www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc)

Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc) Discussions about alternative fuels for use in our TDI's. This includes biodiesel WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil), SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil), BTL (Biomass to Liquid), GTL (Gas to Liquids) etc. Please note the Fuel Disclaimer.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 28th, 2006, 11:13   #1
MrErlo
Veteran Member
 
MrErlo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Omaha, NE
Fuel Economy: lifetime 45.52, best 61.18
Default Who killed the electric car?

now this isn't related to BioD, but it spreads the message of decreasing oil reliance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSBykAngDpY
MrErlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2006, 11:23   #2
azhottie
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: tucson, az
Default

thank you so much for sharing...and i love it won awards at sundance - means someone is listening!!!
__________________
”The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n. “ ~~ John Milton

"I can not believe that war is the best solution. No one won the last war, and no one will win the next war." ~~ Eleanor Roosevelt

'06.5 Jetta bought to use Bio
azhottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2006, 15:44   #3
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast
Pre-Forum Veteran Member
 
Lug_Nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
Default

Interesting comment from Ed Begley: These aren't for everybody, just 90 percent of the population.

Who killed the electric car? Mr. Milo Kilometer, that's who. The range was, and remains, the sticking point. When electrics can be energized for 4 hours of travel and can be re-energized in 20 minutes for another 4 hours, THEN they will be accepted. Even the best GM's Impact / EV-1 would do was 150 miles with the optional extended range battery pack. It then required several hours of recharging.

I was firmly in the 10% group. Now i'm in the 90.
My daily commute was 125 miles. There isn't an electric powered personal transport that will do that. Now that my new office is 20 miles away, the 40 mile range is well within the limitations of conversion vehicles, and I'm considering the options I have.
__________________
If the quantity of carbonic acid increases in geometric progression,
the augmentation of the temperature will increase nearly in arithmetic progression.

Svante Arrhenius 1896

Cogito ergo soy (I think, therefore: Biodiesel)
Lug_Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2006, 15:59   #4
silverstar03
Veteran Member
 
silverstar03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hudson Valley NY
Default

I saw this film a couple weeks ago (special screening). it's well done, and it will piss you off once you realize how great these cars were. Plus an all electric RAV4, Ranger pickup, etc. they were all made.

One of the film's points is actually that the range could have been far greater had GM given new battery technology a try. that initial range was using lead-acid batteries--but they bought controlling stake in a new battery company that could have doubled the range. when they decided to kill the electric car, they sold this company to...chevron texaco. crud.
silverstar03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2006, 16:47   #5
slote
Member
 
slote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default

Keep this in mind when considering electricity: where's it come from. Most of our electricity right now comes from burning coal, also not a renewable resource. Nuclear power, wind, hydro are all good sources too, but don't make up as much of the market. I'm not saying electricity isn't better, just that it's no holy grail when it comes to cars. Also, I'm part of the 10%, so I could be biased.
slote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2006, 21:51   #6
VEGASTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slote
Keep this in mind when considering electricity: where's it come from. Most of our electricity right now comes from burning coal, also not a renewable resource. Nuclear power, wind, hydro are all good sources too, but don't make up as much of the market. I'm not saying electricity isn't better, just that it's no holy grail when it comes to cars. Also, I'm part of the 10%, so I could be biased.

Thank you.........not only is coal produced electricity dirty, what do you do with all the lead based batteries when it's time??

Won't even get into the petroleum based plastics and rubber used to produce the electric cars........

No huge gains and a lot of compromises concerning electric cars.........

But hey, if you're some silver spoon fed celebrity who blows more energy in a month heating or cooling your 10,000' mansion/pool(s) then the average Joe uses in a year, I guess it might make you feel good to show up at an occasional event spouting eco-crap to make yourself feel better.




.....why does America care soooo much what these entertainers have to say????
__________________
'06 Jetta, '06 Mustang GT, '01 F-250 V10, '02 Ford Ranger, '70 Faux BOSS 302 Mustang, '69 Ford Bronco, '04 Kawasaki ZX12R, '06 GAS GAS 300 trials bike,'99 Husky 610, '06 Yamaha Raptor 700, a pair of SEA-DOOS, Kubota L3710 tractor, Takeuchi mini-excavator.....I think that's it!!

