Racing / auto crossing TDIs

Owain@malonetuning

Associate Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Location
Vancouver
TDI
PD jetta wagon
Only 2833?? I thought they were 300 over that, minus 100 for seat + tire + battery, and probably another 100 between sunroof and wheels. What did the corner weights look like?

I'm supposed to be leaving this car alone so it's reliable :rolleyes:
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I forget the corner weights, but it was heavy on the driver's front and passenger rear. Wasn't a lot they could do about it. Driver and fuel tank location were obstacles. But the light battery did help.

I got my '99.5 Golf down to about 2,400 with the interior, A/C, and airbags removed.
 
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CNGVW

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
TDI
Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
Who ever said you can not balance a vw just has no clue .
We adjust the beetle for every race
For WG
we run
LF 897 RF 871
LR 520 RR 496
We are 50% for cross weight LF/RR
and come in at 2700 race grid ready driver and fulls of fuel .
Just check out my YouTubes on ho to do it.



That's funny. I didn't know that.

For a couple seasons I'd take the rear seat and spare out of the car, had a Braille (12 lb) battery, and had it corner balanced, which was nearly impossible. Jetta Wagons weren't designed to be corner balanced, I learned. The car weighed 2,833 lbs. as shown. Being a GL with no sunroof and crank windows helped. And with 184/315 at the wheels it was pretty quick.

I only went to Mosport once, and it was in my '99.5 Golf TDI with a chip only. Kinda boring as the straight is very long and uphill. Evos were hitting 145 on that straight. I wasn't.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I'm guessing a Beetle and a Jetta Wagon aren't the same. I never had any problem balancing the Golf. Same shop.
 

CNGVW

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
TDI
Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
It just takes time and some skill and can it be be adjusted ?
must have a way to adjust spring height or swap springs, a wagon will just read different .
 

WrEkkED

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Location
Toronto
TDI
'04 TDI Sport
Do you find the crappy geometry of the solid beam axle can be overcome with proper weighting? Or does it not really make that much of a difference having the sold beam?
 

CNGVW

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
TDI
Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
Do you find the crappy geometry of the solid beam axle can be overcome with proper weighting? Or does it not really make that much of a difference having the sold beam?
I reinforce it big time so it is a real solid beam, you do not want a wheel steering it self at any point. you must make shore it is not bent first they all bend.
I run top line shocks and make up rear spring adjuster on top and in to the car from a stock car products.
I convent bisen A8 front struts with coil over adjusts on so I can jack weight a round .
I run no sway bars on my car and run light spring all a round it.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Rear beam is fine. The real challenge in these cars is front grip. That's where it's important to get geometry right.
 

CNGVW

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
TDI
Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
Peter bring up a good point geometry and i have spent many winters on the VW plate form to get it right
Below is the roll center of my car kind of stock

after over 40hr of testing and I got the roll center to 3.9 at race height witch was the magic number for us at WG
how you check bump steer
 

shepner

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
2015 Golf TDI
Rear beam is fine. The real challenge in these cars is front grip. That's where it's important to get geometry right.
So I have a vague idea of what the roll center is, why its important, etc from looking it up online and most of my wheel alignment knowledge is somewhat better. While this is stuff that I can go spend the time reading more about, what Im not sure of is how to translate any of that into actual changes to my car. Would you guys mind going into a bit of detail about that? In particular, what actually can be done to a (my) '15 Golf while keeping it in Stock class? :D

stephen
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
You'll have to look at the rules for your organization (club, SCCA, whatever) to see what you're allowed to do. Most rules prohibit changes in sway bars, for example, in stock classes. And you usually can use better dampers, but not swap springs or install coilovers.

If you want to stick with stock I would probably do two things, if allowed. First, get some better shocks than stock. Bilstein HDs, Koni Yellows, something like that. And I would see how much negative camber you can get in the front suspension. Camber plates or spherical bearings will allow more camber, but may not be considered stock. If not, you can at least have an alignment shop pull as much negative camber into the front suspension as possible. It would be great to get to -3 degrees, but even -1 will help turn in and grip while not wearing tires unevenly.

