2010 JSW requires Italian Tune ups to Run Smoothly

ricks

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Location
False City, WA.
TDI
'10 Jetta Sportwagen
If I drive it conservatively and shift at 1500 RPM after a week or so the car starts to run rough and stumble. Periodically now I wring it out to almost redline (when fully warmed up) and at first it will stumble at high RPMs until it clears its throat and then runs fine. A few weeks back on a 4 hour drive on a 2 laner, I needed to over take a slower vehicle (it was doing 50 in a 55) I had it up to 75 when the TDi coughed and noticed a big plume of black sooty smoke in the rear view mirror. The car ran fine after that. But if I baby it now, it starts to complain until I wring it out and then all is back to normal. I need to drive the sports wagen in a more sporting way to keep it happy. Any one else have this going on?
 

SomeJ

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Location
central New Mexico
TDI
2011 JSW TDI 6m
I have noticed that if i baby mine it tends to run sluggish and a good wring out does clear it up as you say. I believe and others have said this too is that it might have to do with the dpf getting clogged up faster with the babying and the high rpm push will help clean it out (higher temps and more airflow to burn and push the soot out). My self, I have decided to enjoy the car and not care quite so much about fe, and I have found the car has a much different peppy personality. The harder I run it the more responsive it seems to be, almost like it enjoys it and wants more. It is "nice" to hypermile and enjoy the high fe numbers though, just gotta let her loose every now and then to clean out the cobwebs ;) :D

Enjoy!
J
 

BarnyardsTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Location
Sacramento California
TDI
2010 Golf w/DSG, Malone Stage 2 (all emissions intact), HID's, Sunroof, Dynaudio, NAV
Never had a plume of smoke come out the back end. A few times I week I have it out on the highway. Most of our roads here in Austin have some good hills to charge up from 60-70mph. Gets everything nice and hot and burns of some soot that might be on the turbo. Also, even though I drive a DSG I would say shifting at 1,500 RPM is a bit low. Most guys will tell you to take it up to at least 1,800 for turbo spool. Just listen to your car and do get on it every now and then. Diesels live to work!
 

ValveCoverGasket

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Location
pnw
TDI
colorado duramax, 1z vanagon, tdi touareg
you may have a cracked or damaged dpf if you were seeing black smoke on hard accelerations like that.
 

scdevon

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
USA
TDI
None
If you have a plume of black smoke on a CR car, something is wrong (unless you have a DPF delete). Nothing visible like that should make it past the DPF.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Shifting conservatively is shifting below 3000rpm, not 1500. TDI's don't like to be babied.
 
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tcp_ip_dude

Veteran Member
Joined
May 14, 2010
Location
Cape Fear area, NC
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI Sedan
Shifting conservatively is shifting below 3000rpm, not 1500. TDI's don't like to be babied.
^^^^ This!!

OP, your car is talking to you about your driving style, you should listen to it.. ;)

Keep RPMS above 1800, preferably above 2000. Max torque comes on at 1750rpm, that is where the engine starts being 'happy'. These engines like to be exercised and rev'ed and by that I don't mean an occasional "Italian Tune Up" once a day, once a week, etc. Operating at 1500 on a regular basis is asking for issues with your VNT vanes, DPF, EGR, etc.. IMHO of course.. :)
 

tcp_ip_dude

Veteran Member
Joined
May 14, 2010
Location
Cape Fear area, NC
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI Sedan
you may have a cracked or damaged dpf if you were seeing black smoke on hard accelerations like that.
If you have a plume of black smoke on a CR car, something is wrong (unless you have a DPF delete). Nothing visible like that should make it past the DPF.

^^^ This.. scdevon and ValveCover are right..

