Beef on a Budget. VR6/Wagon springs

Remember the error will multiply so 1/4" at the strut may be 1/2" to 3/4" at the tire to wheel-well measurement.

I've got Powerflex Poly upper mounts on my car and was getting a clunk. I had my driver's side apart this weekend and the upper strut bearing seems okay. Beware that Meyle is also often Chinese now and I am suspicious about that quality.

I am looking at doing a suspension refresh on my Mk4 Jetta. I think those MOOG coil springs are a great deal (even cheaper than before)... but I will be looking at the Bilstein TC Sports for the VR6 instead of the Chinese ones.

However, I am also looking at the kit on IDParts with the new ball joints, tie rod ends and LCA bushings... etc. I am looking to upgrade those the the Audi TT bushings... but is this just the front end? If so, what about the back end?

Anyone look at better wheel bearing? I am considering something with less friction.

Yea those Blau struts are Chinese crap go German and be done. I'm running tc sports and car feels great with Tt bushings.

I'm running the Moog springs with the Bilstein TC Sports and I like it. Audi TT back LCA bushings. I have an 04 MK4 with a Tiptronic and from talking to Marty at Raxles apparantly the axles on my car are sub-par. The boots are leaking and I might have a bad joint or two. Next project is to pull the axles and check them out thoroughly, upgrade if needed.

For the rear torsion beam you can check and replace those bushings if needed. Liebenforder (sp) is probably a good choice there if your stock ones are going.

Again a warning though is that I think many (or all) of the Meyle parts are now made in China also, so I'd be cautious about that brand for strut bearings, etc.

Well, have been driving with the BLAU & stock springs combo for a week now and am finding the ride kinda harsh, not bouncy but bumpy if you know what I mean. Car doesn't nose dive during breaking that much anymore and doesn't roll as much at the highway on/off ramp but seems to magnify any imperfection from the road surface by tenfold.
I understand these are new shocks but comparing the ride to a set of pretty new/used stock Jetta VR6 strut/shocks I had couple years ago, the BLAU's ride seems harsher.

Any comments?

Yikes, I don't want anything like that... Hopefully the Bilsteins are better. With my worn out suspension, it feels like I am in a cargo crate rolling down a rocky ravine.

powerfool said:

Yikes, I don't want anything like that... Hopefully the Bilsteins are better. With my worn out suspension, it feels like I am in a cargo crate rolling down a rocky ravine.

Click to expand...

Are you going with TC or Sport Bilsteins? What about springs, OE stock or new?

MOOG coil springs, Bilstein TC Sports for VR6 and refreshing ball joints, tie rod ends, an LCA bushings with the Audi TT variety.

NOTE: I am just buying the kits with all the parts off of IDParts, with the exception of the MOOG springs, which will be from Rockauto.

CmdrData said:

Well, have been driving with the BLAU & stock springs combo for a week now and am finding the ride kinda harsh, not bouncy but bumpy if you know what I mean. Car doesn't nose dive during breaking that much anymore and doesn't roll as much at the highway on/off ramp but seems to magnify any imperfection from the road surface by tenfold.
I understand these are new shocks but comparing the ride to a set of pretty new/used stock Jetta VR6 strut/shocks I had couple years ago, the BLAU's ride seems harsher.

Any comments?

Click to expand...

Just curious about the Blau front upper strut mounts. I'd really like to talk to a VW engineer about the mounts because the stock mounts are pretty squishy and I suspect they do a lot to absorb the tiny little cracks and bumps in the road. I was concerned about going to Poly in my car for that reason. Remember that tires can do a lot to soften the tiny bumps also.

Try bouncing on your fender and watch the strut tower cap. Does it move much at all? If you can't see any movement at all, it could be the Blau mount doesn't have much spring/dampening effect and that might contribute to exaggerating the small bumps. Just a guess.

Richptl said:

Just curious about the Blau front upper strut mounts. I'd really like to talk to a VW engineer about the mounts because the stock mounts are pretty squishy and I suspect they do a lot to absorb the tiny little cracks and bumps in the road. I was concerned about going to Poly in my car for that reason. Remember that tires can do a lot to soften the tiny bumps also.

