2011 Stage 2 TDI - Gutless, lots of boost, lower EGTs, quieter, no codes??

Hello all,

Car is a 2011 Jetta TDI 6MT, Malone Stage 2 tune, Buzzken exhaust.

Car has been tuned for about 10,000km now. Three weeks ago car started knocking when driven cold, I was thinking this was an injector on it's way out, then the car started hesitating under acceleration, this was intermittent.

Usually if I warm the car up for 2-3 minutes, there will be no knocking, but still intermittent hesitating when accelerating while the car is warming up. But the car is gutless, I'll look down at my boost gauge pulling a slight hill and it's at 20+ psi and the car is not accelerating much at all. Other noticeable things are significantly lower EGTs, the car is also way quieter under the same load/boost/rpm etc, it used to rattle my brains and now it is not loud at all. What is going on? No codes whatsoever, I'll get to injectors in the next paragraph.

Injector Deviations when cold:

1: -0.24
2: -0.05
3: 0.0
4: 0.26

Injector Deviations when at operating temp:

1: 0.42
2: 0.0
3: -0.28
4: -0.21

So the injectors seem to be healthy, I checked idling fuel pressures and they seem to be in spec.

While the car was being warmed up (60 degree celsius coolant) and driven gently, these were the greatest deviations I saw on my log:

1: 0.14
2: 2.34
3: -1.53
4: -0.99

Are these deviations okay?^

I put a new fuel and air filter on 2500 kms ago, no signs of HPFP failure in the fuel filter canister. Any ideas as to what's going on? What sensors should I look at/clean/replace? I wish it would throw a code.

Thank you for any input, I have VCDS so if there are any more tests I can do please enlighten me and I will post results.

Have a great day!

Call your tuner.

#1 EGT is probably fried

Yeah I will run it by Malone, it's such a weird issue.

The pre-turbine EGT still functions, but is it possible that it is reading lower values? I imagine if it was out of it's voltage range it would throw a code?

Post recall? group 099 changed up, another thing you can try is plug in a spare egt sensor into the orange or black plug to see if anything changes

Which recall are you referring to? Also I'm not familiar with group 099. Thanks

I agree about the EGT sensor. Mine would max out at around 470°C and it was causing some issues. I think its group 99.

Go to advanced measuring blocks in VCDS and check the box for exhaust temp prior to turbo. Group 99.

Take a ride with a couple wide open throttle pulls and see what the EGT's are. I knew my sensor was bad because it would get to 473°C and flatline which showed it was shot.

I always monitor my EGTs quite closely, but just logged some pulls with VCDS to make sure I wasn't missing anything. The EGT sensor seems to be working fine, logged as low as 90 degrees C (downhill in gear), and as high as 756 degrees C, no concerning spikes or flatlining. I really had to work the car to reach 750 degree C, in the past I would often have to downshift out of 6th pulling hills to keep it below 750C, and in the current state I had to really work to get that hot. So I still believe the EGTs are running cooler than they used to, and the car still feels gutless. It builds tons of boost really quickly, just doesn't transfer it into power..??

So my biggest concern is the cold knocking, and from what I've read this is often a bad injector. If I drive the car between 25-30 degree C coolant the engine will knock bad, and then I'll pull over and let it warm up. If I give it a few minutes and drive away gently between 35-45 degree C coolant it will often knock briefly around 1800 rpm and then smooth out, and then sometimes knock again as I'm bring the RPM up in the next gear.

Once the car is warm there is never an issue, even starting the car midday at 50 degree C coolant it has never knocked.

Does the +/-2.8 injector deviation threshold also hold true for driving the car cold? I'll do some more logging tomorrow morning when the car knocks and see what the injector deviations are doing.

As per my first post, these are the greatest injector deviations I saw during warmup of the car.

1: 0.14
2: 2.34
3: -1.53
4: -0.99

Is 2.34 and -1.53 something to be worried about? Could that much deviation cause a knock?

Any recommendations? Thanks for all your input thus far.

Yes those are fairly large deviations. Clean in the filter housing right? I'd start with some fuel additive. Try to stick to petro can/shell/esso or the most common big diesel pump, have heard of a few injector and pump failures around BC lately.

