should I be concerned, or just ignore it? (blue smoke)

fouillard13

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Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Location
Pincher Creek, AB
TDI
03 Jetta TDI Standard
2 questions here.

1. my car smokes a lot some mornings, blue puffs. but some mornings it doesnt. no idea what makes it smoke. its always different. I also burn around .75L of oil every 5000km. (.25 gallons every 3500miles). is this something I should immediately look into? ive had the car for a year, 50,000 miles, and its basically done it the whole time, so im not overly concerned... just keep er topped up every 2-3 weeks. I was told it could be valve seals... I know on my dirtibke thats a pretty tedious job to replace them. what do you guys figure?

2. glow plugs. im pretty sure I have a bad one according to the VCDS scan I did a few months ago. ordered new glow plugs but im a little busy, and intimidated to put them in TBH, even though they look extremely easy. is this something I should stop putting off and do ASAP? should really only take 20-30 mins to swap them out? basically the same as doing a spark plug?
 

Union

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Dec 2, 2016
Location
North West UK
TDI
A3
1. Something is a little worn or broken inside the engine if its using oil and you don't have a leak. But with the age of your car and the little amount of oil its using I would not worry about it. Although you could get a leak down test done which will determine what is causing the issue.

2. Glow plugs really easy, just like spark plugs to replace. You will need a deep socket and they should be installed with a torque wrench. Try not to let any dirt or oil into the cylinders. If the glow plugs are sat in a pool of oil vachume or mop it up before you remove the plug. Can also put the pistons at TDC and vacume out any dirt that's fallen in. Also if your worried oil has gone into the cylinder you can spin the engine over a few times without glow pluds fitted. It's important with a diesel that no liquid is inside the cylinders as there is little room and it will lock up and maybe damage something. I always put a drop of oil on the glow plug threads as I fit them.

Glow plugs come out to do a leak down test so could be done at the same time.
 

Ol'Rattler

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Jul 3, 2007
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PNA
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2006 BRM Jetta
It may not be burning oil, it probably is jut leaking it. Try snugging your valve cover. Do not over tighten the screws, they are easy to snap off. Most likely the back side of the head just under the VC will be wet with oil.

Just one flaky glow plug will cause a smoky start. Especially in cold weather, That cylinder will smoke because it is not being preheated by the flaky glow plug.

As low as your as your cars miles are, I doubt that a compression test is indicated unless you have drivabilaty issue. I have 175K U.S. miles with out any real issues.

Is it a grease (WVO) car?
 
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KLXD

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Aug 22, 2009
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Lompoc, CA
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'98, '2 Jettas
Do they salt the roads there? Some guys have problems getting the plugs out.

Use some penetrant on the plugs for a while before you remove them. Be careful not to bend them as you apply torque. Use a tee handle or be sure to back up the head of the wrench with one hand and turn with the other. Might take some back and forth to get them out.
 

JB05

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Il.USA
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Pull the lower hose off the IC and see if any oil pours out. Have a container handy just in case.
 

Ol'Rattler

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PNA
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2006 BRM Jetta
Pull the lower hose off the IC and see if any oil pours out. Have a container handy just in case.
I thought about that after I posted. A leaking turbo seal would cause high oil consumption which could lead to a runaway or a hydroloc when the turbo seal fails completly.

What color is unburnt Diesel fuel? white maybe, and not blue?
 
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fouillard13

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Location
Pincher Creek, AB
TDI
03 Jetta TDI Standard
well I had a long response typed and it erased it twice, now im pissed. this one will be short now.

no oil in IC by passenger front wheel when I installed skid plate about a year ago.

no oil is leaking, its def burning. blue smoke, even in the middle of summer. but yet sometimes it wont smoke. no idea what causes it.

yes they salt the roads and yes ill pre soak and vacuum.

unburnt diesel is black smoke isnt it? (rolling coal?)

thanks guys, ill keep you updated
 
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Ranch

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Sep 28, 2016
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midwest
TDI
ALH
well I had a long response typed and it erased it twice, now im pissed. this one will be short now.

no oil in IC by passenger front wheel when I installed skid plate about a year ago.