Try bouncing on your fender and watch the strut tower cap. Does it move much at all? If you can't see any movement at all, it could be the Blau mount doesn't have much spring/dampening effect and that might contribute to exaggerating the small bumps. Just a guess.

Click to expand...

I might have been exaggerated a bit when I said small bumps feel like 10x as bad but it is a more noticeable bump especially the back. Given it hasn’t seen that much milage yet, will give it more time to settle in first.

Richptl, I’ll try to video it and post it here when I get a chance.

European rear wagon towing springs for $200!

any interest in the European towing springs for around $200 shipped to US?

i found a German aftermarket brand that makes the 5 green dots springs and could set up a group buy with enough orders. i'm going to order one set and check them out. they'll probably take 2-3 weeks to get here, but once they do i'll be sure to post pics...

Placed my IDParts order today (didn't realize that they would be closed today for TDIFest... wish I could go).

I went a little bit overboard with it and bought some extra stuff I needed:

1 x A4 Filter Pack (ALH, BEW)
- Add 2nd Oil Filter:
- Air Filter: Mann w/Prefilter
- Cabin Filter: Charcoal
- Fuel Filter: Hengst $52.90
1 x Air Filter w/Prefilter (A4) $9.95
1 x Bilstein TC Sport Strut and Shock Set (A4 Sport or VR6)
- Front Strut Mounts:
- Rear Shock Mounts:
- Front Bump Stops:
- Rear Bump Stops:
- Installation Bolt Kit: $423.50
1 x Suspension and Steering Refresh Kit (A4)
- Tie Rods: Ends Only
- Control Arm Rear Bushing: Audi TT Style
- Sway Bar Bushings: 21mm Bushings
- Hardware: Bolts $157.20
2 x Stabilizer Link (A4)
- Hardware: Lower Bolt $35.28
1 x Pressure Converter (N75) for Turbo (A4)(B5.5) $69.95

Total: $748.78

This includes my 20k miles filter kit, and an additional oil filter and air filter for my next change (upgraded cabin filter to charcoal and fuel filter to Hengst). I got all of the extra hardware, upgraded to Audi TT bushings and threw in a pair of stabilizer links last second..., and a new N75.

Other than my suspension being completely worn and generally bad, I have a horendous rear-passenger klunk, so the stabilizer links are an extra precaution to make sure that is definitely gone after this refresh. Qualified for free IDeal shipping, nice.

Was going to order the coil springs off Rockauto, but the shipping was $21.11, so I thought that I would compare to Amazon:

Rockauto:
1 x MOOG Part# 81055 Constant Rate Springs Rear; w/7th/8th digit of VIN = 9M or 1J $28.79
1 x MOOG Part # 81134 Constant Rate Springs Front; w/7th/8th digit of VIN = 9M or 1J $30.79

Shipping: $21.11
Total: $80.69

Amazon:
1 x MOOG Part# 81055 Constant Rate Springs Rear; w/7th/8th digit of VIN = 9M or 1J $35.99
1 x MOOG Part # 81134 Constant Rate Springs Front; w/7th/8th digit of VIN = 9M or 1J $40.21

Total: $76.20 - Winner!

So, my shipping would have been free regardless since it was over $25, but I have Amazon Prime, so it is free 2-day shipping (doesn't really matter since my IDParts order won't ship until Tuesday and then it is likely 7 days still). Plus, I am an Amazon shareholder and I can buy Amazon gift cards at the local Kroger in order to get fuel rewards points... and they are 4x points for the next few weeks. Now, Amazon did incorrectly state that the rears won't fit my car, but by the VIN number check, they most certainly do, Amazon.

Total tab: $824.98

Total for only suspension parts: $692.18

Nearly $200 more than the Blauparts comp, but I also bought stabilizer links and the full refresh kit, so without that, it was $499.70, which is right at the OPs ~$500 cost for the Chinese parts.

This is extremely timely for me... I was considering the possibility of putting this off as there was a chance I would be working internationally for a couple of months, but that was pushed back about 6 months, too. So, I will get it done.

