Hissing/leaking EGR cooler fixed!

I think you need to add about 3,000 more arrows with LEAK on them.... I've seen better designs come out of a government bureaucracy...

What should I weld it with? What is the material?

Wow, this thread has progressed great! I like John's method of simply welding the hole shut. I'm going to try this with my MIG while the egr is on the car!

john_tsouris@hotmail.com said:

Here

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Thanks for "pointing" that out!

OK, I finished the modification. I have a 2006 BRM in my jetta that had the hissing noise and smell at idle. This is not a job for the timid! I revised the OD down to 17 mm (.669 in) to fit. I really appreciate the prior work by Torque Delight and others on this thread. This was a very good repair installing the Aluminum Copper Bushing. This is the ticket. All is good. No leaks, great power, no hissing. I'm very happy with the repair and it was accomplished for less than $100, Tools, Bushing, and supplies included.

Thanks to Torque Delight and others who drew the bushing drawing. I have some "improvements" (IMHO) that could make it better.

I would adjust two diameters on the bushing. 17 mm Outside Diameter fits into the BRM 2005.5 and up EGR Cooler Flapper rotating shaft. I would also recommend that the 12mm diameter be cut down to 10 mm, as this diameter and the 14 mm length is quite arbitrary. The only reason for this "stem" is so you can easily grab it back out of the hole if you want to. The reason I say 10 mm diameter is that the original clip would install into the original position and fit nicely around 10 mm. As it was, I had to trim that clip to remove the inner two "legs" to hold the bushing in place. The vacuum dashpot on mine (actuator) does not move that smoothly, but it does return home after a couple of seconds with a thud.

As I said above, not a job for the timid. You need 5 & 6 mm Allen sockets, 12, 13, 14 mm wrenches and sockets, a variety of torq-bits T25, T30, T45, quite a few triple-square socket sizes, and a 27mm socket for the oil return tube which is necessary to remove to extract the EGR Cooler. You also need about a pint of G12 coolant, distilled water to dilute, anti-seize compound for all the fasteners in hot spots and locktite (blue-medium) for those that came out with it.

When disassembling the snorkel tube after the inner cooler, I found it easier to remove the clamp at the upper right front corner of the engine compartment and take out the hard tube with one screw. Then you do not have to install a clamp in tight spots. A mirror works nice to install some of the screws.

One thing that I was expecting to do was remove the intake manifold. I can now say that without removing the turbo, that is impossible. I cleaned out what I could reach from the opening by the EGR valve. This took me an hour as I scrapped every reachable spot with popcycle stick, my gloved fingers, disposable rags sprayed with choke cleaner, until I was happy with the entrance "Throat" of the manifold. I would have loved to take it out, but was unwilling to remove the turbo to do so. All the residue was very sticky with precipitated deposits that slowly will choke up the inlet.

I did not do the Stop Mod (two posts prior) as This really doesn't limit the travel too much and the flapper will not close completely. This device is not the EGR valve.

Cleaning with the pressure washer was a great idea. Thanks to all. More pictures to come.

Does anyone have an extra bushing for sale? Seems like it would be expensive for a machine shop to make just one of.

see below.
I pulled this out of mainjets post 30 of this thread. This is the picture of a 2006 BRM. Unless you have a lift don't do it(passenger side drive axle is right in your face when your on your back.
I have just done mine and after reading the most usefull comments came up with a method that allowed replacement of the bush without removing the cooler from car and not having to weld the actuator arm back on. After grinding the swaged lever connection off and replacing the bush it is necessary to retain the lever so that it does not rock back and forth and wear the now non-peened connection. This can be done. I have also solved the majority of the fitting problem with this method and therfore minimized leakage from sloppy clearances( fitting to a close fit is very difficult as measuring is near impossible to do properly).
I do not use brass as it wears to fast( unless you use aluminum bronze as one poster did) and expands and therefore contracts to much which could cause locking if the clearance is filled with soot and may not cause the shaft to open on start up until once again the brass expands( we are talking 400 to 600 F degrees here inside near seal).
I suggest if any body has a cooler leak to wait until I can post a drawing and pictures. I think you will see the advantage. The cooler from ID parts is worth 320 bucks( aprox). Some of my bolts up in there were corroded and if something snapped I would be in one of those done that will never do that again positions. This will solve this problem. I will post by next week I hope.
On start up when cold vacuum will divert gases to warm intake manifold and avoid acid condensation in cooler if working properly. It is important to fully divert exhaust gases or cooler will rust out inside and eventually leak.
Make sure arm pulls fully back to stop on start up cold( vacuum does this).
Shown below in spring return position where it diverts gases to cooler and EGR when hot or it is the position when engine is off as well. Edit: engine off or hot, spring extended as shown diverting gases to cooler and EGR valve. It is better called a diverting flap.