no oil is leaking, its def burning. blue smoke, even in the middle of summer. but yet sometimes it wont smoke. no idea what causes it.

yes they salt the roads and yes ill pre soak and vacuum.

unburnt diesel is black smoke isnt it? (rolling coal?)
thanks guys, ill keep you updated
Ok, what about your hot side of the turbo? When that seal goes south, the oil doesn't go to the IC.. just out the tailpipe.
LOL.. totally unburnt fuel will be white...
I have a couple tractors that have block heaters towards one end of the block. And even though I can get it started when plugged in, those extreme cylinders will not fire as well as the warmers ones.. takes a minute or two to 'even' out.
and yes, the haze is bluish white. Once warm, it's clear as a bell.
Possible with your glo plug situation you are experiencing the same, or a combination of the turbo seal, and glo plug.

I look at 3 things when diagnosing high oil consumption;
1. obvious leaks
2. quality of blow by *there is a difference in quality and quantity.. But is more related to internal engine damage. (is it a nice smooth flow, or more of a puff-puff-puff.. is it lightly 'colored', or 'heavy' in vapor?)
3. color of exhaust.
You pretty much zeroed in on number 1 and 3.. which is why I'd check/correct the easy stuff first.
 
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Ranch

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midwest
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ALH
no idea. how does a guy check that?
Check the hot side of the turbo?? I usually find it during turbo disassembly.. and oil is found under the turbine wheel. More carbon or soot in the exhaust pipe too. This is on 'other' diesels, and I can't imagine it's any different on VW's.

Sometimes, after shut down, a turbine housing can 'pool' up the residual left in the bearing, probably less than a teaspoon... sometimes the failing seal will relax and drain what is left of the oil in the bearing/ feed line fitting.. and upon restart, it'll snap back to a reasonable seal. I've found when starting a cold engine, and shutting it down before it gets hot enough to burn the oil.. I'll find trails of oil leading out the outlet, downwards in the down pipe. Everything is pretty sloppy on a bad seal on the exhaust side.. until heat burns if all up.

I've heard of some that will disconnect the feed line, and block off the return line, and shoot a little compressed air.. DON'T SHOOT 110 psi air, and blow your seals completely!
10 psi should do the trick. Listen in the turbine outlet for the sizzle of leaking air.
 

fouillard13

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Location
Pincher Creek, AB
TDI
03 Jetta TDI Standard
hmm, interesting. guess I should change the glow plugs ASAP and quit being so lazy/scared to do it and go from there. could be that simple. I hope.

I sure hope its not my turbo and that I need to take the turbo apart to diagnose it! its different everytime, and its just one solid blue cloud on the first start of the day. the rest of the day its clean as a whistle, until I let it sit overnight. BUT, sometimes it doesnt do it at all!! I dont know if a long highway drive then shutting down makes it happen. small town trips then shutting down. cold morning starts, hot morning starts, cycling glow plug lights 2-3 times. sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt, thats what confuses me. ive tried everything. it stinks too.. pretty much like burnt oil. clears up after about 5-10 seconds though. and she definitely burns oil while it drives I assume... how else would I burn nearly 1L every 5000 km? I doubt im burning that much oil just starting it, then having it be fine for the rest of the day.

I will try to get a pic or vid when I can. pretty cold here so im sure all youd see is steam.

there is definitely no leaks on my car. ive been having this problem for over a year. and a bad/weak glow plug for a few months now. I wasnt concerned as it was summer, but now that its getting cold im gonna replace them. theyre sitting in the shop waiting on the shelf.

where exaftly do you find trails of oil when cold starting, then shutting off right away? in my header/exhaust down pipe you mean?

not sure if this matters, but I did send my last oil change in for an oil analysis and it came back very good.

I always let my car cool down for 15-20 seconds before shutting it off. every time. just a habit from the high HP cummins forum guys where they come screaming into their driveway with 800hp and egts around 1600F and shut it off right away, the oil cokes in their turbo hence the reason for turbo timers, so im kinda stuck in that habit too, as well as driving nicely on the last few miles to home, not racing into the driveway full throttle. not sure if that helps or hurts anything.