I am actually taking a German II course at my alma mater 3 days per week at lunch time, which means my normal 60 mile round trip to work is now a 100 mile day for each of those three days (Home-to-Work, Work-to-School, School-to-Work, and Work-to-Home). Having a friendly suspension really goes a long way. If I do German III next semester, it will be in the late afternoon and I will just do that on the way home, so it will be about 65 miles round trip on those days.


A bit more than I planned to spend as I used a bonus award from work to justify the budgetting to the wife... after taxes were withheld the deposit was about $550 (from $800). I also have about $600 sitting in one of those freelance sites that I have earned and not withdrawn, yet. So, it sounds like I am going to finally do that and then maybe buy my leather seats, finally, and perhaps some dynamat for the crayon-ectomy.

Update: Despite IDParts listing that they are closed, I received confirmation that my order has shipped.

this question is for the rear moog springs but Are these springs settling more over a couple weeks or few hundred miles? Or do they stay the same height like the day they were put in? thanks

Someone with a car similar to mine sent an email about a suspension refresh and I thought I would share some thoughts and lessons learned. Try not to make my mistakes.

Front upper mounts:

These I think are some of the flimsiest parts of the suspension, but the squishy factory rubber does help with absorbing noise, jolts, etc. If you value ride, get the oem rubber type. I went with Powerflex Poly which you can now get from ECS tuning for less than I paid:

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_IV--TDI/Search/SiteSearch/Strut_Mount/ES2650246/

This will help you with changing those mounts:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=74863

Front struts:

Discussed at length here in this thread. I chose the Bilstein TC sport front struts. They are not harsh but are firm.

Moog springs:

I put PlastiDip on them but I haven't been through a winter yet so I cannot really say how much that will help with rust just yet. On the wagon with the Moog springs the front will still be lower than the back unless you use spacers.

Axles:

Check your CV boots while you are doing the suspension upgrade! I wish I had really looked into the CV boot/axle issue so I did all this at once. The MKIV auto transmission cars use a "triple roller" inner joint to reduce driveline feedback, but these are flimsy. My car has 200K miles on it and the CV boots were going. I was losing grease from one inner boot through a tiny hairline crack, that is all it takes. You can pay $100 or so for a crappy Chinese axle at Autozone, hundreds for an oem, I bought a replacement from Raxles for my passenger side (longer on my car) for about $250 delivered with the box to return the old axle.

If you decide to change the CV boots, beware that the Autozone "universal" inner boot doesn't have the tri lobe seal, you have to cut the old boot part (stupid right, using the old rubber?). Also the awful clamps require a banding tool to really pull them snug. I have new oem boots on my driver's side and new axle now on passenger side.

Wheel bearings:

Scurvy has a great thread here on wheel bearings.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=250295

Again if you are tearing into a front strut replacement, worth inspecting those while you are at it.

LCA Bushings:

I went with the Audi TT LCA back bushing and I did not change the front. If you change the front, the 2 piece Polyurethane will go on a lot easier. I didn't have much problem putting on the TT bushing.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=154137

Rear sway bar bushings:

These totally kicked my butt and I got so frustrated that I removed the sub-frame, which I then repainted. Even with the whole thing off, those were a bear. My recommendation is to inspect and leave them alone unless you see issues.

Ball joints and tie rod ends:

I didn't change mine. We're on a budget right? Inspect and replace as needed. I tend to think these should last longer than the rubber components and struts.

Richptl said:

Someone with a car similar to mine sent an email about a suspension refresh and I thought I would share some thoughts and lessons learned. Try not to make my mistakes.

Front upper mounts:

These I think are some of the flimsiest parts of the suspension, but the squishy factory rubber does help with absorbing noise, jolts, etc. If you value ride, get the oem rubber type. I went with Powerflex Poly which you can now get from ECS tuning for less than I paid:

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_IV--TDI/Search/SiteSearch/Strut_Mount/ES2650246/

Click to expand...

how do you like those strut mounts? is the ride unbearable?

i'm deciding on what to use with FSD struts(with spacers) and R32 springs. don't want to have to dig in later just to change the OEM mounts again. half the time wife and kids are in the car, so they can't be too firm...