Ill be waiting to see what James & Son has come up with

Hyde7278 said:

Ill be waiting to see what James & Son has come up with

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Hyde,
You have to click on the pint size image that I added in my above post. you have to log in to the photo gallery to gain access.
I think you said you were interested in producing some of these. Take a look and if your interested PM me. The problem with the existing bushing method is that it is fitted to the first counterbore that ranges from farmer bobs 17 mm to almost 18 mm and mine is a brm like farmerbobs and it is 17.8 mm. I am removing the clip and using the second counterbore which should be consistant. The retainer uses the bracket screw to sandwhich the rotating pivot arm ( not shown) between the bush and the retainer cap.

Edit: the hole in the retainer cap is for construction purposes and it allows for inspection. I plan on a thin wall bushing being pressed into the top of the free machining stainless steel bush.

jsrmonster said:

yes, no problem when accompanied with proper sw corrections to mitigate the control process. ie, ASV (flap) cycles with egr and when egr is blocked and this flap will normally cycle and starves engine of air killing fuel economy.

Not all tuners kill the egr ASV function (anti-shudder valve). You can check this with engine idling pull off intake pipe. This valve should be wide open and still and not cycling (when tuned). When engine is shut off it should also momentarily close. If tuner turns it off completely that is bad if you have runaway (cant shut off engine runaway). I have seen it still functional and also totally deleted in competitors tunes, not good. The many small details like this are what yields best fuel economy and eliminate part throttle anomalies. Even the oem engineers cannot get this working right during warmup.

Jeff

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Yes!! 100% this!! I am a believer that the MPG hit that people see with blocked off EGR is due to the pumping losses associated with a cycling ASV. I have monitored ASV position using an OBD-II scanner (forgot the PID) and it would bounce back and forth depending on the load condition and at cold-startup depending on the water temp. All regardless of the fact that there is no EGR flow detected. I have not had the opportunity to verify this with VCDS but I can say that as soon as I physically unplugged the EGR valve, the ASV stays at 94.9% full-time. It's quite fascinating that this is probably the 2nd or third time that I've seen this phenomenon mentioned on this board, my post(s) included. I mentioned my findings to a popular tuner but have not had a chance to follow-up with VCDS data.


Sorry for the poast necro, but this is important stuff!

bl00tdi, I would like to see the egr workable because it helps warm the car up for one thing and reduce partical emmissions ( you have heard of cancer right). You get a AVS hit because the pumping losses( your conclusion) you now have are due to removing the exhaust gases from the the air intake. Well it makes more sense to understand the function of the cooler and repair it.

I looked at how the cooler works( it is a long tube). If the coolant temperature is at operating temperature the exhaust gases are routed through the top half of the cooler to cool the exhaust gases before entering the EGR.

If the car is cold the flap diverts the EG to the lower part of the cooler and by passes the the upper cooling portion ( coolant exchanger in upper). This prevents acid destroying condensation from forming on a cold exchanger). So make sure actuator is working before attempting any repair to a leaking bushing/seal.

I am showing a picture of my recent repair. It works fine and should last a long time I think but it is to expense( to many pieces to build). It is totally repairable because I use the small angle retainer to keep the lever arm retained without welding.

I am showing the bush seal. The bearing now is separated. The upper dimension is the tight fit and the lower is what I ended up with to get a removable bushing. Note I took the pressed in clip out and am using what I feel is a more accurate part of the stepped bore ( 16.5 mm and 7mm dia).

I believe there is a method which would allow fixing this with out grinding the arm off so that would eliminate the need for the retainer. Unfortunately I am not in a position to pursue this further but may come up with a much simpler( affordable) solution for my other car if the need arises. In the mean time I think the brass bushing is the cheapest DIY if you don't mind a lot of labor removing fitting/replacing with the fitted bushing, labor you would do anyways. Drop back in 10 minutes and I will insert the picture.


Retainer ready to go on


Reply to bi00tdi below- OK agreed.

James & Son said:

bl00tdi, I would like to see the egr workable because it helps warm the car up for one thing and reduce partical emmissions ( you have heard of cancer right). You get a AVS hit because the pumping losses( your conclusion) you now have are due to removing the exhaust gases from the the air intake. Well it makes more sense to understand the function of the cooler and repair it.

