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TDI Fuel Economy Discussions about increasing the fuel economy of your TDI engine. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old March 22nd, 2018, 05:30   #16
oilhammer
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Sounds like someone did a M&P job.
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 07:57   #17
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... after pointing out how bad they are, to the customer.
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 16:14   #18
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Quote:
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Sounds like someone did a M&P job.
M&P job?
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 16:36   #19
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Mark & Pray.

Mark (the sprocket, the belt, etc) and then Pray (that it's close enough and no damage happens)
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 16:52   #20
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Mark & Pray.

Mark (the sprocket, the belt, etc) and then Pray (that it's close enough and no damage happens)
LOL. the American V-8's are a lot more forgiving. Dots and done.
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 03:32   #21
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LOL. the American V-8's are a lot more forgiving. Dots and done.

Hehe, you've not worked on many of the newer ones then, have you? And by newer, I mean stuff that is now several decades old. The Ford Triton engines, the Cadillac Northstar engines, the ChryCo 4.7L Powertech engines, and the newer Chevrolet V8s with all their vario-cam vario-valve nonsense. Talk about a clusterfudge...
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 08:20   #22
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OP, I hate to bring this up but it is worth a look: look at the parts bill for the timing belt job and check the list against any one of our vendors timing belt kits to see if the same items were used when your belt was changed. It is not super common of late (that I know of) but a while back the dealers weren't replacing all of the rollers and 40k miles later when one or both of the old guide rollers seized, the timing belt broke destroying the top half of the motor; of course the broken timing belts had nothing to do with the "quality" of the work the stealership did...
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 08:23   #23
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I believe a timing belt service at a dealer consists of replacing the belt and tensioner. No rollers, serp belt or water pump, and most dealers don't renew the single use mount bolts. Of course the invoice should list the parts replaced.
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 08:35   #24
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Hehe, you've not worked on many of the newer ones then, have you? And by newer, I mean stuff that is now several decades old. The Ford Triton engines, the Cadillac Northstar engines, the ChryCo 4.7L Powertech engines, and the newer Chevrolet V8s with all their vario-cam vario-valve nonsense. Talk about a clusterfudge...
When I learned auto transmissions, for example, they had 3 speeds, and the Mustang had *just* changed from a carb to EFI. And I've always been an amateur. I did work with the local hotrod builder who also was my auto tech teacher and got to work on neat (now very old) stuff - 60's Mopars and Mustangs, a Pantera, a real Cobra, '52 T-bird etc.

The electronics I learned on my own. The tech has gotten even more complicated and expensive in the past 2 decades - special scan tools, electronic controls for everything (really, the license plate lamp needs to be connected to canbus? Srsly?? for a license plate? ) How many coolant hoses does a TDI have? A dozen or so? Let's talk about the AC circuit? Crazy the unnecessary complexity it has.

Each manufacturer has also made their tech more exclusive. So now if I own 5 brands (which I do lol) I need so many more special tools. and to do what, one job maybe? So then, I have to weigh if it's worth buying the tools and my work hours vs just paying a pro.

I did bearings on my Ford Explorer for example- $350 worth of extra tools (mostly presses and seal installers) if I bought them outright. I babied the truck for several months and eventually pieced together the tools from Ebay and other tool makers for about $50. But it took a lot of extra effort/searching. and for a job I will likely only do once, ever.

So I read. I chose my jobs carefully. and I've gotten rid of most of my "projects" leaving only the Jetta as my hobby. It's still fun to learn about the stuff though.
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 09:06   #25
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Yes, it absolutely has gotten very complex... and I agree in many cases needlessly so.

And every time I come across some arrangement that seems to make it simpler, they drape five other things on top of that.

Just had a Prius in here that had more codes hidden away than a WW2 German U-boat captain. Seriously, of the 16 modules, 12 of them had faults.

I think this is why my field has really dropped off recently in "new recruits", because now over half of the auto tech class drops out after just a few weeks. Seriously, these kids are lost. I feel old saying that, too, but it's true. The new guy we hired a while back is right out of school, and while he has a good attitude, he struggles with some basic common sense things, and what is worse is he does not always even know when he needs to ask someone more experienced for help or even an opinion on a plan of attack.
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 10:26   #26
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https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...icians-feature

Our TDIs (even the new ones) aren't terribly complex compared to some of the vehicles that are currently in service. And it's not easy to find people to take care of them.
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 13:04   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...icians-feature

Our TDIs (even the new ones) aren't terribly complex compared to some of the vehicles that are currently in service. And it's not easy to find people to take care of them.
I remember an article about 10 years ago saying that working on engines had turned into rocket science. My first car a 1968 Ford Custom with a 302 cubic inch, carburator, points controlled distributor was a gear head dream: won't start? hit accelerator pump and see if you have fuel, got fuel? Crank and check for spark at one spark plug, got spark? if it didn't start it is timing.

Now on my 2002 I pull out VCDS and do a scan then go to the Ross-Tech Wiki page for guidance. Yes it is not that easy any more but I have adapted.
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 13:23   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post

Our TDIs (even the new ones) aren't terribly complex compared to some of the vehicles that are currently in service.
Yup... just have to remember that they unlike the typical American V-8 from the past they are interference engines and as such are designed to manage the space between the valves and the pistons very very carefully.

So... a little bit of respect when doing the timing belt and all is well. Bluff thru it with a yellow paint stick and you takes your chances.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 10:59   #29
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I would like to point out that even if you use oem tools to put timing to correct spec the OEM accepts +-3,0 tolerance for the torsion value. If you havent checked what the torsion value was before the belt change the odds are very tiny that it will go exactly same even if you do everything by the book as previous changes might not have used the tools and many other things effect to end result.



Just 0,6 degrees difference in tosion value has huge effect to your fuel consumption.


What you should do is try to find the best value for your car. Lowest idle fuel consumption gets you in the ballpark, but best FE value can be 2,0 degrees off from that value. If you have found the best value mark it to the cover and ask in the next service that they will adjust it to the same value.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 13:54   #30
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Not the best idea.

I'd take it to Rich:

Repairs at Richard's
1571 Keencheefoonee Road
Rutledge, Ga 30663
541-980-1466

and have the car set up correctly. Static timing is important on these cars, as is how the pump timing is set. A poorly set up car will show the symptoms you describe, and it's unlikely you'll get any satisfaction from the dealer.

Chalk the additional cost to fix it as a lesson learned.

Thanks for this referral. When I get the car back to Atlanta I'll give Rich a call to see if it can be dialed in a bit better. If anyone knows anyone in southern Idaho, that can really dial it in, I'd be interested.

The car's performance has been acceptable, but yeah, it was better before. Drove it across the country to Idaho, no problems....but the MPG wow factor was not the same as when I drove it from California to Oregon. Not a huge difference, but still...noticeable.

Thanks everyone for the intel.
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