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VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs This is a discussion about MKIII-A3/MkIII Jetta/Golf (<99.5) and B4 Passats (96,97) TDI's. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old October 15th, 2018, 08:10   #1
Chris_TDI_98
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Question Why duplicate ABS and Airbag icons ??

Sorry if this is a dumb question.. yet itíll be good to know in order to better understand the car operates.
There is many icons on the bottom edge of the cluster.
Including the ABS and Airbag icons, right? Right.

Why then, the duplicate icons for ABS and Airbags, on the small square dashboard insert, located just next to the headlight switch?
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Old October 15th, 2018, 08:12   #2
compu_85
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For whatever reason VW didn't use the positions in the cluster. I can't say why.

-J
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Old October 15th, 2018, 11:18   #3
Chris_TDI_98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
For whatever reason VW didn't use the positions in the cluster. I can't say why.
Wow, VW wiring engineers made an error, thatís unexpected.
My TDI is missing this insert for the Airbag icon and Seatbelt icon (it doesnít have the ABS option).
Was this small Airbag/Seatbelt icon insert absolutely installed at factory, and the previous owner removed it?
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Old October 15th, 2018, 11:22   #4
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Different markets have different requirements, too. There were A3 platform cars sold that had no OBD of any kind. No SRS, no ABS, nothing. A fair amount of that car is cobbled together from leftovers from the '80s.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 11:54   #5
Chris_TDI_98
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There seems to exist just about every possible combination of these four, with one two or three icons on the insert:
1. ABS
2. Airbag
3. Seatbelt
4. Unknown icon looks like hazards indicator two arrows and a number 1 in middle.



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Old October 15th, 2018, 12:04   #6
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That's unusual, I don't remember that far left dash insert being used after 1996 but I could be wrong. Does it actually illuminate at startup to show that the icons warning lights are working?

My airbag icon works and it's in the cluster, I would have expected yours to work too, however, the ABS (if you actually have it) harness is separate from the general wiring harness for these cars so that might explain why your car would have the left most indicator light. The fact that you have ABS and SRS too might have required the use of the left most insert as well.

The last time I saw one of those left most inserts was on a car with some kind of towing package. It did not have ABS or SRS indicators though.

And not to be contrary to OH but the Mk3 used far items from past models versus other cars, like Mk2, in fact I have never seen a specific 1HX part number with a production date from before 1991. Even the 357 leftovers only trace back to the late 80's. The brakes and suspension and bits of drivetrain are the only places where I see carryover production.

For small scale things I can see how there could be carryover from one gen to the next, and certainly we see that often, but it's not because we have a container full of XX and we need to use it, it's because we've already designed XX and it will work for this chassis. That's a pretty big distinction in my book.

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Old October 15th, 2018, 12:05   #7
Steve Addy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_TDI_98 View Post
There seems to exist just about every possible combination of these four, with one two or three icons on the insert:
1. ABS
2. Airbag
3. Seatbelt
4. Unknown icon looks like hazards indicator two arrows and a number 1 in middle.




The unknown icon you mentioned is for towing IIRC


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Old October 16th, 2018, 13:06   #8
compu_85
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Yes, the <-1-> icon is a repeater that indicates the trailer turn signals are working (and that a trailer is "seen" by the trailer control module).

Why VW didn't just leave all of that in the cluster - when the cluster has the positions for it already! - is beyond me. Perhaps it would have required different circuit board versions and they didn't want to do that?

It could also be a styling hold over from the Mk2?
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Old October 17th, 2018, 00:34   #9
Steve Addy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
Yes, the <-1-> icon is a repeater that indicates the trailer turn signals are working (and that a trailer is "seen" by the trailer control module).

Why VW didn't just leave all of that in the cluster - when the cluster has the positions for it already! - is beyond me. Perhaps it would have required different circuit board versions and they didn't want to do that?

It could also be a styling hold over from the Mk2?
Maybe it's because the wiring loom didn't have all that stuff integrated into it, I know that the ABS harness is a separate entity, perhaps the other things are too for some cases.

I do agree though, seems odd that it's not fully integrated, especially since two of the three icons already exist in the cluster.