So, I went to AutoZone to borrow the coil spring compressor tool and get underway. The tool didn't work so well at all for the shock spring, so I just changed my passenger rear shock... I have to think it isn't such a good thing that I could loosen the mount bolts by hand. Anyhow, changed just that shock and went to bed. Got up this morning to return the compressor and get the strut compressor as that should work alright for either... the clunk is completely gone... it was probably a combination of that mount not being secured very well and the utter lack of shock absorption by the old shock.

Onward to the rest, but so far so good.

Also, the boxes weren't labeled in English and my German doesn't extend very far into auto parts, so I was looking up the part numbers and making sure they were what I expected to get. You could likely get the Bilsteins cheaper, piecemeal, on Amazon's site, but I am glad that I picked them up from IDParts... got all of the extras with a couple of clicks and they support the site.

EDIT: Well, rear is all done and its nice. Since the PO lost all kinds of aesthetic pieces, including the lug caps, I forgot to take my wheel key off (because I didn't attempt to put on my non-existent cap) and lost it driving. Went to a VW dealer to buy a new one and was told that they discontinued them, so I bought four new lugs to replace whenever I could get them off, again. On my way home, I did a drive around my test area and found it... then I found that there was one in my spare tire kit. Good deal.

Rides REAL nice. Super smooth, no clunk, no bounce. Nur fahrvergnügen!

EDIT 2: Ending up still having a clunk once more weight (e.g. people) were in the vehicle. The rear axle bushing were shot. Replaced those, VERY smooth. But, this is just the rear suspension so far.

So after reading through the 18 pages of this tread I am very interested in doing my suspension. I'll start first with my needs/wants: I am a scuba diver. I bought this car because of the MPG's for long trips, reliability because I'm a college student, and because diesels are awesome. At times, I'll have up to 5 tanks in my car, that's 200 pounds of weight in my trunk/hatch. I want something that's going to give me better handling but keep the car lifted so that the excess weight doesn't have the car bottoming out.

Now, I have looked at the many options and sees where I'm confused is with the struts and shocks. I'm definitly going to do the VR6 front springs and Wagon rears via RockAuto. I was pretty set on the VR6 refresh kit from Blau but after reading I can do the Bilstein TCSports for roughly the same price it seems that is a better option, since it seems the quality of the Blauparts kit is a little iffy, or subpar. But I am on a budget, college student budget which is why I was leaning towards the Blauparts kit.

I'm looking for recommendations and suggestions for what you guys think I should do. I also plan to tow my motorcycle after I put a hitch on the car in the future, figured that would be good for you guys to know when suggesting the best set up for me. Thanks I'm advance guys.

Def don't go with anything less than the bilstein tc struts and shocks. Get all the install bolts and mounts and shocks,struts from a more reputable company like Bora Parts or ID parts or Metalmanparts they are all top notch and stand behind what they sell. Kerma TDI is right there too.

So when I order them, I'll want to make sure I get the install bolts, front rear mounts and bumps?
I've also read a lot about replacing a bushing with the Audi TT LCA bushing. How big of a job is that and is there anything else I should replace while I'm down here? I'm on about a $500 budget.

professorxjosh said:

So when I order them, I'll want to make sure I get the install bolts, front rear mounts and bumps?
I've also read a lot about replacing a bushing with the Audi TT LCA bushing. How big of a job is that and is there anything else I should replace while I'm down here? I'm on about a $500 budget.

Click to expand...

* Most likely your top strut mounts are squished and you should change them, and the upper strut bearings, with the struts.
* I have Bilstein TC's and VR6 front springs and I like the set-up. Stiff but not overly harsh.
* The TT bushing isn't all that hard to do and there are tips here in the forums on how. I had more trouble with the darn sway bar bushings.

Let us know how you make out and how much you spend.

Wanted to ask another question before I start ordering stuff.

How badly does "beefing up" your suspension effect fuel milage? Currently I'm getting about 43mpg and I'd actually like to improve that. I'm running a Malone stage 1 tune but I stay outta the high RPM's 90% of the time.
I know I read a few posts stating that this causes aassove decrease in MPG's.

