Upgrades - Questions and Suggested Order

Where I got my injectors done is in my sig. I think he does Kerma's injectors also. If you think you are going to get most of your upgrades from Kerma, it makes sense to use them for your nozzles (same price) since you can re-tune for free (if you get your tune and any future upgrades from them).
If you are getting a tune from someone else and they don't do nozzles, I would get directly from the person/company that can calibrate them. Either way you shouldn't pay more than you were quoted previously no matter how you go.
I'm not sure about the stages on the 520's relating to a stock clutch, but I was advised to just get stage 1, which I did. Very happy with the diff it made. As in "zoom zoom"! and that is with no tune.

I'm going to weigh in here as a fellow owner of an '02 Wagon, bought new and first tuned in 2003 with 30K on it. Reading your first post you mention white smoke at startup, which is a normal event as valve guide seals wear, if that's what it is. I don't know what you mean by an "rpm catch."

If you've decided to go with Malone then you should ask their advice on what tune and nozzles work well together. Different tuners like different combinations. And although it's likely a tune and nozzles will require an upgraded clutch, some here have managed not to need one right away. I know the OE clutch in my car slipped immediately with Rocketchip stage 3 and PP520s. At the time I replaced it with a G60/VR6 clutch (pretty much what was available back then) which worked fine until I upgraded past its capabilities.

Go ahead and install nozzles when you get the belt done, and you can do the tune later. The car will run fine with a nozzle upgrade alone. It's possible you'll get a bit more smoke, but maybe not. Set the Injection Quantity to 3.0 or higher and you'll probably be fine.

Setup is critical on these cars. Static timing is important: make sure the shop gets the pump, crank, and cam exactly at TDC. It'll make a difference. And have them set the injection timing at the top of the range, 65-70 in block 2 in VCDS. This will help starting and keep smoke down after the nozzles and tune. You've already discussed intake cleaning, but it's pretty irrelevant whether or not you delete the EGR, as most tunes delete the EGR duty cycle so it'll just sit there. And you'll still have the benefit of the anti shudder valve, although I've never particularly worried about that.

If I had mods to do all over again on my car I'd probably had it tuned and stopped there. Maybe nozzles, maybe not. I love how it's set up now, but I still notice I almost never use all the power. Occasionally I'll mat it in 3rd or 4th getting on the highway, but that's about it. My B4 has just a mild tune and I find it plenty quick enough.

Enjoy. I think '02 wagons are the best.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think '02 wagons are the best.

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Why is that?

'02s and '03s are great, but I like the '02 better because it has the shorter rear bumper. And the GL (mine) still came with crank windows in '02. Interior fabric in the '02 GL has a harder finish and doesn't pick up hair and lint like the later fabrics. Minor points, but appealing over time.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think '02 wagons are the best.

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Single Din radio, way better than Double Din!

That, too.

Ok, thanks.

What happened to the burn't car?

Staying off topic, my problem with the single din radio is the power button is not the volume knob. Drives me crazy, but a minor point.

turbovan+tdi said:

Ok, thanks.

What happened to the burn't car?

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Click the "RIP" link in his post.

Hey guys, thanks for the info! Every time someone else jumps on the thread I learn something new!

So the plan:

1. Do timing belt. I've bought the kit, bought VCDS, printed the 126 page article on installation procedure... I also have a new camshaft/sproket to install at the same time. I just need to find a place to rent the tools - I don't really want to buy them. Thoughts?

2. Recalibrate timing (hammer/VCDS)

3. Get my boost/egt gauges installed. I've got all the stuff, just need to do it.

4. Install new clutch (probably SB Daily, stage 2)

5. Re-evaluate the vibration - if it was the clutch, we're good. If not, then double-check the axle job. If not that... well... that sucks.

5. Install Nozzles/Injectors. Adjust the IQ to something over 3.0

6. Drive it a little bit, I may or may not go with the Malone Stage 2 tune - probably, but we will see.

Tint the windows to hide my 18" Infinite Baffle Sub!!!!! (And double-din - if you guys know where to find a cheap center console with the cup holder, let me know!)

Sounds good, but timing is set by positioning the pump sprocket. Hammer mod is for fuel quantity.

Aha! See? I've got to work on getting my terms straight...

So the order makes sense, nothing I should switch around or add to the "list"? Seems like it's in constant flux...

I'd probably wait on the clutch until you have both the nozzles and tune, and see how it goes. Center console with cup holder requires a slight relocation of the parking brake lever or it will bind.

swetbak said:

Click the "RIP" link in his post.

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Durr, thanks, missed that link.

turbovan+tdi said:

Durr, thanks, missed that link.

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That's what happen when a moron drills into a gas tank!

GiGGer said:

That's what happen when a moron drills into a gas tank!

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It happens quite often sadly. A shop around here almost burnt down, he was doing a fuel pump and had the gas tank on a jack, train came by and it fell off, hit the old style trouble light, bulb broke and poof, up the shop went. A body shop went up a few weeks ago, welding outside and the carpet caught fire.

Hey guys - just doing some more reading around and thought I would throw this in here:

The excessive smoke on start up and the rough idle (bounces a couple hundred RPM instead of an easy idle at start up) both went away for a 3-4 days or so when I can of Diesel-Purge (post fuel filter) straight through the engine, afterwards replacing the fuel filter.