Hey Owain, yes the filter housing was clean 2500 kms ago, I'll probably have another look tonight. I have been running a ton of Stanadyne Lubricity, and some Howe's injector cleaner the last two tanks. I always fill up at Husky or Shell.

This car is all over the map though. This morning for 15 minutes the car felt like it had it's power back, exhaust was louder and EGTs were hotter like it used to be. But the car is hesitating/stuttering under heavy acceleration. Still no codes

You'll need to data log boost and fuel to get an idea of how it's running, these motors do not throw codes very easily for that, and when it's fuel related it's usually too late. Feel free to shoot us an email and I can send you some PIDs for vcds.

Hey everyone, here's a quick update, and a question about Accelerator Pedal Position versus boost.

Car still knocks cold, logged the knocking and saw no real deviations in injectors, came to a stop at 27 degree C coolant and the car was shaking with a rough idle, and saw:

Injector 1: 0.02
Injector 2: 0.96
Injector 3: -0.96
Injector 4: -0.07

This is within spec, but could these deviations cause the car to idle rough and shake the car? I still think the knocking is related to the injectors, but I logged the car this morning while the car knocked taking off cold and there were no deviation spikes.

2nd Question: The car still feels pretty gutless and pegs the boost gauge with ease climbing pretty slight hills. So I logged accelerator pedal position with boost, I'm not that familiar with the tuning specifics so please bear with me.

I saw up to 20 psi (actual boost) at 55-60 % throttle position, does that sound excessive? I'll try and post a link to my log in a minute.

https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/...DjG1/ccKkPMOJw7rCvcOkwo/DohvDmgrCosOxwqgAAAA=

I apologize for it being so long, I split it a few times to zoom in. For a car that maxes out at 26 psi, 20 psi @ 55-60 % throttle position feels excessive to me. I'm just trying to figure out why the car is so gutless.

I got spanked by an E Golf the other day so I really have to figure out what is wrong with this car.

lindenladouceur said:

https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/...DjG1/ccKkPMOJw7rCvcOkwo/DohvDmgrCosOxwqgAAAA=

I apologize for it being so long, I split it a few times to zoom in. For a car that maxes out at 26 psi, 20 psi @ 55-60 % throttle position feels excessive to me. I'm just trying to figure out why the car is so gutless.

I got spanked by an E Golf the other day so I really have to figure out what is wrong with this car.

Click to expand...

What you are seeing in VCDS is absolute pressure: your actual boost PLUS ~14.5psi of atmospheric.

So subtract 14.5 to get your actual boost.


Why didn't you give it 100% throttle?

Under regular measuring blocks, log 011, 099, 042 and post that up. Full throttle, 2000rpm to 4000rpm at least.

Enabled said:

What you are seeing in VCDS is absolute pressure: your actual boost PLUS ~14.5psi of atmospheric.

So subtract 14.5 to get your actual boost.


Why didn't you give it 100% throttle?

Click to expand...

Yes I'm aware that VCDS reports boost + atmosphere. If you look at the log closely, there are lots of instances where the throttle position is 55-60% and absolute pressure is ~35 psi (subtract 14.5 psi = ~20 psi actual boost).

JFettig said:

Under regular measuring blocks, log 011, 099, 042 and post that up. Full throttle, 2000rpm to 4000rpm at least.

Click to expand...

I'll dig through my logs so far and see if I have those parameters logged, honestly I'm pretty nervous to go WOT with this car as it is running so poorly and inconsistently. I'll see how it's running tomorrow.

https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/...CiWl1wq3DiyzDnsKswr/Dh8O4AcK6wojDncKIwpMAAAA=

Can't remember what measuring blocks 011 and 042 are off the top of my head. Here is a link to a WOT pull a few days ago, first pull through the gears was probably 85% throttle, second pull was WOT. I'll see what I can do tomorrow with the measuring blocks you posted, and it sort of depends on how the car is running. Thanks for your input!

011 is boost request, actual, N75. 042 is wideband O2 (lambda).

Wow I didn't know the CJAA was that bad with EGTs. I know people say it's a limiting factor, but wow, haven't seen it like this.