I will check the IC piping by the passenger front wheel again, as well as replace glow plugs next time im home and let ya guys know what I find, lots of pics, multimeter on the plugs, VCDS etc..

as you can tell, im no master mechanic, and im not very familiar with working on cars (yet)... especially complicated, newish, fancy european diesels with packed engine bays!
 
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Ranch

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Sep 28, 2016
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midwest
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ALH
unfortunately, its when you disconnect the down pipe.. and peer inside. You'll know it's oil.. from the shiny slick slime inside the down pipe.
You are commended on letting the turbo cool down a little before shutting off. :) Hopefully you didn't inherit a problem from PO!!

Worn valve seals/guides, turbo seal, and extremely heavy blow by (which loads the crap out of the intake.... which after shutdown settles down into the port(s) for next start-up).. are main sources of the blue startup cloud.. you already checked for IC loading, so that should be ok.

I just thought of a neat 'sticky' for the 101 section; Perhaps a couple of gifs of what 'normal' smoke looks like.. upon startup. Hot, cold... and perhaps what abnormal looks like too!
 
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Lurker92

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Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Location
Airdrie Alberta
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI, 2002 Golf TDI
Just thought I'd chime in and say mine did something similar and it improved quite a bit with the new glow plugs I just put in. Still smokes a little on first start which is I think is related to my worn/sticking starter not turning as quick as it could.

I'm not far away from you so if you need a hand with anything let me know.
 

fouillard13

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Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Location
Pincher Creek, AB
TDI
03 Jetta TDI Standard
yeah a smoke thread would be nice!

is there a way to check for blow by? on my cummins you just put your hand or a napkin over the oil cap hole, and if air came out, its not looking too healthy.

seems like I really should change the plugs and go from there.. im hoping its that simple! thanks for the offer Lurker, I might just have to take you up on that one day!
 

Lurker92

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Location
Airdrie Alberta
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI, 2002 Golf TDI
I would doubt you have a blowby problem, if you tried that test you would see quite a bit of smoke/oil mist come out and make a mess but it's normal on these cars. If it starts pushing the dipstick out of the tube then you can worry :).

I should also mention that you need to make sure your new glow plugs are the right ones as there has been 3 different ones on our car depending on what recall was done. Also when you do change them, clean out the harness plugs a little bit with a q-tip and alcohol, apply some dielectric grease if you have it too.
 

fouillard13

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Oct 8, 2012
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Pincher Creek, AB
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03 Jetta TDI Standard
good tip on the harness cleaning, will do.

I think I got them from idparts.com but cant find any order history.. hmmm. im pretty sure they are the newest updated ones. im looking into it now.
 

turbovan+tdi

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You don't have an oil burning problem. Less than 1 litre in 5000 km's is nothing. The spec for most OEM's is 1 litre per 1000 km's.
 

fouillard13

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Location
Pincher Creek, AB
TDI
03 Jetta TDI Standard
ok, but the one time I didnt check it for 10,000 km (took only a month to do that much driving). then did an oil change... only 2L came out. supposed to be 4! just seems odd. it runs good otherwise, good mileage, etc..

I have gotten into the habit of checking it more... every 3-5000 km or so ill check, and pour about 1L in.

these are the plugs I got:
http://www.idparts.com/glow-plug-7v-oem-ngk-ceramic-a4-bew-p-2178.html
 

Lurker92

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I check my oil every time I fill up, but then I'm also burning a liter every 3000kms lol, just a good habit incase you get a leak or something imo.

Edit: I misread, those are the new ones so if you can use VCDS to look at your engine module and post the software revision so we can see if you need the 5v or 7v plugs.
 
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turbovan+tdi

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ok, but the one time I didnt check it for 10,000 km (took only a month to do that much driving). then did an oil change... only 2L came out. supposed to be 4! just seems odd. it runs good otherwise, good mileage, etc..