OP, your DPF is designed to capture almost every bit of particulate matter (smoke), other than steam/water vapor (white), you should not see anything like that out of the exhaust system on a new CR engine (assuming no DPF delete).. I can swab the end of my tail pipe with my finger and after 45000 miles it is absolutely clean, no soot or carbon at all.. (I use this test to shut up Prius drivers who tell me my diesel is dirty, I ask them to swab their tail pipe; it returns a jet-black finger tip)
 
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n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
If I drive it conservatively and shift at 1500 RPM after a week or so the car starts to run rough and stumble. Periodically now I wring it out to almost redline (when fully warmed up) and at first it will stumble at high RPMs until it clears its throat and then runs fine. A few weeks back on a 4 hour drive on a 2 laner, I needed to over take a slower vehicle (it was doing 50 in a 55) I had it up to 75 when the TDi coughed and noticed a big plume of black sooty smoke in the rear view mirror. The car ran fine after that. But if I baby it now, it starts to complain until I wring it out and then all is back to normal. I need to drive the sports wagen in a more sporting way to keep it happy. Any one else have this going on?
Upshifting at 1500 RPM is waaay to early! You're not doing your engine any favors and asking for troubles by putting along at low RPMs and short/early shifting it.

TDI engines thrive on being regularly run hard and are designed to be run hard and kept "on boost" all the time. That also means you need to keep the engine RPMs in the RPM range where the engine is designed to run in. The CR TDIs make peak torque in the 1750-2400 RPM range and peak HP around 4000 RPM. From about 1800 RPM to 4000 RPM is the RPM range where you're supposed to play in and where the TDI engine is designed to be run.

The following guidelines are taken from Drivbiwire's break-in guidelines and agree with my experience from my own driving style. These are also general rules that apply not only to initial break-in but for the life of the car.

When accelerating normally with a COLD engine, upshift at NO LESS THAN 2500 RPM. You don't need to wind the p!$$ out of it but get the RPMs up to at least 2500 RPM before shifting. Be kind to it during the intial warm up but still get the RPMs up while under a light load.

When accelerating normally with a WARM engine, upshift at NO LESS THAN 3000 RPM. At this point it's OK to go pedal to the metal if needed.

When you need max acceleration, go pedal to the metal and wind it up to around 3500-4000 RPM before shifting. Anything beyond 4000 RPM is a waste unless you have a performance tune and supporting modifications that enable the engine to make more power above 4000 RPM.

After you've finished accelerating and reached your CRUISE speed, use whatever gear puts the engine in the 2000-2200 RPM range. This is the RPM range to cruise along at, NOT at 1500 RPM or below! In a CR TDI, keeping the RPMs near 2000 RPM while cruising along is best for passive regeneration of the DPF.

Whatever you do, AVOID heavy throttle in any gear when under around 1800 RPM. Lugging is still lugging, whether gas or diesel, and is bad for both. It's OK to putt along at idle in 1st or second gear in a parking lot for example while looking for a parking spot, because the engine is under practically no load. What's bad is trying to climb a hill on the highway with your foot to the floor and in too high a gear, causing the engine to be at or under ~ 1500 RPM.

Following the guidelines above will help you keep the engine operating in the RPM range where it's designed to be run in and will help you make better use of the available power. Winding the engine up to 3000 RPM before shifting will help you land around 2000 RPM in the next gear...right where it should be to prevent lugging and make use of the torque available.

A great place to get on the power and run through the gears is a long highway on-ramp, especially an uphill ramp. This is where I regularly get on the power and wind my TDI up to 4000 RPM in each gear as I get up to highway speed. With my daily commute, I get to do this 3-4 times a day and my TDIs love it. :cool:

Fellow TDI forum members are serious when the recommend that you "Drive it like you stole it" to keep a TDI running well and for a long time.

Good luck.
 
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ricks

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Location
False City, WA.
TDI
'10 Jetta Sportwagen
Appreciate all the input and great responses. I shall reform for the life of my car and shift at 2500ish when cold, 3000 when hot, and cruise at 2000 to 22000. I shall see if MPG goes up or down with the new regime.
 

canux

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Location
Toronto
TDI
2013 Beetle TDI
If I drive it conservatively and shift at 1500 RPM after a week or so the car starts to run rough and stumble.
Because it is doing a re-gen. If you baby the car you will notice this more often than if you don't.

Do you need to drive your CR like you stole it? Your car has been designed for a particular use-case: a normal driver. Not too aggressive, not too conservative. The more you move away from that use-case the more problems you will have.

As has been pointed out though, black smoke is worrisome and something to get checked out if it happens again.
 

irondogger

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Location
South Texas
TDI
'12 Sportwagen TDI
"Italian Tune Up?"

I have never heard of an 'Italian tune-up' prior to this post. We are fortunate in Central, South, & West Texas as we have 75 to 85 MPH roads which the TDI seems to like. However my pocketbook see a marked disgorging during these excursions.