In testing of my own CR tuning (on the BMW, however; same fueling system, but everything else is different), I usually hit max 620 deg C on full sustained throttle from 0 to 90 or 100mph. I tried to no avail to get it to go higher than 650.

JFettig said:

011 is boost request, actual, N75. 042 is wideband O2 (lambda).

Click to expand...

Here is a WOT pull I did this evening, not a great one because the highways are so busy, I'll try and get a better pull tomorrow when I head up north.

https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/...CmxHDtGBcwpVUw5bChcKHU0/Dln4Bw7kefMK2wrQAAAA=

To me nothing appears to be wrong with this data, but definitely curious on your thoughts. Is the O2 sensor Lambda suppose to stay @ 1.6%? Car still feels pretty gutless and is quiet in the cab. Caught a rough/bumpy idle while I was monitoring the injectors and saw +/- 1.40 on Cyclinder 2 and 3 injectors. Maybe my HPFP is failing, I'll inspect the fuel filter in a day or two or whenever I have time.

Once again thanks for your time!

What gear was this in?

Lambda not 1.6% but look at the value that goes from .9 to 25.4, 1=14.5 AFR

I see nothing wrong with the log, the only improvement I can see is when you step on it, it could use more fuel and it would feel a little stronger.

I missed the injector deviations in the first post - yeah that is pretty bad.

Can you try another log, 011, 142, 099 - same thing, 3rd gear 2000rpm to 4000rpm or wider. If you don't know when your fuel filter has been replaced last, replace it.

group 142 is cylinder pressure, maybe even do a few second log of 142 at idle as well.

JFettig said:

I see nothing wrong with the log, the only improvement I can see is when you step on it, it could use more fuel and it would feel a little stronger.


group 142 is cylinder pressure, maybe even do a few second log of 142 at idle as well.

Click to expand...

X2, looks like it has a tiny bit of room for more fuel, but if you'll be driving it hard in the interior this summer probably safe to leave it as is, or dial back a little down low to add some more up top.

Might see something in 142, if it's off a bit then you're probably close to throwing codes for torque differences. I've seen that pop up before injector codes on several cars that needed injectors.

Welcome to pop by sometime, I'm often in North van and towards whistler data logging on weekends too. Could dyno it but sounds like it's an intermittent problem.

https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/...CscO2S0TCkVRFw5IWSVfDnsO5w6jDujfDgMOFLENVAQAA

Here is 011, 141, and 099. So I assume the Cylinder 2 pressure sensor is failing?

Injector deviations seem pretty bad today even once the car is warmed up.

Fuel filter has 3000km on it, but I will be pulling it tonight to inspect.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showfull.php?photo=127787



This is after ~4300 km on a new filter, some of it was sand/debris, but definitely some metal.

Could the faulty pressure sensor in #2 be causing any fueling issues? Again weird that it's not throwing a code. I don't think its the glow plug/pressure sensor, but the glow plug connector because I've had it off so many times. I'll do some wiggling and post an update soon.

Rough deal, can only hope for the best. Aurelian (macrad) has pumps, brought a couple in recently and PG fitted one, runs great.

Glow plug/pressure sensor shouldn't affect power.

So that much metal obviously means the pump is on it's way out? What do you recommend I do? HPFP and injectors? Is Aurelian a distributor? I couldn't find anything on Google.

It would suck to have to do the entire fuel system if it really grenades, but I have to leave town in a few days to head up north. I'll try and keep an eye on how much metal it's producing in the filter.

You better stop driving it altogether before its fully fixed otherwise it will be a very costly exercise.... ££££

Hello all, quick update and yet another question:

I've put on about 3000 km since I left Squamish, the car still runs very poorly when cold (knocks, stumbles/hesitates), but appears to be running 100% once warmed up to operating temperature. I checked the fuel filter around 2000 km ago and there were more metal flecks.

Can someone help me understand why the car runs fine once warmed up? It is my understanding that small metal particles from the HPFP are getting into the injectors and causing misfueling which results in the knocking and hesitating, but why is this only the case when the car is cold? I just drove 10.5 hours back to Squamish and once I'm on the highway I forgot about how big of a POS this car is.