The single best thing you can do is buy a set of dedicated racing slicks and light wheels. Night and day on the track. People (including me) usually do other work to the car before spending money on wheels and tires, but they can make a huge difference. Tires get expensive: I had a set of Hoosier slicks on my wagon and they lasted 12 hours on the track. But you won't believe the difference they make.
 

shepner

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
2015 Golf TDI
The SCCA Solo rules are the most restrictive for what I'm doing. I can change the struts (now Bilstein B6) and and change the material in the strut mount (now a bit stiffer then OEM) but can't change/modify the springs (now back to OEM). I can change 1 swaybar (now neuspeed 25mm in rear). I forget if I can change the bushings. The biggest problem I've run into is that while the rules do permit changing the alignment, the car only has adjustments for the front toe and the rules don't permit changing the size of the holes so I'm kinda stuck there. Wheels have been changed to the lightest/widest/max offset permitted and have the RE-71 tires (can't goto slicks) which are night and day different (and wear at a distressingly fast rate). I've found the what seems to be the sweet spot for front/rear pressures so each tire is wearing as evenly as you can expect under the conditions. That said, the front left is still loosing material faster then the front right which makes me think some weight somehow needs shifted to the right rear

What are the spherical bearings?

stephen
 

CNGVW

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
TDI
Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
You can slot the lower ball joint bolt holes to get bit more and as I reread it no bigger holes! so you can machine the bolts for ball joint and the lower control arm front mount this lets you slide it out.
run with out sway bar . to test just un bolt one link at the track. when you can corner like this you are getting close 2016 NH Lemon in start of the race 4 laps went from 60th to 4th
and stayed there for 2 hrs. this years set up is 10X better.
 
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shepner

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
2015 Golf TDI
so you can machine the bolts for ball joint and the lower control arm front mount this lets you slide it out.
run with out sway bar . to test just un bolt one link at the track
That's an idea...How much worry is there about the bolts breaking? Are you suggesting no sway bars at all?

stephen
 

TheFawkingHux

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Location
Connecticut
TDI
Mk3 Golf CL
Front control arms parallel to ground is a must.

Rear beam is fine, seemed to do perfectly fine for the racing Minis for the past 50 years.
 

3L3M3NT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Location
Sturgeon Bay, WI
TDI
04 Jetta GLS TDI, 04 RTDI
That's an idea...How much worry is there about the bolts breaking? Are you suggesting no sway bars at all?
stephen
He's suggesting that you disconnect your front sway bar to see how the car handles without it. If you like how it handles keep it that way and if you don't like how it handles, just reconnect the sway bar.
 

CNGVW

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
TDI
Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
OK I will share with you what years of real racing we have learned to work on the DRVOLKS.com Beetle .
Below is the car with many round of testing and retesting an make up the parts as we go.the roll center as it is now!

to get it to this point one of the biggies add on was the tall lower ball joint

I am working with other Chump VW teams to test what I have found to work.
below is the work that had to be done to get the roll center to work. and my drivers are all real race car drivers not want to be,s so the feed back on it from all drivers at WG is is was the best handling car they had ever driven!!!
Ok I would gladly help
The ball joints are from Speedway parts but the screw tube bottoms to weld on your lower A frames
make shore you check your camber and the axle because you can pull the axles out of the inner cup.
Buy the reamer that matches the taper .
You must mock up the rotor and hub tight and machine the lower ball joint hole off center so that the ball joint screw tube dos not hit the rotor. and recheck after you are done with no springs to make shore the ball joint do not hit the rotors as the swing up/down
How I did it was take the spindle mount it in the brige port with the old ball jount hole at the top and the top of the spindle that the strut gos through is pulled tight to the table the angle was just about right. You may need to shim and use a end mill to punch it off center a bit. it will not follow the stock hole angle . start small and use the reamer with a hand drill so just the bottom thread is below the finished hand grinded part after I was done I had to hand grind the part where the nut pulled down to clear the nut and at a 90deg to the ball joint and cut the top of the ball joint sticking up from hitting the CV joint
I used TT lower control arms forged .
If you give me all the measurement as in the rollcenter jpg i will do the math for you. or just buy his program
I had to cut off 1 inch of the top of the sub frame too this point was 40 HR
I run no sway bars
Then you will need to do bump steering fix after all this work read up on that
What I had to do 19 hr later is cut the bottom of the rack 3/8 and cut the tie rod end off the spindles and swap left for right and weld them up 5/8 of a inch up.
below is the car with is new rubber 275/40/17 on 9.75 rims all corners

This is as I know the biggies tire ever put on a VW plate form like mine that really races and it worked.
Bob Mann
 

shepner

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
2015 Golf TDI
Good stuff! Thanks everyone. Lots to dig through and try. Taking an earlier cue, I ordered a ball joint to play with which I need to pick up tonight.

