Bad Battery or Gelled Fuel?

Mass. Wine Guy

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May 21, 2001
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Ipswich, Massachusetts
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It’s been in single digit temperatures lately in New England. Last night I drove my 2003 Jetta wagon to the supermarket and it started up and ran fine. When I tried starting it early this afternoon, it barely chugged and sounded like a very weak battery. The door locks kept locking and unlocking.

Hooked up heavy duty jumper cables from my 2001 Golf TDI. same result.
Could the battery have degraded so much since yesterday? Or is fuel the issue?

I am careful to add the anti-gel Power Service in winter, especially when frigid temps are predicted. I put 5 to 6 ounces in the other day. If the fuel is gelled, can I just pour some 911 into the tank? I’m not skilled enough to take the fuel pump apart? Could I heat it up a little using a hair dryer? I need to get my car running a.s.a.p.

Thank you for your help.
 

steve6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Location
Beaverton, ON
TDI
2003 jetta tdi
'barely chugged', Definitely sounds like low battery, sometimes batteries are so drained that jumpers do not help.

The starter could be drawing too much power as well.
 

STDOUBT

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Jul 30, 2007
Location
Portland, effing Oregon
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dos jettas
So...once it's running it just chugs and doesn't smooth out?
How long did you leave the battery-supply car connected and running before giving up?
Sounds more like battery or starter than fuel, but I'd bet on battery.
Are you skilled enough to watch a youtube video on how to test your battery with a multimeter? I bet you are!:)
 

Mass. Wine Guy

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Ipswich, Massachusetts
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5-speed, 2015 Golf S 6-speed manual; 2015 Golf Sportwagen SEL 6-speed manual
I didn’t leave the jumpers connected very long. When it didn’t start right up I assumed that it wasn’t going to help. Should I try again and just let the donor car run for a while?

By barely chugged, I meant that it didn’t turn over.
 

jayb79

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May 20, 2000
Location
Exeter,NH
Sound like battery to me. How old and how big is it? I put am H8 (Group 49) in my Golf and couldn't believe how much easier it started.
 

Mass. Wine Guy

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Ipswich, Massachusetts
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It’s one of those monster heavy duty, big Bosch batteries. I’m probably going to pull it and check the date on it. If less than five years, I can get a free replacement.
 

super1

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NY
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It’s one of those monster heavy duty, big Bosch batteries. I’m probably going to pull it and check the date on it. If less than five years, I can get a free replacement.


Is it the AMG ? Might only be 4 years ? Mine is from Pep boys & 4 years

Are you sure your jumper cables are good and have good connections on them


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STDOUBT

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Location
Portland, effing Oregon
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dos jettas
I doubt a Bosch would last less than 5 years unless your alternator isn't putting out like it should. Or the car has a parasitic draw.
And yes, leave the cables on it (running) for a couple minutes, and while attempting start the dead one. I've read AGM batteries are not the best choice for our cars due to the way our alternators work. I may be wrong, but.
 

super1

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NY
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I doubt a Bosch would last less than 5 years unless your alternator isn't putting out like it should. Or the car has a parasitic draw.
And yes, leave the cables on it (running) for a couple minutes, and while attempting start the dead one. I've read AGM batteries are not the best choice for our cars due to the way our alternators work. I may be wrong, but.


Where did you hear that about the AMG batteries not good for our cars ? Curious


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turbobrick240

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maine
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Bring the battery inside and warm it up. Hook up a charger if you have one. That should get you started and to the parts store for a new battery.
 

eddieleephd

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Battle Ground, Wa
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2002 jetta Wagon
Beings you drove it, then had the problem, I think you should have the alternator load tested.
Generally if you start a vehicle earlier in the day and it has a battery issue, it's the alternator. The bad charge regulator drains the battery while you drive.

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Ol'Rattler

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PNA
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2006 BRM Jetta
Where did you hear that about the AMG batteries not good for our cars ? Curious
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Bentley's maintenance manual has a a blurb about that. "What they say is that there are 2 types of batteries possible in a VW and you should replace your battery with the same type that was installed by the factory".

The 2 types are flooded cell and AMG and since all N/A Golfs and Jetta's come with a flooded cell battery, that is the type you should use for replacement. Apparently a flooded cell and an AGM battery require different charging profiles and are not directly interchangeable without also changing the alternator.

It amazes me the people will spend $100+ more for the wrong battery for there car.
 
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eddieleephd

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May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
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2002 jetta Wagon
The 2 types are flooded cell and AMG and since all N/A Golfs and Jetta's come with a flooded cell battery, that is the type you should use for replacement. Apparently a flooded cell and an AGM battery require different charging profiles and are not directly interchangeable without also changing the alternator.

It amazes me the people will spend $100+ more for the wrong battery for there car.
Interesting information about the charging profile, dry cell batteries are sold as an upgrade. Just as they try to sell single ground strap spark plugs for a Toyota with waste spark ignition systems, they last about 500 miles NGK or not. NGK or Denso dual strap spark plugs are all that works in my experience.
Batteries are one thing I have found the dealer to be comparable on and I purchased a 900 CA battery from them, can't remember what it cost. It was a new brand name unit and about the same, or cheaper, than the auto store.

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Genesis

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Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
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'03 Jetta Wagon
The dealers are remarkably competitive on battery replacement prices.

AGMs (1) can discharge and charge MUCH more quickly (much lower internal resistance) and (2) are non-spillable, having recombiners for the hydrogen released (thus they do not need nor can you add water to them.) They also can withstand deep cycling much better than a flooded starting battery which will be severely damaged by even ONE full discharge and take cumulative damage if run down below 50-70% state of charge.