Last edited by VEGASTDI; July 1st, 2006 at 01:06.
VEGASTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2006, 21:59   #7
bioTDInBENZ
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: So.San.Fran. Califaz
Default

The RAV4 was killed? i see one everyday on the way to work, someone must commute in it. and so far ive spotted 3 of those RAV4 electric cars in San Francisco.
__________________
05 Passat TDI 40kmiles 50mpg!(when on D2)B100!!
87 Mercedes 300D OM603 engine..fast mofo!! beat your TDI
83 Mercedes 300SD 300Kmiles wvo powered
78 Mercedes 300D 437Kmiles wvo powered
bioTDInBENZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2006, 23:32   #8
NFSTDI
 
NFSTDI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sunny California :)
TDI(s): '98 Jetta
Fuel Economy: 39-44.75 MPG, cumulative average 39 MPG
Default

Those RAVS are a gold mine! One recently sold on eBay for sixty-seven thousand dollars! They sold new for thirty-two. Now that's what I call a great investment.

Electric cars have thier place although Hybrids are more practical for most would be EV owners. What we need is a Diesel Hybrid that we can run on BIO. Now that would be a more efficient use of resources.
__________________
1998 Jetta RC II/III K03/04 Billy HDs & SofSports
1998 Ducati ST2 FBF tune 1986 300SDL
1989 Ford E350 Diesel (7.3L International)
2004 Ford E350 6 leaker
http://www.keysforcarsberkeley.com
NFSTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2006, 02:19   #9
RC
Veteran Member
 
RC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Maryland`s Eastern Shore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFSTDI
... What we need is a Diesel Hybrid that we can run on BIO. Now that would be a more efficient use of resources.
Add a plug-in to that diesel hybrid so we can charge the batts from home with roof mounted PVs and micro windmills, fuel it with the B100 from the biod plant 2 miles down the road..... and I believe we are close to were we need to be.
__________________
Two 96 TDI Passat Wagons, Bypass Filters, Chipped
87 MB 300TD, 97 Ram2500, Kubota Tractor
24 cylinders sipping the sweet sauce of the soy bean
RC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2006, 03:37   #10
Variant TDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SS, MD.
Fuel Economy: 36.4min/44average/56.4max. Recently improved commuting from 42mpg to 50mpg with 'new' driving habits and Scangauge.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASTDI
Thank you.........not only is coal produced electricity dirty
This statement is nearly as dated as that Dump truck with which people ignorantly judge your TDI. Coal has come a long way.

Quote:
as with the hybrids what do you do with all the lead based batteries when it's time??
From a secret agreement between GW and the Devil, all the Lead Acid batteries from Hybrid cars will end up stored in William Jefferson's freezer. Don't worry... there will be plenty of room after the money was removed... even if Hybrid sales reach into the millions.

Quote:
Won't even get into the petroleum based plastics and rubber used to produce the electric cars........
Phew... and all this time, I thought that non-electric cars required plastic and rubber too.
__________________
--Tim (member: 900 Club... x4, best: 56.4mpg)

2002 Golf Wagon TDI - - 1996 GTI VR6 - - Flickr


Last edited by Variant TDI; June 29th, 2006 at 03:41.
Variant TDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2006, 12:36   #11
supton
Veteran Member
 
supton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Central NH (USA)
Fuel Economy: 53/46/33
Default

Hey, with all the recent discussions of Btu/mile (for efficency), anyone want to look into NOx grams / Btu for coal plants? CO2 g/Btu, SO2 g/Btu, etc. Recently on this board was the assertion that even the dirtiest power plants are 4-6 times cleaner cars; no sources were given. But for a true apples to apples comparasion, what are the numbers?