I have gotten into the habit of checking it more... every 3-5000 km or so ill check, and pour about 1L in.
Going to be captain obvious here but you need to check it more than once in 10K, :mad: :p

You should be checking it at least every 1-2000km's, takes a minute and saves blowing an engine, :(
 

fouillard13

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Pincher Creek, AB
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03 Jetta TDI Standard
yeah I know I need to check it more often. just not a habit of mine... last 2 or 3 vehicles were the same every time, never needed topping off, never leaked, never puffed smoke. so eventually I just gave up on checking. the ol jetta though... shes easy on the diesel, but hard on my rotella T6!

good/comforting to hear that others cars also burn oil, and even worse than mine!! I was seriously worried.

just to confirm.... youre driving down the highway, and the engine starts to run away... red line uncontrollably. what do you do to stop it? whats the proper procedure? I just seen the key west thread where the guy panicked and held in the clutch, and they figure thats what ruined his motor (bend rods). I would probably do the same!! clutch in is ALWAYS the first thing you do.
 

fouillard13

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Pincher Creek, AB
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03 Jetta TDI Standard
I check my oil every time I fill up, but then I'm also burning a liter every 3000kms lol, just a good habit incase you get a leak or something imo.

Edit: I misread, those are the new ones so if you can use VCDS to look at your engine module and post the software revision so we can see if you need the 5v or 7v plugs.
I can possibly check this tomorrow.. not sure how long I wanna sit in the cold car at -30 though!

how exactly do I check that/what screenshot on VCDS are you looking for.. ive only used the program once and that was 6 months ago so im a little rusty!

thanks for the help guys. ill continue keeping you all updated. if it wasnt so damn cold id try changing the glow plugs right in the parking lot. ill have to wait till the weekend and I can fit it into the shop.
 

Lurker92

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Lol yeah mine is a routine now, 55L of diesel and 1/3L of oil, always at the bottom of the hash marks and refill to the top of them :(, done it since I got it, pretty sure it has ring /cylinder problems.

I've always kept it in my mind that if the car starts to run away I would turn off the key first, then put it in fifth, clutch out and stand on the brakes.

Yep, way too damn cold out here for that, it can wait for a chinook.

VCDS main screen > Select Control Module > 01 -Engine. It should show your vin etc.. and software revision.
 
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turbovan+tdi

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just to confirm.... youre driving down the highway, and the engine starts to run away... red line uncontrollably. what do you do to stop it? whats the proper procedure? I just seen the key west thread where the guy panicked and held in the clutch, and they figure thats what ruined his motor (bend rods). I would probably do the same!! clutch in is ALWAYS the first thing you do.

Turn the key off, leave it in gear, hammer the brakes. DO NOT push the clutch pedal in.
 

Terrific-In-Tahoma

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Actions to do if while running down highway engine goes runaway

Turn the key off, leave it in gear, hammer the brakes. DO NOT push the clutch pedal in.
I would add the following steps before you step on brakes.

A) put 4 ways - hazard flashers on
B) Pull over from the road SAFELY

C) Turn Key Off
D) Hold onto brakes until engine stalls.
 

turbovan+tdi

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I would add the following steps before you step on brakes.

A) put 4 ways - hazard flashers on
B) Pull over from the road SAFELY

C) Turn Key Off
D) Hold onto brakes until engine stalls.

B) Stay calm as well, :eek:

I've had cars runaway before and kinda freaks you out for a sec but you gotta stay calm. :cool:
 

sisyphus

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I've got a great candidate for a smoker video. Sitting right outside in my driveway right now. I think the smoker thread would be an awesome idea.
 

csstevej

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Do not pull the key out if this happens while driving......locks up the steering wheel....
 

dogdots

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I didn't see how many miles/kms you have on the car but my 02 hot rod Jetta has about 350k miles and smokes blue on startup. It has been heavily modded since the factory warranty expired at 100k miles. The valve guides are pretty soft in these engines, and well worn after 100k miles. Once the guides are out of spec for wear (side deflection of valve stem) the seals go. The TDI makes enough boost to keep engine oil from entering the cylinders during normal driving through shot valve seals, but will leak overnight. On startup the next morning it burns off the oil that has leaked into the cylinders and causes the blue smoke.

I will be pulling my head and replacing the valve guides, seals, and keepers at my next timing belt interval. I will also do a 3 angle valve job while I have the head on the bench.
 
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