White smoke no start after resetting timing

TDI97

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Location
Anaheim
TDI
97 Jetta
So long story short I had to replace my n108 valve. Stripped the bolts trying to do it without removing the IP so I had to remove the IP which obviously involves the timing. Made some paint marks so the IP went back in the same orientation, set my timing, and nothing.

Whoops, forgot the lock pin when I put the belt back on so IP was off 2 teeth.

Redo it all again. Lock pin, cam shaft bar, timing mark on flywheel are lined up. Put belt back on. Rotate engine a few times. Cam bar and lock pin line up, but fly wheel is slightly off.

Screw it. Put it back together, try to start, white smoke out the exhaust but no start.

Is the flywheel mark being off the problem? It was all lined up before and after putting the belt back on and tensioning it. Just not after manually rotating the engine. Or am I missing something else? The IP is in the exact same position it was in prior to taking anything apart. I cracked the fuel lines and cranked it to get the air out of the lines and there's no bubbles in my clear fuel line. Unless there's air in the IP? I'm at a loss, I'm about ready to burn this car to the ground.

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JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
The cam bar and the flywheel will need to be right. The pump pin gets you on the right belt tooth at best and sometimes it is not a dead match depending on the age and mileage on the belt. Putting the pump in the position it was before it was removed will help (assuming it was in the right spot to begin with). Once you are there, if you are getting fuel in the cylinders but get white smoke out of the exhaust, try rotating the top of the pump body to the rear of the engine little by little until it starts to catch.


The way to tell if the injectors are firing in earnest is to remove the glow plugs and crank until you see the fuel mist shooting out of all four plug holes. It is easier to bleed the system that way and easier on the starter and battery, too. Stick the glow plugs back in.

Once that happens it is a matter of rotating the pump in the right spot and then adjusting the timing in with VCDS in group 000 of basic settings in the engine controller.

See setting the injection timing in TDI101 forum "HOW TOs" for more details.
 
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JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
One other thing....did you put the key in the keyway in the shaft slot?
 

TDI97

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Location
Anaheim
TDI
97 Jetta
One other thing....did you put the key in the keyway in the shaft slot?
Shaft slot? On the crank shaft? Had a feeling I was probably missing a tool for that. Didn't make sense it wasn't locked in place. I'll try retiming and moving the IP towards the block a little. It stumbled a hair last time I tried starting it. So I know it's close.

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KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Proper sequence is to remove the pump pin before tensioning the belt. Sounds like you didn't do it since the pump and cam are lined up but not with the crank.

Done properly the pump sprocket/shaft will move a little along with the cam sprocket when the belt is tensioned.

You then adjust the pump alone to get the timing after the cam is torqued.

If the pump remains pinned during tensioning there can be slack between the pump and crank. You torque the cam, rotate the motor, and the tensioner takes up that slack leaving the condition you have which is presumably a retarded cam. (And pump)

Not to mention a somewhat undertensioned belt.

I'm thinking JET is referring to the pump key.
 
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greenskeeper

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
Redo it all again. Lock pin, cam shaft bar, timing mark on flywheel are lined up. Put belt back on. Rotate engine a few times. Cam bar and lock pin line up, but fly wheel is slightly off.

Screw it. Put it back together, try to start, white smoke out the exhaust but no start.
Your timing is probably really LATE so your getting the white smoke due to the fuel being injected well after TDC.

Pin the crank at TDC along with the cam and IP. Should start after that so you can fine tune the timing with vagcom
 

TDI97

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Location
Anaheim
TDI
97 Jetta
Proper sequence is to remove the pump pin before tensioning the belt. Sounds like you didn't do it since the pump and cam are lined up but not with the crank.

Done properly the pump sprocket/shaft will move a little along with the cam sprocket when the belt is tensioned.

You then adjust the pump alone to get the timing after the cam is torqued.

If the pump remains pinned during tensioning there can be slack between the pump and crank. You torque the cam, rotate the motor, and the tensioner takes up that slack leaving the condition you have which is presumably a retarded cam. (And pump)

Not to mention a somewhat undertensioned belt.

I'm thinking JET is referring to the pump key.
Okay, so I need to reset everything again. I did get it to start by advancing the IP but it's just dumping smoke out the exhaust and giving me a 00550 code on vag com. Field 2 is stuck at 255 and field 9 was gradually moving higher. my graph also doesn't look the same as what's in the service manual.

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greenskeeper

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
Okay, so I need to reset everything again. I did get it to start by advancing the IP but it's just dumping smoke out the exhaust and giving me a 00550 code on vag com. Field 2 is stuck at 255 and field 9 was gradually moving higher. my graph also doesn't look the same as what's in the service manual.

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timing is still too late because the flywheel timing was off. Pump adjustment is only so much.
 

TDI97

Active member
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Jun 18, 2018
Location
Anaheim
TDI
97 Jetta
timing is still too late because the flywheel timing was off. Pump adjustment is only so much.
Got it. I'll give it another try next weekend. Fortunately it's not currently my daily although its supposed to be. Haha .