>275/40/17 on 9.75 rims all corners
and you can still turn the wheel? ;)

While Im not intending to go anywhere that extreme with this car but I would like to be able to know how to determine this stuff for myself for when I finally can have a dedicated race car. Which software package is that for the suspension? I know that there are several out there. Any real pros/cons to any of them? For stuff like spring rate, are you measuring that or is there someplace that you can look it up? Related, does VW actually publish stuff like that anywhere? It doesnt seem to be in the shop manuals. Gear ratios are another one I was looking for and couldnt find. I kinda miss that from the old Bentley manuals.

stephen
 

Tikra

Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Location
Holland
TDI
Passat 3C, polo 6N
Guts - is there anyone out here to help me with my polo setup?
I can hear you saying "POLO"? Yes, we planted an AFN 1997 tdi into our 11/1997 Polo 6N1open air (slightly 850 kilo heavy). Todays setup is 143 hp with original injectors and original turbo which speed us up within seconds above 205 km/h - with power left but to high in rpm and causing fast increase of temperature.
We use the original 02A CYP transmission.
The future looks like:
Different map sensor, 200hp, race520 nozzles from fratelli bosio (it), turbo either from the audi 2.5 or kkk04.
Still will keep us with the 5th gear....
Advices are welcome:
Configure my own transmission fitting in the 02A housing? What do you suggest? Only 5th gear exchangement? I have 4 mm left in the motorcompartimment so expansion to 6th gear is no possibility....
Brakes actual G60 front ... polo gti back.
Suspension to be considerd (any suggestions for street and weekend track setup?)
Cheers and thank you guys for helping us out....
Helge
 
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TheFawkingHux

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Location
Connecticut
TDI
Mk3 Golf CL
I've always had great performance out of Bilstein struts and H&R springs. Handle beautifully and drop it tastefully without being stupidly low, I've had it on three mk2s and two mk3s. The only reason I have Koni coilovers on my Golf right now is it came with them and the bushings are still good. That and I have tuition to pay for, so it's either a class or a cup kit ?
 

CNGVW

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
TDI
Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace

adamsjeremy93

New member
Joined
Aug 8, 2017
Location
Virginia
TDI
2006 Jetta Tdi DSG
I race my Daily driver 2006 Jetta Tdi BRM DSG. I attend HDPE, time attack and autox. I am in the SMF class for time attack and autox. Mods are 2006 VW Jetta TDI
- GTB1749V Turbo
- PD150 Injectors
- Stage 2 Colt Cam
- 3 Inch Turbo Back Exhaust
- Malone Custom Stage 4 custome Tune
- DSG Stage 1 Tune
- BFI Stage 1 engine trans and dogbone mounts
- TyrolSport Deadset Rigid Subframe Collar Kit
- 034 Track Density Strut Mounts
- H&R Coilover Suspension - RSS Clubsport
- Super Pro Rear Sway Bar 24MM
- SuperPro Control Arms - Performance Lightweight Alloy
- SuperPro Rear Lower Frontward Control Arm Inner Bushing Kit
- SuperPro Rear Main Control Arm Inner Bushing Kit
- SuperPro Rear Main Control Arm Outer Bushing Kit
- SuperPro Rear Trailing Arm Front Bushing Kit
- SuperPro Rear Upper Control Arm Inner Bushings
- SuperPro Rear Upper Control Arm Outer Bushings
- VW Golf R32 Slotted Rotors Blue Calipers Big Brake Kit Front (345x30) and Rear (310x22) with HPS 5.0 pads
- ECS Braided Brakes Lines
- Enkei Raijin 18x8 Black Wheels
- Hankook Ventus RS3 235/40/18
- Badgless Front Grill
- GTI OEM Projector HeadLights
- Euro LED TailLights
- VW Golf R32 MFD2 Radio
- BFI Weighted Shifter
- 35% Tint All Around
 

CNGVW

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
TDI
Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
Well a lot of you guys bit your tongue on what we did to the DRVOLKS.com Beetle would work !!
Thompson Speedway 1.5 Miles, Lemon race with 115 cars on the track for 14 hrs
We set track record for the Northeast lap time of 1.30.115 of a VW, front wheel drive, TDI only using 3th and 4th gear
We got 4.45 HR on a stock tank of fuel at those kind of speed with over 100 on the track at any given time.
Ok I thought to give a update on how it worked just did Thompson L**** race The changes work very well . Got the car down to 1.30.115 with over 100 cars on the track at any given time .fastest car time was 1.26.580 and we were 5th fastest B class and over all 22th fastest out of 111 cars. And on diesel!!