This would point to fouled/worn injectors, more than the valve seals/etc, right?

After 3-4 days of smooth start and little/no smoke on start up, the "RPM bouncing/chugging" and higher quantity of smoke at start up came back.

Thoughts?

I had not long ago on my ALH a set of pp764 nozzles and were worn a lot. Plenty of power as they were overfueling/leaking. Start up would be hard, specially when it gets to 5*C or below. I did not notice extreme smoke on startup but it was smoking a lot while driving/flooring it. I replace the nozzles with pp520 and got a huge decrease in performance, while I was expecting a small decrease. That's where I came to the conclusion that these old nozzles (200 000km or more) were shotted. I now regret not putting pp764 back (but new)

How long does the rpm bouncing go on?

Is this only when the engine is cold? Only when sitting for a while?

Well, it "bounces" for 3-5 minutes, then the engine changes sound and become much deeper/harsher/diesel sounding and idles normal.

If I pull away right after cold startup (like this morning), I can have my foot at a constant point of depressing the accelerator pedal, however the engine will not be smooth, it will do the same "bouncing", loosing power, then bringing it back.

After a couple blocks, it goes away. The bouncing isn't major, no head jerking or anything, but it isn't smooth either.

When I am heavy on the gas (after warmed up) there is a bit of black smoke, the engine is entirely stock right now.

I think your Injection Quantity setting may be too low. If you have VCDS or can get access check the IQ. Make sure it's at 2.5 or higher. What you're describing sounds like a version of cold start shudder, more common on '99.5 and 2000 MY cars. Could be a result of injection pump wear.

My IQ might be a little funny - I have a VCDS cable in the mail as we speak, so I'll be able to confirm shortly.

If it were the injector pump "wearing", what would you suggest? The car runs very well after a couple minutes from a cold start. I also have been getting 46-47 mpg in the city, so it seems to be running efficiently (but not as good as UhOh's!!!) : D

Wonder if the balance of the injector could be in problem? let's say one is +2 and one is -2, it can run bad for sure. You would see this in Vagcom also

GiGGer said:

Wonder if the balance of the injector could be in problem? let's say one is +2 and one is -2, it can run bad for sure. You would see this in Vagcom also

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For sure it could be exacerbating things, but that would tend to continue when warm, I'd think.

+2/-2 is the limit. From my little experience in the TDI world problems seem to exist when approaching these bonds, not so much after (I don't think I've seen anyone post any numbers at or beyond these bounds).

I suspect, as suggested above by IBW, that it's an IQ issue. Idle... Starting... Black smoke. All symptoms of low IQ. However, the bouncing around is, I believe, a separate issue, and, as you suggest, this might also be an injector imbalance issue. NOTE: someone else recently had an issue of significant IQ deviation and the problem turned out to be bad compression (like 170 psi) on one cylinder- ECU was doing a lot of work trying to balance things out. Also could involve the CTS and maybe EGR: both, I believe, tend to show problems when cold.

bawward said:

My IQ might be a little funny - I have a VCDS cable in the mail as we speak, so I'll be able to confirm shortly.

If it were the injector pump "wearing", what would you suggest? The car runs very well after a couple minutes from a cold start. I also have been getting 46-47 mpg in the city, so it seems to be running efficiently (but not as good as UhOh's!!!) : D

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Looking forward to seeing what you find with VCDS!

I'm not thinking that your IP is an issue, as you're not encountering any problems once warm.

Need some data! Then we can actually get to the heart of this (speculate less, fix more).

i've got a 1.9 TDI AGR.
now i want to install a GT1749VA with a N75 from a ALH.
could i drive with this without software adjustment?
i'm planning in a few months to swap my ecu to a ALH.

Ok guys. I'm going to do the VCDS tonight. Other than IQ, which numbers/blocks should I be looking for that would be helpful to know, especially as I continue to fine tune this car?

bawward said:

Ok guys. I'm going to do the VCDS tonight. Other than IQ, which numbers/blocks should I be looking for that would be helpful to know, especially as I continue to fine tune this car?

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You're going to be busy!

It's a good idea to just go through everything.

First perform a full scan just to see what codes might be stored. Capture/record and then clear. With codes cleared you can then see what is an on-going issue as you'll get codes coming back (if there's an issue that is detected/detectable).

Then a quick check of your static timing would be good. Although this thread is more than is needed to just check your timing, I'm including it as I believe it's just a great reference (and it will also show you how to check your timing):

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=240450

I think that seeing what your IQ deviations look like would be of importance. Log Group 013 (measuring blocks) at idle.

A good guide for looking at all around performance (this will keep you busy):

http://malonetuning.com/guides/vagcom/vagcom_logging_guide.pdf

Thanks for the info UhOh, I aspire to meet or beat your 50mpg : D

I'll post what I find as soon as I can.

Hey guys, just a thought - I'm wanting to do the timing belt replacement, maybe this weekend.

Should I go through all the VCDS stuff first, get everything "Adjusted", etc FIRST or do the timing belt, THEN do all the charting//blocks/etc?

I'm considering buying the Metalnerd timing kit because I plan on doing at least one more replacement in the future, and at that point the cost would be the same (and you can't sell a part you rented) - Anyone want to sell their kit?

Thanks!