AGMs can take whatever current you can deliver (almost without limit) up to 2.4V/Cell, which is 14.4V. HOWEVER, you must NOT exceed 14.4V; once you hit that you MUST hold voltage there and allow current to drop (absorption.) Float voltage should be 2.2-2.3v/cell, or 13.2-13.8v.

You'll notice that this is the NORMAL output for a properly-working alternator and regulator; ergo, AGM is perfectly fine in combination with them. The ONE final consideration is that if the battery reaches 120F, ever, charging should be discontinued. No automotive system I'm aware of has a temperature probe but most high-performance "bench" charging systems do.

The problem is that if overcharged, EVER, an AGM will vent since the recombiner's capacity is overwhelmed, pressure rises, and the vent opens to prevent the battery from exploding. IF that happens you're screwed because there's no way to make up the lost water. This should NOT be a concern when it comes to an alternator that is properly working BUT if you have any sort of loose ground or the regulator gets even mildly out-of-whack without an actual voltmeter (e.g. only an "idiot light") you'll never know and it will destroy an AGM quite quickly where all you'll notice with a flooded battery is that it is "using" water. BTW if you let a flooded battery level get below the top of the plates, ever, it is odds-on to internally short at that point and then it's screwed too -- so if you're not paying attention it makes no difference. Oh, and the AGM is much more expensive (about double the price.)

In applications where you need VERY fast charging (well over 1C is perfectly permissible if you can actually deliver the current), you have a regulator that will hold voltage to 14.4V and the battery doesn't go over 120F AGMs are the clear superior choice. They can deliver FAR more current than a flooded cell and thus in very cold weather where cranking amp requirements go WAY up due to cold oil in the engine they'll start the car where others will fail. But they're more expensive (by a lot) and do not tolerate abuse at all.

If I lived where temperatures regularly went below 0F I'd run them in my vehicles because the extra current delivery without voltage sag (and not a little either) would be worth the money. Ditto if I had a need to discharge to 20% of remaining capacity; a flooded battery will be ruined by even a few of those cycles. But I don't live in such a place nor do I have a need to materially discharge my starting batteries in my vehicles, so I don't see the value in that application.

Now on my smaller boat, where I want to sit at the sandbar with the stereo going for a couple of hours, well, different story. There I DO run it down under 50% of remaining charge, I DO want fast recharge when I do that as soon as I crank up the engines, and in addition the non-spillable nature of them is desirable too. In that application I pay the money.
 

Mass. Wine Guy

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That’s an amazingly long reply.

My car started after charging with cables for a few minutes. I can see Jan. 2015 on the battery. Is the warranty period 4 years? If so, I just make it. My mechanic is on vacation. Where can I get a replacement?
 

BobnOH

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May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
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New Beetle 2003 manual
Believe it or not, the dealers are competitive with batteries. Thought theirs were 5 years, pro-rata. Sometimes you can get them to drop the price. Don't trust them to give you the correct battery.
You could try a quick service- Clean the case, top off electrolytes, long trickle charge.
 

turbobrick240

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Nov 18, 2014
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Yeah, seems that way. Apparently batteries aren't a big profit generator for the dealerships. I've had amazingly good performance /longevity from the OEM VW batteries.
 

BobnOH

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May 29, 2004
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central Ohio
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New Beetle 2003 manual
If you are brand particular, you'll want to ask what they got. Last one I bought (4 years ago?) was stamped "Interstate". Others have got different brands, just depends what they carry that week.
 

Genesis

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Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Yeah I found it quite interesting that the VW dealer near me was within a couple of dollars of buying one at any of the parts stores and similar, and since they were going to change it for me (which is all of 5 minutes, but still) at no additional cost, well, why the heck not?
 

BobnOH

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May 29, 2004
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central Ohio
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New Beetle 2003 manual
When I had to get one they were $165 and higher (won't shop walliworld), dealer was $112.
 

P2B

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Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
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2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
Quite a few Canadian ALH owners (myself included) have switched to AGM batteries from Canadian Tire due to bad experiences with the recent crop of mexican-made dealer OEM batteries.

The AGM in the sedan is just over two years old and had no problem starting at -24C (-11F) on Saturday. The previous OEM battery failed miserably at that temperature when it was less than 4 months old, but was fine once it warmed up to -15C (5F).

Simon
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
AGMs:

1. Can deliver more amps, and accept more amps during charging (lower internal resistance -- by quite a lot)
2. Are sealed (non-spillable)
3. Are more-tolerant of deep discharge (to ~20% capacity or thereabouts); ordinary starting batteries will be severely damaged by deep discharge.

but....

4. Are more expensive for equivalent capacity (quite a bit more, frequently double)
5. Are intolerant of being overcharged and will be permanently damaged by it.

Finally, watch out for "spiral cell" batteries as there's a lot of air there and thus while they're nice batteries their amp-hour capacity in a given size (but not maximum delivered amps) tends to be lower. Size matters.
 

jayb79

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May 20, 2000
Location
Exeter,NH
I am in the same boat for diesel, tradition flooded cell batteries have always served me well. I always go for the largest battery possible.
 

Mass. Wine Guy

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May 21, 2001
Location
Ipswich, Massachusetts
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My battery tested as good, according to my mechanic’s test meter. He said that any such cold single digit weather could make any battery fail sometimes. But I’m definitely keeping charger cables in my car.
 
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