My granddad used to say that every once in awhile the engine needs a good blowing out, which was back in the 50s which was about 70 mph. Anyway pick a lower gear and run it hard for a bit. Find a good mountain pass occasionally and run it hard.

L8r,........irondogger
 

ihatespeed

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Location
holbrook, ma
TDI
11 tdi wagon 6mt 15 golf 6mt (Wife's) 2000 Ford 350 7.3l 6mt 4x4 (technically a TDI)
my turbo tends to hang up if I make a bunch of short cold trips in a week, quick cycle on the boost controller with vcds and all is good, but these cars do need their turbos up to temp occasionally (like every drive preferably) to keep the vanes from gumming up, you got to remember the turbo is before the emmisions system, and like the egr, it gets the brunt of cooling sooty exhaust before the dpf gets a crack at it..
 

frugality

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Location
Spring Lake, Michigan
TDI
none, 2016 GTI
Remember the intercooler condensation issue, too. Especially since we're getting into spring. I've found that spring and fall have been the times when it happens most -- when the air is moist but cool. Gotta rev it up now and then to blow any condensed water out of the pipes. Otherwise, if you collect too much and then get on it -- right as you need power, getting up to speed on an on-ramp -- it'll ingest the water and sputter and kick out some white smoke (fog, really.)
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Location
Palmyra, PA
TDI
'12 Jetta Sportwagen
This all makes sense to me, and I've followed drivbywire's recommendations since mile 0 in my 2012 JSW... but why does the MFD insist on shifting so early?
 

T100TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Location
Des Moines, IA
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI 6MT
I taped over the idiot light on my car. Even though I'd try to ignore it and just go by the feel of the car I would second guess myself because of the MFD display. From all that I've read the light is there for fuel economy testing so the testers granny shift.
 

rolling18

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Location
Portland OR
TDI
03 Jetter 5 Sp.
This all makes sense to me, and I've followed drivbywire's recommendations since mile 0 in my 2012 JSW... but why does the MFD insist on shifting so early?
yes, would it be preferable to use "sport" mode as the "default" on the DSG after it has warmed up?

What effects will all this above have on the MPG's? (main reason most buy TDI)
 

jagipson

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Location
Austin, TX; USA
TDI
JSW 2013 Mid-trim
If the MFD shift light is there for max economy, and I bought the car chiefly because of it's economy, then how do I get around fouling issues? I have about 1600 on my '13 JSW and have had no problem with turbine fouling or DPF AFAIK.

I like the quiet economy of shifting at 1500-1800 RPM. Would there be no harm in driving it like this, as long as I took it on the highway twice a month?
 

SoTxBill

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 14, 2000
Location
its not the base, its the additives!!
TDI
13 passatdsg 10 jetdsg, 09 jetdsg, 2006 jetdsg, 2001Jet, 96passat, 86jet, 81 jet, 78pickup all vw diesel.
BACK when thermostats were set at 140 and 160, and people had carburetors and manual chokes, and engines ran rich, with poor non detergent oils that waxed up and caused piston coking..

an itailian tune up meant that you got the engine up to temperature and run it long enough to clean up the plugs, and but off the soot and excess oil in the cyl.


Engine with emission, injections and 200 degree running temps do NOT need Italian tune ups.
 

Jake Brake

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Location
southern IL
TDI
2005 Passat GLS tdi wagon
Italian tune up, haven't heard that in a while lol.

Glad i read this post, I just bought a low mileage 2010 Jetta tdi sport wagon. I didn't know they liked to be run hard to keep the DPF cleaned out.
 

lrpavlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Location
Cocoa FL
TDI
09 Sportwagen DSG, 02 NB Auto
Wow! haven't heard that Bill Cosby on in many moons! Fantastic!!! Thankx Dean!
 

frugality

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Location
Spring Lake, Michigan
TDI
none, 2016 GTI
Wow! haven't heard that Bill Cosby on in many moons! Fantastic!!! Thankx Dean!
:D

Hey Lew, good to hear from you! Hope things are well for you down in FL. Spring finally decided to show up here today. I think. We'll see!

My dad has all of those old Bill Cosby recordings on LP....between that and Loony Tunes and the Muppet Show....it made me what I am today! :D
 
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