank and had deposits in his fuel system. Since the fuel system damage was caused by a "outside influence" the dealer would not cover the repair. So, I recommended he call his insurance company and have them cover it under a comprehensive claim. He insurance company paid the bill and is going after the fuel station.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 15:24   #5
whizznbyu
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My 09 Q7 had a HPFP fail at 115K miles. Dealer said that it had too many miles on it. Then they said it was because I put the wrong fuel in it. I told them to put it down in writing that a TDI engine's life expectancy is right at 115K miles. I told them that I owned a B5 and a 97 PowerStroke, and I knew the difference between diesel and gas fuel pumps. I told them to put the "wrong fuel" clause in it because I was going to tell every single gas station I used that AUDI is accusing them of using water and cheap RUG in place of diesel.
Long story short, I told them that I was a member of this forum, and that I'd share all the info here.
$0 OOP.
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Old March 26th, 2016, 21:52   #6
Drivbiwire
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Let us know, we have great success with getting the original injectors working again.

http://www.dbwllc.net/product/piezo-...rail-injector/
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Old April 4th, 2016, 18:42   #7
n1das
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Free water seems to be what's killing these pumps and does so much faster than poor lubricity will. Anybody noticed a spike in HPFP failures in cold regions during winter months where condensation is more of a problem??
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Old April 30th, 2018, 06:52   #8
DrobKGB
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Default Diy?

My 2012 Q7 (165k miles) has been having an issue the last 4 months where randomly, after it has been running and is warm, it will crank forever but not fire.
Usually, I can cycle the key a few times (priming the low pressure pump?) and it will start.
I have zero issues with it when it is running.

I'm assuming this is the HPFP issue.. and I'd like to fix it before it craps the bed while driving.

It appears that it is right on top up front... and that makes me think I should tackle it myself (I've done everything from CV shafts to suspension to blower motors on this car, and both my other Audis... I have a VCDS)... however... seeing info about "timing" the pump makes me nervous.. is there a link to the service manual or a DIY around?
Is this something I should tackle, or should the entire fuel system be flushed?

All my searches come up with "the dealer told me $138,238,123". I haven't found any "this $#& part broke while I was...".

Thanks in advance for any help!
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Old May 27th, 2018, 00:05   #9
da.hs
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I can't be much help: but "the HPFP issue" is normally catastrophic failure while driving, not intermittent no-starts. Nothing in VCDS about low fuel rail pressure?
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Old June 19th, 2018, 18:03   #10
DrobKGB
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No trouble codes at all, actually.
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Old October 7th, 2018, 11:05   #11
Jim UK
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Default HPFP failure Bosch CP 4.2

Hi from the UK.
Had a catastophic failure of my Audi A8 3.0 TDI high pressure fuel pump at 99,000.
Posted here because you seem to have many failures in the USA across many different vehicles.


In my case the cam roller twisted adout 45 degrees, stopped rolling and machined itself and the cam. Debris got through the fine filter on the metering valve and jammed one of the pump delivery valves open. Instant death of fuel pressure and stopped without any warning. Luckily daylight and sunny otherwise a really dangerous failure.
Reading all your posts about US fuel does not apply in my case. In fact for the last 18,000 miles I used premium diesel which has a much better lubrication rating (circa 400 scar rating I believe) so I think the pump has an intrinsic design weakness. Interested to know of other failures.