Steve
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Old October 17th, 2018, 15:00   #10
Chris_TDI_98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Addy View Post
That's unusual, I don't remember that far left dash insert being used after 1996 but I could be wrong. Does it actually illuminate at startup to show that the icons warning lights are working?
Sorry for slow reply.
My tdi doesn’t actually have this icon insert near headlight switch.
If it did have it, the PO maybe removed it?
Reason to ask about it is, I found this driver side icon dash insert on an mk3 Cabrio at the self service junk yard, and it made me wonder: A. why have duplicate redundant icons?
B. Why doesn’t my TDI have those redundant icons?
C. Should it have them?
D. Is the engine computer expecting to show me those icons on the insert and not on the cluster, and I’m missibg out on whatever it has tried, or will try to tell me about Airbag or Seatbelt status??

Quote:
My airbag icon works and it's in the cluster, I would have expected yours to work too, however, the ABS (if you actually have it) harness is separate from the general wiring harness for these cars so that might explain why your car would have the left most indicator light. The fact that you have ABS and SRS too might have required the use of the left most insert as well.
Actually my TDI doesn’t have ABS, nor factory Towing, unfortunately.
Only has Airbag, and the central locking.
Also no AC, no power windows.

When you power on the car, you see an Airbag icon, but NOT a Seatbelt icon..?!

Is the Seatbelt relay (the one that makes the three note melody tones) required to be installed in order for the Seatbelt icon to light up? I bet not but had to ask.

Last edited by Chris_TDI_98; October 17th, 2018 at 19:15.
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Old October 17th, 2018, 15:10   #11
compu_85
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Yes - the seat belt relay controls the seatbelt light. And the key in ignition warning, and the lights on warning.
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2013 Fiat 500e. 33,000 miles.
99.5 Jetta "GLX" TDI. 323,000 miles. Power Memory Seats, HIDs 11mm pump, BV39 Turbo, RCIII 36/47 MPG.
1991 Mercedes 350SDL 230,000 miles, 70,000 on engine. 18/27 MPG.
Past:
2012 Passat SE TDI DSG. 114,000 miles. LED tails, Memory Seat, HIDs. Bought back by VW.
2004 Touareg V10 TDI. 165,000 miles. Sold to Matt98AHU w/ flat camshafts.
1988 Audi 5000S Quattro, 1992 Jetta ECOdiesel, 1991 Jetta ECOdiesel.
Thank you for giving me the BUG*PWR award. It means a lot to me!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUSSELS BELGIAN View Post
Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
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Old October 17th, 2018, 23:24   #12
Steve Addy
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As I mentioned before the icon in the small end piece is not something I remember after 1996 but I could be wrong about that too, especially when it comes to Cabrio, which is something of a different beast.

I will say though that a 98 GTI 2.0L I saw at Upull a few days ago did have the ABS light in the small trim piece on the left so I'm probably not remembering correctly about that. It didn't have either of the other icons but I wouldn't expect it to.

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Old October 18th, 2018, 06:20   #13
compu_85
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As far as I've seen, All Mk3s/ with ABS in the USA have the warning light off to the side. The seatbelt warning light is always in the cluster. The SRS warning light moved from the side to the cluster around 1997.

PS: Chris, did you know the cluster can display a digital tach in the odometer

-J
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Present:
2018 Tesla Model 3 DM. 3500 miles.
2014 Cadillac ELR. 33,000 miles.
2013 Fiat 500e. 33,000 miles.
99.5 Jetta "GLX" TDI. 323,000 miles. Power Memory Seats, HIDs 11mm pump, BV39 Turbo, RCIII 36/47 MPG.
1991 Mercedes 350SDL 230,000 miles, 70,000 on engine. 18/27 MPG.
Past:
2012 Passat SE TDI DSG. 114,000 miles. LED tails, Memory Seat, HIDs. Bought back by VW.
2004 Touareg V10 TDI. 165,000 miles. Sold to Matt98AHU w/ flat camshafts.
1988 Audi 5000S Quattro, 1992 Jetta ECOdiesel, 1991 Jetta ECOdiesel.
Thank you for giving me the BUG*PWR award. It means a lot to me!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUSSELS BELGIAN View Post
Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
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Old October 18th, 2018, 12:15   #14
Chris_TDI_98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
PS: Chris, did you know the cluster can display a digital tach in the odometer
Yes I saw somewhere on a vw site can’t recsll which one, that there’s a cheat code to show digital tach in place of the odometer.

Will try it for fun. Need to do some urgent repairs as well, ie getting the hanging cat welded back to the downstream pipe, fix or replace leaking front drivers side tire, rust stuff before it snows, rear and maybe front struts as well, cabin air filter, new upgrades led lighting, restore alarm and keyless entry, start button, and gps tracker with streaming cloud video lol.
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