Friday we tested and where at 1.33 with a clean track all day and where happy.
We did have some setbacks on Saturday 8 laps in we lost the power steering hose and spend 3 hr trying to fix it and Peter of IDPARTS.Com left one out side his warehouse . one drive drove 4 hors to get it. So we could finish up the day. Thank you Peter.

It was a blast now to get ready for the next race.
 
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shepner

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Location
Milwaukee, WI
TDI
2015 Golf TDI
That's great! Keep us posted for how the next one goes

I just got done replacing the front pads and rotors on mine. Also did the first flush with Castro SRF. The OEM pads were glazed, cracked, and starting to crumble. For my stock size brakes, Frozen Rotors was the only (good) choice and G-Loc brakes (excellent customer service btw) is the only one who would do the pads. The rears are still holding up so I'll change them out later. I'm only on their entry racing R8 compound but these things start out noticeably more effective then OEM and they get more so the moment they get slightly warm.

This Sat/Sun are my next Solo races. Next weekend is HSAX at Milwaukee Mile.

stephen
 

dieselherb1

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Location
Va.
TDI
06 MK5,09 Mk5 CR,03 Mk4,96,2-97 B4s,98 A3,2000 A4,4 Caddies( 2-1.6TD,1.6,TDI) Chevys 6.2,6.5,6.5TD
2017 Bugout will be at Dominion Raceway Thornburg Va. Sept. 3. they have a 2 mile road course and will be doing a "rolling drag" 1/8 mile race. I went to Dub Deliverance last week, very disapointed! not a single TDI on the track.
 

adamsjeremy93

New member
Joined
Aug 8, 2017
Location
Virginia
TDI
2006 Jetta Tdi DSG
I would of been out to dub deliverance but I had a medical reason for not being there and won't be able to get behind the wheel of a car until mid September.
 

3L3M3NT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Location
Sturgeon Bay, WI
TDI
04 Jetta GLS TDI, 04 RTDI
If you are having issues heel/toeing in your MKIV or MKVII VW or MKI TT, 2002+ A4/S4, 2002+ A6/S6, and A5 Audi then these pedal options are for you. I was having issues in my MKIV VW R TDI on the track this fall, so the search began for a solution. After a few days I saw that Rennline offered a heel/toe extension, but to run the extension you have to also run their Aluminum Gas Pedal.

So at the very least you need these: Heel/Toe Extension http://www.rennline.com/Throttle-Extensions-Heel_Toe/productinfo/PE75H/and this Gas Pedal http://www.rennline.com/Rennline-Aluminum-Gas-pedal-Rubber-Grip-Audi/productinfo/P75/

In Case you're interested the group buy extends to all pedal options for our cars.
http://www.rennline.com/Rennline-Aluminum-Pedal-Set-4-piece-Rubber-Grip-VW/productinfo/P75.60.93V/
http://www.rennline.com/Rennline-Aluminum-Pedal-Set-4-piece-Rubber-Grip-Audi/productinfo/P75.60.92/
http://www.rennline.com/Rennline-Aluminum-Gas-pedal-Rubber-Grip-VW/productinfo/P75V/
http://www.rennline.com/Rennline-Aluminum-Pedal-Set-4-piece-Rubber-Grip-Audi/productinfo/P75.60.93/
http://www.rennline.com/Rennline-Aluminum-Pedal-Set-3-piece-Rubber-Grip-Audi/productinfo/P75.60/

If you have any questions regarding the pedals/extension that is right for your VW/Audi please email orders@rennline.com

After emailing back and forth they are going to offer a discount on all pedal offerings for our VW/Audi vehicles.

10 people = 10% off
20 people = 20% off

I'll do my best with updating who is in on the group buy. The money will be collected once we have enough people (Fingers crossed that we get to 20).
 
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