There is a class action in Texas as below:-


Quote:
October 2, 2018 Bosch CP4 fuel pump failures have caused a lawsuit that alleges General Motors, Ford, Chrysler and Bosch conspired to equip diesel vehicles with pumps the companies knew would fail.
The lawsuit alleges the CP4 pump is not compatible with American diesel fuel, something that causes the pump to run dry and destroy itself, further destroying the fuel injection system and engine.
Diesel fuel used in American vehicles is cleaner and allegedly provides less lubrication compared to European diesel fuel, something the plaintiffs claim makes American diesel fuel incompatible with the Bosch fuel pumps.
The proposed class-action lawsuit includes Texas consumers who are current and former lessees and owners of Ford, GM and Fiat Chrysler (FCA US) vehicles "fitted with (or fitted with at the point of sale) a Bosch CP4 fuel pump."
According to the lawsuit, the CP4 pump failures occur when diesel fuel is run through the high pressure pumps that are already struggling to maintain enough lubrication. The cleaner diesel fuel allegedly allows air pockets to form inside the pumps, causing metal to rub against metal and sending metal shavings throughout the fuel systems.
The plaintiffs claim the CP4 fuel pump failures typically occur when vehicles head toward 100,000 miles and will end up costing customers $8,000 to $15,000 to replace the fuel systems.
Based on court documents, the plaintiffs argue Texas customers are entitled to be reimbursed billions of dollars as compensation, even if their vehicles haven't yet suffered pump failures.
Bosch, Ford, FCA and GM allegedly equipped the vehicles with the Bosch pumps to make money from consumers after the CP4 fuel injection systems did a good job in European diesel vehicles."
From my experience there is a lot more to this than fuel quality. If interested I can post photos showing internal failure details of the pump.
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Old October 9th, 2018, 07:22   #12
Pat Dolan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim UK View Post
From my experience there is a lot more to this than fuel quality. If interested I can post photos showing internal failure details of the pump.
Jim, I for one would really like that.

I was one of the five people who had to figure out where Ford screwed up with the 7.3. Took us more than a year worth of work and $$$$. Since then, I believe NOBODY, and having long experience with VW, trust nothing that a dealer would be stupid enough to say. I bought the Q7 with healthy respect for the HPFP issue, and really want to understand the failure mode so I can take prophylactic measures.
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Old October 16th, 2018, 07:46   #13
Jim UK
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Default HPFP failure Bosch CP 4.2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ScMUYcFu8gdsvXBp7


Pat,
photos in above link. Sorry about delay, only just checked forum; now on email notification.


In addition you can see this is an issue in Europe, here is an academic paper which clearly states there is a design weakness in this pump.

http://www.pan-ol.lublin.pl/wydawnic.../Osipowicz.pdf


As best as I can tell the problem is the cam roller failure, it stops rolling, you can see on my picture what happens next. Once it stops rolling the cam follower can turn (probably due to the pump action compressing a helical spring), I think once it has turned 45 degrees there is no force to straighten it up again even if it rolled again. But once it is sliding the generation of metal shards is deadly as the photos show.


What stopped it rolling seems to be the huge question, cavitation, surface fatigue causing pitting and jamming look possible on mine. All design weaknesses of course. On mine the other roller had flats (but not as bad as the 45 degree roller) so that had started to fail possibly due to contamination from the 45 degree one.


Tried to get Audi UK involved, no help whatsoever, complete denial, unbelievable response from so called premium manufacurer. Even had an extended warranty ($1700) that expired two thousand miles earlier, no goodwill.
I had car fixed at local Audi dealer, cost circa $4000. they repaced the HPFP and regulator valves and leak off pipes. Lasted 400 miles before engine light came on and into limp mode, now waiting dealer response.

I think the real fix needs pipes, fuel rails and injectors which at dealer prices would write the car off!
Pity we do not have class actions in the UK. As a retired vehicle engineer I would love to be a witness.
I have more if of interest on cam lubrication and other academic papers.
Let me know if you want more.
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Old October 17th, 2018, 23:51   #14
Macradiators.com
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For the engines before 2012 its possible to make cp3 conversion and you can enjoy your car without problems. Later cars with the pump in the back near turbine, its not possible. It happened to me also on the 3.0 engine CCWA code.
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Old October 20th, 2018, 22:53   #15
da.hs
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Would it be possible to post the CP3 upgrade you mention on something other than Facebook?
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