I'd try to figure it out myself, but I don't have the time nor do I know where to look; and I probably wouldn't be able to tell the crackpots from the real numbers.
__________________
'04 Jetta Wagen 5spd GLS, 314kmiles, Koni Red's, SBC stage 2 clutch, VNT17, RC2 sold
'11 Camry base 6spd manual, 95k, wife's
'10 Tundra double cab, 4.6L, 95k, mine
supton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2006, 12:40   #12
MrErlo
Veteran Member
 
MrErlo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Omaha, NE
Fuel Economy: lifetime 45.52, best 61.18
Default

you mentioned NOx emissions which is one of the biggest complaints against BioD AFAIK. people have reported that this is because the NOx removal systems deteriorate when exposed to sulphur. but with zero sulphur in BioD and ULSD couldn't VW put in a NOx removal system? i haven't seen a thread about that yet, but am very interested in overcoming this hurdle in the widespread BioD acceptance.

if i get really bored later i might find some time to try to work out those g/Btu numbers. for right now, i've got a project that i actually enjoy working on.
MrErlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2006, 13:57   #13
veedubs66
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kitchener/ Cambridge, Ontario
TDI(s): '02 Golf TDI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC
Add a plug-in to that diesel hybrid so we can charge the batts from home with roof mounted PVs and micro windmills, fuel it with the B100 from the biod plant 2 miles down the road..... and I believe we are close to were we need to be.
I know it's not a diesel, but a step in the right direction...

http://www.edrivesystems.com/index.html

and for those of us in canada: http://www.hymotion.com/index.htm

a combination of plug-in diesel/electric hybrid running on bio would be awesome!
__________________
I need heated seats!

Last edited by veedubs66; June 29th, 2006 at 14:01.
veedubs66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2006, 18:52   #14
david_594
Veteran Member
 
david_594's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boston,MA
Fuel Economy: 51.7/48.2/40.7
Default

One of the biggest advantages with electric cars is that we are adding flexibility to the energy source of vehicles. If gasoline were to go away tommorow electric cars would still work, same with coal, natural gas, nuclear, biomass, solar and wind. They are not dependant on any one thing.

Coal power is dirty? So what? I live a mile down the road from a hydroelectic damn that generates part of our towns power. Some people on the board here have photovoltaic cells on their homes and generate their own electricity. Windmills are cool to. The point is there are plenty of clean ways to get electricy.
david_594 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2006, 20:13   #15
VEGASTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Variant TDI
This statement is nearly as dated as that Dump truck with which people ignorantly judge your TDI. Coal has come a long way..
You're right, and the country did NOT suffer a major black out a few years back due to an antiquated electrical grid, and coal is a clean renewable energy source.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Variant TDI
From a secret agreement between GW and the Devil, all the Lead Acid batteries from Hybrid cars will end up stored in William Jefferson's freezer. Don't worry... there will be plenty of room after the money was removed... even if Hybrid sales reach into the millions...
Sorry, your attempt at humor escapes me...............I have yet to see any PROOF that the TOTAL (not just the initial )eco savings of an electric car was that different than a 40 MPG gasoline or 50 MPG diesel car.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Variant TDI
Phew... and all this time, I thought that non-electric cars required plastic and rubber too.

Again, your sarcasm is lost on me...........your statement was my whole point. Both vehicles still use petroleum based products to manufacture, one may pollute less up front but has more green issues later on.

While I believe in oil company conspiracies...........this was not one of them. If it were, the lame attempts would not have even been tried.
__________________
'06 Jetta, '06 Mustang GT, '01 F-250 V10, '02 Ford Ranger, '70 Faux BOSS 302 Mustang, '69 Ford Bronco, '04 Kawasaki ZX12R, '06 GAS GAS 300 trials bike,'99 Husky 610, '06 Yamaha Raptor 700, a pair of SEA-DOOS, Kubota L3710 tractor, Takeuchi mini-excavator.....I think that's it!!

Last edited by VEGASTDI; June 29th, 2006 at 20:16.
VEGASTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.16815 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 133.99 Kb. compressed to 111.60 Kb. by saving 22.39 Kb. (16.71%)]