Simple IP 101 help needed

esimkins

Active member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Location
Temecula, CA
TDI
jetta
History, real quick....

1997 TDI Jetta converted to M-TDI pump. It's ran rather well for the past three years for the most part. It's now died for the second time, so I am in process of converting it back to the E-TDI pump.

I had put the E-TDI pump on the first time the M-TDI broke but it had some faults from the engine codes causing it to not rev very high (limp mode I suspect), point is that it worked, idled, reved a little.

This time, I put the E-TDI pump again and now I get no fuel out the injector lines. Only a little as I also have a lift pump due to old Veggie-oil conversion in the past. I re-installed the third injector, connected the electric plugs to the E-TDI pump. Cleared the engine codes so there are currently none on the OBD. Cracked the fuel lines to try to bleed the lines, but no squirting out the lines.

Towards my question....
The company rebuilding the M-TDI pump said the sheer pin was broke, said it was a safety pin that snapped inside the pump to save the rest of the pump from breaking.

So my question is.... because my pump isn't spitting any fuel out the lies, could this sheer pin also be broke on the E-TDI pump? Does it have this sheer pin? Can this pin be replaced without pulling apart or checked? How does one brake this sheer pin?

Mainly, if my pump is turning and timed, without any fuel coming out, does this just mean it has to be rebuilt? Or is there anything else that will keep the pump from pushing fuel through.

I do hear
 

oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
Check that you have power to the fuel shutoff solenoid when key is on.
Are there engine codes?
 

ketchupshirt88

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
TDI
2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
That's a good place to start. you can actually remove the plunger of that fuel cut-off solenoid for priming/troubleshooting and the car will run fine.

I'd use a mity-vac to prime everything. You can prime it with diesel, diesel fuel supplements, or ATF among other things. I personally use ATF because theres always a jug or 3 in my dads shop.
that way you can see if there are seal leaks that prevent the priming of the injectors without even ever turning it over.


A cheap brake bleeder from harbor freight works well if you dont own one yet.

As for the dead MTDI pump, i know its a prothe pump (from previous posts) but if you are interested in selling it for a few bucks let me know.

That way i can experiment before pulling apart any of my VW pumps.
 

esimkins

Active member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Location
Temecula, CA
TDI
jetta
Not sure what to update you two with yet. I did think of that, like step ONE. But then forgot again. Sure enough it wasn't getting power, but now still isn't getting but a little dribble in the IP lines. I can get a little bit of pressure it seems to maybe one injector, but doesn't seem like enough pressure for all four. I think I will go with the idea it's not fully bleed yet, but it never takes this long in the past, so still suspect something else I'm missing. I don't get power from the Etdi wire harness for the hot wire, but put the power wire from the Mtdi hot wire I was using previously. Also tried it directly to the battery to make sure it was getting power and clicking the solenoid. I am getting some smoke out the back, and there was a single small pop just after you first both replied, but still no go.

So will make sure it's got all lines bleed some more before I look for another idea to try and report back.

Thanks for your replies,
 

esimkins

Active member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Location
Temecula, CA
TDI
jetta
Read a couple posts, it suggested the fuel is controlled by the electronic pump, so, I think I will check the electric connections and maybe that will fix my power to the shut off valve and fuel pressure at the same time. These ETDI's I think I need to move into the new age of Diesel, or at least out of the 90's?
 

esimkins

Active member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Location
Temecula, CA
TDI
jetta
Looks like there is a 109 relay, will need to test or replace and figure out why no power to my IP shut off solenoid.
 

ketchupshirt88

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
TDI
2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
2 telltale signs of relay 109 are that it cranks just fine but will never start and the glow plug light on your dash fails to do the self test when you turn the key on.

even if the engine is at 100F it will flash that glowplug light for just a split second when you turn the key on, as part of the self test.

fuel is controlled by the electronic pump, that fuel shutoff solenoid is actually just a holdover from the older mech pumps and serves as a backup to the electronics which will actually shut off the fuel flow by going to zero when you turn the key off. that is why the car will start, stop and run just fin without the little solenoid if you needed it to.
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
hey Ketchup, i actually pulled the plunger from my fuel stop solenoid a few years back trying to diagnose an issue and the truck would not shut down when the key was turned off... i had to stall it with the clutch, so the solenoid actually does cut fuel and the QA does not perform that function
 

CoolAirVw

Vendor
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
Jetta
We had a ALH car in the other day and ended up removing the stop solenoid pintle as a test and the car still ran and still shut off, despite the ASV being disabled. (I was suprised)

Since Jimbote had one that didn't shut off with the QA, and I've had one that did shut off with the QA I would guess there is differences in software year to year and some might have software stategy to shut off with teh QA but others might not.

hey Ketchup, i actually pulled the plunger from my fuel stop solenoid a few years back trying to diagnose an issue and the truck would not shut down when the key was turned off... i had to stall it with the clutch, so the solenoid actually does cut fuel and the QA does not perform that function
 

ketchupshirt88

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
TDI
2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
We had a ALH car in the other day and ended up removing the stop solenoid pintle as a test and the car still ran and still shut off, despite the ASV being disabled. (I was surprised)

Since Jimbote had one that didn't shut off with the QA, and I've had one that did shut off with the QA I would guess there is differences in software year to year and some might have software strategy to shut off with the QA but others might not.
That's interesting. I've done it on an AHU with JB ecu, dont recall if stage 1 chips or stock chips were in it at the time. That engine/ecu was already in the 1996 passat when i did it, if that matters.

It shut off with the key when i was testing that theory. maybe it depends on the QA's settings or its range of motion?
 

esimkins

Active member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Location
Temecula, CA
TDI
jetta
Thanks Ketchupshirt88 and all for even reading my post even if little off subject :).

I think I need to start with the glow plug relay, it does click, but probably doesn't mean it's good.

Here are the codes I cleared after the pump was put back on the car. So they probably aren't really all relevant but also makes me wonder as there seems to be a lot of shorts to grounds?

P1562 Quantity Adjuster Upper Stop Value
P1354 Modulating Piston Displacement Sensor Electrial Circuit Malfunction
P1247 Needle Lift Sensor Open/Short To Positive
P1160 Intake Air Temperature Sensor Short To Ground.
P1163 Fuel Temperature Sensor Open/Short To Positive.
P1617 Glow Plug Indicator Lamp Open/Short To Ground
P1252 Start Of Cold Start Injector Open/Short To Ground

As mentioned glow plugs never really worked, but the self test/flash when key turned on used to work. So 109 relay and glow plug troublshooting is a good direction.

I am getting engine codes, so ECU is getting power.
 
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