17" winter tires on fat fives, 225/45R17 or 205/50R17 for my MK4 Jetta

blizzak

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Oct 7, 2007
Location
Waterloo, Ontario
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2004 Jetta TDI Sport Edition, Grey, 446K KM
[FONT=courier new,monospace]Hey all,

I was looking to get some advice for 17" winter tires for my car. I picked up some fat five rims (5x100, 21.5 lbs each, 7.5 inch rim width) and have been checking out tires. I'm likely going to get tires off tirerack since they have the best prices. I mostly want something that's reasonably balanced between highway/dry pavement/snow/ice but can still deal with roads in northern Ontario (we can get some snow up here eh!). Here's what I'm considering:[/FONT]



The main reason for 17's is because of my R32 front brakes; can't fit anything smaller on there. Also have coilovers, GLI front lip and skirt kit...it's gonna be a fun winter!

Now, I'm trying to figure out which size/profile would be best for my car. I know that skinnier winter tires are better in snow and there certainly seem like some attractive options in the 205/50 profile. Is there really any reason to think that the 225/45's would be better? I'm not concerned about ultimate handling on dry pavement and I feel like with the 205's cutting through handling may actually be increased over the 225's with snow on the ground. The increase in sidewall height is rather small but who knows, maybe it would save me a dented rim or flat on a pothole. To that point, could a specific load rating be better for winters on a MK4 Jetta? Also, I'm not too concerned about price but some of the 205's come out a fair bit cheaper for sure.

If anyone is running these sizes of winter tires, let me know what your thoughts are in comparing the two. Given my suspension, ride height, etc is there a huge reason I should be considering one or the other? I'd love to debate the tires in the list above specifically based on their tread, performance in various conditions, but I don't want that to be what this thread is about. I've done a lot of research and am pretty close to knowing what I want to buy, just the size left.

Thanks in advance!
 

sprstu

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Sep 6, 2005
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Minneapolis, MN
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mk1 TD, GSW TDI 6spd
General Arctics FTW.
I run WinterForce right now on my Golf and they are really good in the snow but lack a bit on dry pavement. The tread wear is really good though, lots of miles without significant lose. When I upgrade from my WinterForce I will move into the Generals. Not only for the great value, but they are an amazing tire, rumor is they were developed with Nokian and we all know the Hakkepellata (no idea how to spell it) is the best snow tire ever made.

I would run the 205/50. The "loss" of dry traction will be more than made up for by the gains in snow traction. A 205 is still wider than the stock 195 that the mk4 came with. I think it may look a little worse given the size of the tire and the exterior mods you have mentioned, but the overall safety and driveablity benefits outweigh the looks and style of the 225. I dont think it will have a much different profile height, seeing as the revolutions per mile are about the same I think you will find that they are very similar in sidewall height.
 
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blizzak

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Oct 7, 2007
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Waterloo, Ontario
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2004 Jetta TDI Sport Edition, Grey, 446K KM
Winterforce eh? That's not one of the tires I was looking at, but good to know. The generals do seem pretty well regarded around here though I'm not sure what sizes people are running. The main negatives I see with the generals are the speed rating (though I wouldn't dream of driving that fast in the winter anyways) and the fact that they're a studdable tire instead of a studless. Somewhere I read someone say that studdable tires are harder around the spots where the studs go in therefore a studless tire (given the same tread) should give you better overall grip since it's generally softer. Since I'm not planning on using studs I'd probably rather get a studless. Also, what's with the weight on the 225 generals - 29 lbs a piece? That's a lot more than any of the others and doesn't seem proportional to the 205's. Not saying it's a bad thing, just strange is all.

Dug deeper and found some threads on other forums regarding the 205/225 issue specific to 17's:

Another Snow Tire Question - 225/45/17 or 205/50/17?

Winter tires - 225/45/17 vs 205/50/17

225/45 dry vs 205/50 winter

205 or 225 for winter tires ???

Winter tires - 225/45R17 vs 205/50R17

The general consensus is that the 205's will have the best grip when conditions get bad and allow for straighter tracking when going highway speeds on snow/slush. Also, the 205's will be better as the tread starts to wear more so they'll last longer and be safer longer. The 225's may be better for performance driving and should be able to handle less aggressive conditions fine. 225's should also be able to handle more power, though I don't imagine it would be a problem with my car (not quite 200 HP and shouldn't be using all the power too often :)).
 
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turbocharged798

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Ellenville, NY
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99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Aside from the tires, that's a pretty bad setup you got there for winter. You want high ride height and narrow tires, exactly opposite you have. 225s are going to be horrible in the snow.
 

TDIJetta99

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Port Jervis, New York, USA
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03... Faster than yours =]
225/45R17 is the correct size for the fat 5's.. The 205/50's will give you the "stretched" look.. I know this from experience.

I have a set of 225/45R17 Cooper Weathermaster's on fat 5's and they work really well for 17's in the snow.. If you want REAL snow traction, get some 15" wheels and run 195's..
 

nkgagne

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Kitchener, Ontario Canada
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2015 Sportwagen 6M, 2006 Golf GLS TDI (sold)
My little dust up with a stray trailer tire taught me how blessed I am to have cheap steelies. I'd look for 17" steelies, personally. Shod them with Continental ExtremeWinterContacts and enjoy. As covered, you may still float over loose snow/slush with the wide section.
 

blizzak

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Location
Waterloo, Ontario
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2004 Jetta TDI Sport Edition, Grey, 446K KM
[FONT=courier new,monospace]Hey all, thanks for the replies.