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JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
Shaft slot? On the crank shaft? Had a feeling I was probably missing a tool for that. Didn't make sense it wasn't locked in place.
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The woodruff key in the injection pump shaft that mates with the keyway in the IP pulley. It can fall out unnoticed if you are not aware it is there.
 
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TDI97

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Location
Anaheim
TDI
97 Jetta
The woodruff key in the injection pump shaft that mates with the keyway in the IP pulley. I can fall out unnoticed if you are not aware it is there.
Oh, yup. Almost lost that when I pulled the IP sprocket. It's definitely back in there.

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TDI97

Active member
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Jun 18, 2018
Location
Anaheim
TDI
97 Jetta
So try as I might. I can't get the IP to line back up correctly. Cam and crank line up, but IP lock won't. I followed the book to the T. Line everything up. Locked the IP and cam. Knocked the cam sprocket loose. Removed tension. Made sure everything was still lined up. Put the belt back on. Pull the IP lock. Put the roller on. Tensioned. Pulled cam lock. Rotated twice, but the IP is off like 1 tooth so the IP lock won't line up. Book says to rotate IP until it lines up. Doesn't matter which way I rotate I run out of adjustment before the lock goes in. Still out of time and it won't start without advancing the IP way ahead. Hence more white smoke.

So where am I failing here? I'm fairly mechanically inclined but this one driving me insane.

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KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Once you tension the belt with the pump pin out it won't go back in. That's normal.

When you install the belt there is some slack between the pump and crank sprockets. Then when you remove the pin and tension the belt that slack gets removed and the pump sprocket moves. Maybe very little and you can squeeze the pin in, maybe more and it isn't close.

I've had to advance the pump a tooth when installing the belt from the pinned position on my '98 to get it to run. Not last time. I think it's a matter of how the belt fits with its bends from packaging.

I've read where some guys "lean" on the pump pin when putting the belt on to help minimize the slack between the crank and pump.

Maybe try that or move the crank a little BTC, installing the belt then move it back. Might find that works for you.

The important static things are cam/crank alignment and tension.
 

greenskeeper

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
It's been a while (so my memory may be off) but on my old 98 I locked the cam (equal feeler gauge space on either side of the tool) with the pulley loose. Then pinned the crank at TDC and pinned the IP pump. With all of the "slack" at the tensioner I would then tighten the cam sprocket and then adjust the tensioner until the tabs lined up. I did about 5 TB on that car and never had an issue with things not lining up. After rotating the engine 2 revolutions everything would always go back into place.
 

TDI97

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Location
Anaheim
TDI
97 Jetta
Figured I'd post an update in case anyone else searching comes across this thread. God knows I've run across a ton of threads with no updates while dealing with this car and it's pretty damned annoying.

Ordered all new belts, new crank sprocket, harmonic balancer, and bolts. Ignored it all for a couple months but finally got around to handling it all. Put the new crank sprocket on, set the timing marks/locks, put the new crank belt on, and tensioned it. Spun it 2 revolutions and I was just a hair off on the IP lock, but everything otherwise matched up. Crank her up, good to go. Started on the first try so I hooked up vagcom and adjusted the IP until I was right smack in the middle of the chart for timing. Cleared the codes and called it.

Runs well, although I think I may still have an air bubble in the fuel from pulling the IP out to change the solenoid. I'm getting a random P1248 code (I think it's 00550 in vagcom) and having some power issues pulling up hills. What's weird is that I'm not necessarily going into limp mode because I can take my food off the gas, and then hit the gas again, and I'll have power for about 5-10 secs before it fades again. I'll figure that one when I have time, but otherwise I can drive it around town again. Just need to avoid long hills.
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Your problem wouldn't be from a "bubble". Once it's running any air will work its way out. The IP circulates a lot more fuel than it injects.

You may have a leak letting air in. The tee on the filter is the usual suspect but could be anywhere between the pickup in the tank and the pump.
 

iluvmydiesels

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
the 'second time' thru, i dont even put the cam lock in. i know the way i do it the timing is right on. like klxd pointed out the pump pin will be just a little out here, if you put cam lock back in. in rotating the tensioner, with-at that time the pump pin pulled, the belt will have slack taken out, everything other than the crank are allowed some movement.
also theres no real way to put the cam lock back in and guarantee what your looking at(the timing marks)are 100% accurate. you rotate crank 2 turns, get to tdc, in order to put cam lock back in you will need to move cam slightly, id use the crescent wrench, and put feeler gauge in, again needs wrench to fit it in. by moving the cam the marks you look at are not as accurate as your looking at. the belt in doing this will move,some, and you put lock in(& feeler), you look back at marks, not realizing its moved probably slightly. i in the 2nd crank turn, use the 2-turns without binding, hitting valves, as my guide, and take a quick look at the 3 timing marks, and final assembly here.
 

greenskeeper

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
Your problem wouldn't be from a "bubble". Once it's running any air will work its way out. The IP circulates a lot more fuel than it injects.
You may have a leak letting air in. The tee on the filter is the usual suspect but could be anywhere between the pickup in the tank and the pump.
Agree. I eliminated that stupid tee right after purchasing my old 98. A filter from a 1.6 diesel will fit right in, only have to splice the fuel line that the old tee would have connected to. ZERO air bubbles after the change.
 
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