43 is not too good unless it is an auto. I run my car pretty hard and consistently get 47. When I run through the gears nicely I can get close to 53. I beefed my suspension, no lift, just stronger springs and new shocks/struts. I was actually not too impressed with the beefing up part of the springs. I had expected to get a little less body roll, but that did not seem to do much. I will likely be getting a rear sway bar. I grew up driving a 79 Trans Am so I like to be able to push things around corners. I have a hard time doing this in the Jetta. My wife's Dodge Stratus on the other hand, that thing can turn a corner like no ones business, and the ride is amazingly smooth. Better than I could likely ever get the Jetta.

79TA7.6 said:

43 is not too good unless it is an auto. I run my car pretty hard and consistently get 47. When I run through the gears nicely I can get close to 53. I beefed my suspension, no lift, just stronger springs and new shocks/struts. I was actually not too impressed with the beefing up part of the springs. I had expected to get a little less body roll, but that did not seem to do much. I will likely be getting a rear sway bar. I grew up driving a 79 Trans Am so I like to be able to push things around corners. I have a hard time doing this in the Jetta. My wife's Dodge Stratus on the other hand, that thing can turn a corner like no ones business, and the ride is amazingly smooth. Better than I could likely ever get the Jetta.

Click to expand...

Hmm I wonder what could be causing my low MPG's. I know that's outside the scope of this thread so I'll do a little reading but any input on that would be appreciated it.

From the looks of things, I'm gonna go with the TC sport struts and shocks and the VR6 springs in front, Wagon springs in rear.

Which springs did you end up going with? I'm sure you posted in here but I probably lost track of it after reading everyone's different set ups.

I used the same springs as in the original post and used the Blauparts shocks/struts. I would not use them again though. Next I would like to try the newer Koni FSD.

Take a look in the fuel economy section and the MKIV section to help with your MPG issue. I would start asking but you are right, this is not the thread to do so in.

Okay cool. Thanks for the heads up, I'll go take a look at those Koni's.

I'm going with the Rock Auto springs on my Golf. Just on stock (yeah I know) struts/shocks for now.
My only worry is that being a Golf I will end-up with too much rear ride-height. I might try and find some sort of spring seat that will allow me to use a spring without a pigtail then just trim a coil off the rears.

-Grant

Grantmac said:

I'm going with the Rock Auto springs on my Golf. Just on stock (yeah I know) struts/shocks for now.
My only worry is that being a Golf I will end-up with too much rear ride-height. I might try and find some sort of spring seat that will allow me to use a spring without a pigtail then just trim a coil off the rears.

-Grant

Click to expand...

I am also worried about that. But I am kind of wanting a little rear end height just for the extra load of the stuff I'll be carrying/towing.
Be sure to let everyone know what you end up going with. I'm very curious as to how it will be with the stock struts/shocks.

professorxjosh said:

I am also worried about that. But I am kind of wanting a little rear end height just for the extra load of the stuff I'll be carrying/towing.
Be sure to let everyone know what you end up going with. I'm very curious as to how it will be with the stock struts/shocks.

Click to expand...

It's really just going to be a development mule for a better suspension set-up that I'm working on. I suspect it will be quite bouncy with the stock components.
I may end-up with NB rear springs as I've heard they are a little shorter and the same spring-rate as the wagon springs.

-Grant

what is the rear wheel weight on the Golf? It is inside the drivers side door.

The driver's door sticker shows the ALLOWED weight, not the actual curb weight. GAWR is Gross Axle Weight Rating.

As a general rule of thumb, the interior load of a vehicle can be calculated by multiplying the number of seats by 170 and another 200 for the cargo area. This would be considered the "typical" full-load. Hopefully these numbers come in less than the axle ratings. Since each axle is only carrying a portion of the load (60% rear 40% front) that would be how to split the people-plus-cargo weight to see if you are over the GAWR.

If you are towing, the tongue weight also gets added to the rear axle number of people/cargo, and the total trailer weight PLUS the people/cargo weight must not exceed the door sticker's number for GCWR: Gross Combined Weight Rating