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I don't mean to debate the merits or demerits of working EGR one way or the other. My reply was very specific and directed toward a particular member about a specific topic...i.e. pumping losses due to the ASV not staying open. I am a cancer survivor and so is my older brother so I don't need to be lectured about the dangers of that disease. I disagree that EGR reduces particulate emissions or that diesel "smoke" is somehow categorically worse than gasoline particulate simply because it's more visible. That's pure bunk. My vehicle smokes significantly less with an inop EGR anyway. This is the extent to which I will discuss this because my mind has been made up and I respect your opinions on other TDI-related topics and would like it to stay that way.

bl00tdi said:

I don't mean to debate the merits or demerits of working EGR one way or the other. My reply was very specific and directed toward a particular member about a specific topic...i.e. pumping losses due to the ASV not staying open. I am a cancer survivor and so is my older brother so I don't need to be lectured about the dangers of that disease. I disagree that EGR reduces particulate emissions or that diesel "smoke" is somehow categorically worse than gasoline particulate simply because it's more visible. That's pure bunk. My vehicle smokes significantly less with an inop EGR anyway. This is the extent to which I will discuss this because my mind has been made up and I respect your opinions on other TDI-related topics and would like it to stay that way.

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EGR reduces only NOX, that's it. IIRC I read a study at one time that this EGR provided NOX reduction actually comes with a small increase in HC (visible particulate), CO, etc. IMO, diesel EGR systems are the result of federal regulations gone too far. I am an environmentalist, but a pragmatic one. When I consider what a universal problem diesel EGR systems are and how many cars and trucks that are taken off the road before their time due to EGR issues (coupled with incompetent service) I have to wonder what the environmental cost of all those manufactured replacement vehicles is? We too often forget about resource extraction/manufacturing/distribution environmental costs in cases like these. I expect those far outweigh the minor NOX emissions from non-EGR diesels that are kept in service!

Anyone making and selling the "upgraded" bushing. I've been running with the hissing now for 20k miles with a great loss in fuel economy. Not gonna delete, block, or weld. I'll just replace the whole thing if I'm unable to obtain the "upgraded" bushing.

richbking said:

It just gets soot inside the engine compartment and I had horrible fumes coming in through the AC vents. Other than that, I don't believe you will cause any harm to the engine.

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Actually, I have this issue on my 2005.5. And how I originally found the leak was from Malone. He noticed a terrible boost creep.
So the health of your turbo may be at risk if you do not have a gauge to monitor.

James & Son, I like your retainer idea. That was genious. Not having to remove the cooler to perform this modification would have been a great labor savings. You ought to start machining kits for this job. Charge people $35 and it would save them hours on the job. Great work (from one who has performed the prior modification of the bushing).

I also see you chose a 16.5 mm OD to the bushing, where I used 17 mm. Maybe there are a lot of suppliers for this POS EGR Cooler.
Great work.

bobthefarmer said:

James & Son, I like your retainer idea. That was genious. Not having to remove the cooler to perform this modification would have been a great labor savings. You ought to start machining kits for this job. Charge people $35 and it would save them hours on the job. Great work (from one who has performed the prior modification of the bushing).

I also see you chose a 16.5 mm OD to the bushing, where I used 17 mm. Maybe there are a lot of suppliers for this POS EGR Cooler.
Great work.

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Thanks bob for the compliment. I was impressed by your dedication to fixing the problem on your car as well.

Just to be clear the od and id are the result of removing the shaft retaining clip and using the dimensions where normally the original bearing/seal would be. I think the bush as you and others have put in retains the clip and uses the od and id dimensions above the clip. So my dimension compared to yours is 17.8 mm which is very close to the first posters dimension( the man ).

By the way, I have another A5 jetta with a BRM and the cooler is still ok but I felt I could do something to support its shaft before the seal started leaking. That might be workable for the cost of about 40.00 I think if someone like Diesel geek would make it in volume. It bolts on in about 1/2 hour with no removal of the lever since you do this before the seal wears out. I have made up 4 of these already for testing and will try them out when it warms up. I will post a picture when I get a chance.

Possible Preventative and cheap fix

Ok, I mention in post 132 there must be a way to do the repair without removing the cooler and grinding off the arm.

I was not able to come up with a inexpensive repair for a leaking cooler but was able to come up with an inexpensive preventative for a non leaking cooler that I have had made up for some time as I mensioned in my post above.

I had the chance yesterday to install on my car as I needed to change the oil and we had a window with weather above freezing. As usual always takes longer than expected.

here is the picture of what I installed. I made up 4 for the experiment. 3 have .002 inch clearance and just in case I made one with .004 inch clearance. I ended up using the .004 one and having to do some minor fitting which ment taking it on off several times.

I am sure the tighter support will work if one had access to new cooler non-mounted for measuring shaft to bolt surfase squareness as after working on the cooler on both of my A5 cars now I have found the bolt surface is not square and considerably out to shaft, which makes fitting difficult. However there may be a chance that it is consistant and a part can be made that will fit up nicely. It think diesel Geek would have the resources to determine if this the case. Anyway as it stands it will work with .004 to .005 clearance which on the existing bearing is similar to .003 clearance at its inner position.