[/FONT]
Aside from the tires, that's a pretty bad setup you got there for winter. You want high ride height and narrow tires, exactly opposite you have. 225s are going to be horrible in the snow.
[FONT=courier new,monospace]
tc798, I know my winter setup isn't ideal and it probably is a tad low. At least I have a metal skidplate; it may be worth it for me to start looking into swapping the suspension sooner than later, I haven't enjoyed the coilovers so much since owning the car (less than 4 months). Quite blunt there about the 225's, I am leaning towards the 205's myself anyways and think they'll definitely be better but I wouldn't say the 225's would be horrible, they're still winter tires.

[/FONT]
225/45R17 is the correct size for the fat 5's.. The 205/50's will give you the "stretched" look.. I know this from experience.

I have a set of 225/45R17 Cooper Weathermaster's on fat 5's and they work really well for 17's in the snow.. If you want REAL snow traction, get some 15" wheels and run 195's..
Thanks for the thoughts and the personal experience. I appreciate the comments on the fat 5's but I disagree that 205's will give the stretched look. 205 mm is 8.07 inches so you'd figure they'd be alright on a 7.5 inch rim, also 7.5 is in the rim width range defined for those tires. Any greater and I'd admit the rims are too wide for them. Heck, the previous owner of these rims had them on a MK3 VR6 with 205/40's and there's no noticeable stretch (at least not in my opinion; I've seen some pretty wild stretch before):




Since I'm looking at 50 series tires there is more sidewall thus they should fit even better than those. I can't do 15's unless I get rid of the R32 brakes, and since I already have these fat 5's, might as well run'm!

My little dust up with a stray trailer tire taught me how blessed I am to have cheap steelies. I'd look for 17" steelies, personally. Shod them with Continental ExtremeWinterContacts and enjoy. As covered, you may still float over loose snow/slush with the wide section.
I dunno, personally I think I'd rather spend a bit more and run something tough. Given fat 5's are forged, I'd imagine they're hella strong and tougher than steelies. Not to mention they look good! I know stuff is more well hidden during the winter with snow on the ground which makes things more dangerous, but a flat tire is a flat tire. What ended up happening in your case, steelie broke/bent?

I do agree with you though on the ExtremeWinterContacts; I like them in the 205/50 the best out of any of those (
225/40 not in stock on tirerack).
 

blizzak

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2004 Jetta TDI Sport Edition, Grey, 446K KM
I ended up going with the Continental ExtremeWinterContacts, 205/50R17. Just under $560 shipped from Tirerack; phoned in the order and got them shipped down to a UPS store in Boston near where I'll be for work next week.

As an appendix to a lot of of research, here's my anecdotal summary of the tires in the above chart:

Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D: Very good in most conditions while still being more of a performance winter tire.
Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3: Very good in cold conditions on dry pavement and decent on snow/ice, but some have claimed they can be outright dangerous in deep snow.
Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3: Seem somewhat midrange but comfortable. My sister had them on her Saab 93 and they seemed pretty decent. Good on the highway but city starts and stops left something to be desired.
General Altimax Arctic: Very good for the price and well reviewed, but seem less performance oriented (more squirmy in corners). May have weak sidewalls.
Continental ExtremeWinterContact: Nice riding and quieter than most winter tires. Good in deep snow despite the tread not looking overly aggressive.

Already talked about the Generals, they seem good and have deep tread but I'm not sure about their comfort and noise. I'm a huge fan of Michelins, but neither of those tires is really piquing my interest, given my previous experience driving on Primacies and the reviews I've read on the Pilots. There's a lot of good reviews out there about the Dunlops, some swear by their dry performance and say that they're awesome in deep snow where others say they're not as good in deep snow. Given that these are more performance oriented, I do think some folks may be running the wider tread variety. Which leaves the Continentals (tirerack doesn't have stock of the 225's). Speed rating of T, well reviewed and smooth and apparently quite good on snow and ice.

The Conti's seemed like a steal at $516.
 
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rockwood

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Jan 20, 2011
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San Diego
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2000 Jetta TDI
[FONT=courier new,monospace]Hey all, thanks for the replies.
[/FONT]Thanks for the thoughts and the personal experience. I appreciate the comments on the fat 5's but I disagree that 205's will give the stretched look. 205 mm is 8.07 inches so you'd figure they'd be alright on a 7.5 inch rim, also 7.5 is in the rim width range defined for those tires. Any greater and I'd admit the rims are too wide for them. Heck, the previous owner of these rims had them on a MK3 VR6 with 205/40's and there's no noticeable stretch (at least not in my opinion; I've seen some pretty wild stretch before):
Depends on the tire. If you look at the tread width, those 205s are in the 7" (+/- 0.1") range, which is narrower than the wheel. The sidewall width will work, but the shoulders will cant in a little because the actual tread isn't as wide as the wheel.

BTW, I know you already got them, but DiscountTireDirect.com is usually cheaper by the time they get to you. Tire Rack charges shipping, Discount doesn't (though being in Canada may change that).
 

TDIJetta99

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May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
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03... Faster than yours =]
I've been getting my tires locally for a while.. my local guys seem to be about the same $$ as tire rack and discount tire after mounting/balancing, so in the end it's cheaper for me..
 

flatlanded

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Aug 1, 2009
Location
Saskatchewan
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2002 Jetta
You won't be dissapointed with the conti's. They tested better than the Blizzak, X-ice, and hakkapeliitta's. I wanted some... but every place I checked said they've been on backorder since June and they didn't know when they'd be in. So I went with some Hakkapeliitta's I picked up for a good price.

Pretty good so far.
 
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