The other necessary thing to do is break out the 2 mm thick fiber washer under the C shape retainer clip( see picture of clip of new cooler pg 9). This is done easily by pinching the ends of the fork shaped prong of the C clip, that fits over the shaft and pushes against fiber thrust washer, with a needle nose pliers. Instead of pushing against the fiber washer it now pushes directly against the lever although with much less force( but enough I think). This provides enough room and thickness for the new slot bearing retainer. Everything slides into place and new metric cap screws 12 mm long instead of 8 mm long are then used to tighten it down.

Unfortunately i for got to get an instaled picture but my post 132 shows how on the other car I used an aluminum retainer installed by the same 2 screws. But as I stated previously this is for a non-leaking cooler.

I think this might be something diesel geek might be interested in persuing. I am only interested in getting some of my costs out of what I have done on this which would not be much.

In short it should prevent or slow cooler leakage which usually happens at 170,000 miles average hopefully making the cooler last much longer at minimal cost.

NEW $5 FIX THAT WORKS:

I tried a bunch of stuff to DIY fix the EGR cooler leak, nothing worked. If anyone needs this in the future and they will LOL, I just came up with a $5 fix that works and is even easier to do check out this thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=411630
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Why does my EGR Cooler shaft look so much different than all the pictures I see??. I have a very late 2006 Jetta TDI.

4 years later a thread responce ..

Nope. There hadn't been any antifreeze top off or fill I'm aware of. The Denver VW dealer did replace a VW OEM molded H2O hose which is nearby the high heat of the EGR and rear of the engine. Subsequently the antifreeze smell ended; a loose clamp, porous H2O hose? I dunno.

The TDI continues to be a great daily driver. 145,000 miles and counting.

At a local Vail, CO shop today the source of a 1qt @ 3,500 mi condition is sought to be at the turbo's oil return line flange. Its noticeably leaking oil at this location, yet no signs of excessive oil (any oil) of any kind in the actual intake system.
The Georgia VW dealership who performed the EGR R&R last prolly didn't re-tighten this turbo flange. Question is? Does the EGR/Cooler R&R require a loosening of this oil return line. I don't think so ....
The VW Tech did omit a bolt to the EGR/Cooler bracket anyway...

First Class work eh?

You wouldn't happen to have any laying around you would like to sell would you? I just got quoted 1500.00 for the EGR cooler replacement from my local stealership. They said they need to replace the return pipe and a couple of hoses.

Stan, do you still have anymore? If so hit me up. Thanks.

Hi, I was looking at this thread last week and came across someone's post that gave a series of great photos for installing the brass bushing. Does anyone know who posted the the intsallation details with all the photos. I can not seem to find it in the 10 pages of this thread. My mechanic is attempting the job this Wednesday. I am having two brass bushing made tomorrow. if anyone wants the 2nd one let me know and I will sell it for $40 (my cost was $75 plus tax for 1 or 2 to be made). Hoping that I won't need the 2nd one.

Update: after 2 years of the hiss and exhaust smell, it's fixed! thanks to this thread! I did the brass bushing method, OD diameter of 17.48 mm It was a little loose, so I would go up to the 17.78 mm if I did it again. Did not have to remove the axel or exhaust. Did have a hoist though. Getting the clip back in was a challenge, but finally found the right position.

I have one extra brass bushing for sale, if some one would like it. Kwgil@hotmail.com

Could someone make me one of these brass bushings? I don't have acess to a machine shop. Wish I did. Ex tool and die maker. This would be easy to make.

The ship to me in Barrie. A new EGR cooler for one bad design bushing is ridiculous.

How to release the vacuum actuator rod from the EGR arm?

I read some place that it is like the ball end on the hood support, and releases the same way. But it seems not, there is no C-clip to pull off. Its an 06 Jetta TDI MK5, and the EGR valve has the same problem, the bushing has disintegrated, allowing lots of exhaust gas to escape. I can't get to first base until I get that actuator rod off the EGR control arm. I have also tried and tried to release the spring clip. I understand there is a little spring "fork" within the shaft housing that has to be pushed in, but no luck with that either. Is this "fork" on the upper or lower left as you are looking at it on the car?

Hey guys sorry for dragging up an old thread here but this is the best read I've seen regarding the egr cooler leak! Awsome!

I've come to the conclusion I've got the dreaded leak too. Pretty loud hissing at rear of engine when egr is active. Strong exhaust smell . Soot in that area . Poor mpg

My question here is as others have previously mentioned how bad can it really affect performance? I'm sure my boost issues I'm experiencing are due to the leak. Well I hope so anyway ?


Any help would be much appreciated

I'd suggest deleting it and having it tuned out.

How much does it cost to get it tuned out?