Need confirmation on which front wheel bearing is shot

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
My car makes excessive "road noise" if I'm not banking slightly to the right. If I'm going straight or left, it's constantly singing to me. I thought this would go away after I replaced the tires I ran for so long on a poor alignment, but it didn't.

Pretty sure this means my right side is bad, can anyone confirm?
 

jhax

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
96 Passat B4V, ALH engine out of a 2002 Jetta, some IE Rods and ASV Pistons. Nothing drivable yet though
If you jack up your car, with the wheel that is in the air, grab the top and bottom of the tire and wiggle it. If there is play in the top and bottom, a new wheel bearing is required. As far as I know this works with sealed bearings as well.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
This is always a tough one. Because sound can travel in strange ways and can be hard to pinpoint from inside.

The rear bearings on your car are easy. They are simple old fashioned tapered roller bearings, large inner, small outer, and can be taken apart and easily examined for any pitting in the rollers and/or races, and addressed accordingly.

The fronts are not so simple. They are a dual ball bearing, sealed, and not serviceable. When you swerve to one side, the outer bearing on one side gets loaded more, and the inner bearing on the other side gets loaded more. So the convention of "if the noise increases when I go this way, then the opposite side bearing must be bad" does not really apply. Trust me, been fooled quite a few times.

Whenever possible, I like to lift the car up and (on driven wheels, anyway) run the car at some speed to try and get it to make the noise, and put my stethoscope on the carrier...often I can isolate the offending bearing this way. But it has to be bad enough that it makes at least some noise all the time, not just when swerving.

Oh, and your front bearings should have no play in them. If they do, they are bad.

Honestly, on a car that old, I'd plan on doing both of them if you do one anyway. You'll have all the tools out (they are pressed into the carriers), and they are not all that expensive. Even good ones. Just make sure they get installed properly.
 

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
This is always a tough one. Because sound can travel in strange ways and can be hard to pinpoint from inside.
The rear bearings on your car are easy. They are simple old fashioned tapered roller bearings, large inner, small outer, and can be taken apart and easily examined for any pitting in the rollers and/or races, and addressed accordingly.
The fronts are not so simple. They are a dual ball bearing, sealed, and not serviceable. When you swerve to one side, the outer bearing on one side gets loaded more, and the inner bearing on the other side gets loaded more. So the convention of "if the noise increases when I go this way, then the opposite side bearing must be bad" does not really apply. Trust me, been fooled quite a few times.
Whenever possible, I like to lift the car up and (on driven wheels, anyway) run the car at some speed to try and get it to make the noise, and put my stethoscope on the carrier...often I can isolate the offending bearing this way. But it has to be bad enough that it makes at least some noise all the time, not just when swerving.
Oh, and your front bearings should have no play in them. If they do, they are bad.
Honestly, on a car that old, I'd plan on doing both of them if you do one anyway. You'll have all the tools out (they are pressed into the carriers), and they are not all that expensive. Even good ones. Just make sure they get installed properly.
Thanks for the help! I went ahead and ordered two sets, so I might as well do them both at the same time. Both rear bearings were recently changed, and the whole front end suspension was rebuilt. Didn't think I really needed bearings at the time though.

I just plan on removing the knuckles with the struts still attached so I won't mess the alignment up, and pressing the races out. Unless O'Reilley will rent me everything I need. Do you happen to know off hand what size I should machine my round for pressing the races out?

EDIT: I'll add that I didn't notice any play in the suspension once I finished the control arms/ball joints/tie rods. So thankfully I don't think it's a dire issue yet.
 
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jhax

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
96 Passat B4V, ALH engine out of a 2002 Jetta, some IE Rods and ASV Pistons. Nothing drivable yet though
Rather than going into town, why not just call them and give them a reference number for the tool you need based on this website and they can tell you if they have it.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Yeah, you have to pull the spindle off the ball joint to get axle out but you can put it back on, extract the wheel bearing and then install the new one.

If you think you might be doing more than just a couple bearings Harbor Freight has a nice kit I've used at least 8 times now. Well worth having around versus having to borrow from the auto parts store. It also works on a lot more bearings or situations where a press is needed.

To actually figure out which one it is I would raise the car on jackstands then jack the control arm up until the strut mount reseats into the housing up top, then grab the tire at 12 and 6 and gently rock it back and forth seeing whether there's any slack in the bearing. The one with the greatest slack should be the culprit.

Good luck

Steve A
 
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thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Rather than going into town, why not just call them and give them a reference number for the tool you need based on this website and they can tell you if they have it.
Even better!

Yeah, you have to pull the spindle off the ball joint to get axle out but you can put it back on, extract the wheel bearing and then install the new one.

If you think you might be doing more than just a couple bearings Harbor Freight has a nice kit I've used at least 8 times now. Well worth having around versus having to borrow from the auto parts store. It also works on a lot more bearings or situations where a press is needed.

To actually figure out which one it is I would raise the car on jackstands then jack the control arm up until the strut mount reseats into the housing up top, then grab the tire at 12 and 6 and gently rock it back and forth seeing whether there's any slack in the bearing. The one with the greatest slack should be the culprit.

Good luck

Steve A
I wouldn't mind having the kit to keep around, just don't know if I can shell out any more money after putting new tires on two vehicles last week! :eek:

Is this the set you were talking about? I'd still need the slide hammer too.

https://www.harborfreight.com/front-wheel-bearing-adapters-63728.html
 

Jetta SS

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Location
Grand Bay, AL
TDI
'98 Jetta
I had the same thing happen 3 years ago with the noise that went away when turning. It was the rear wheel bearings.


Are you sure it's the fronts? No special tools needed for the rear.
 

ToddA1

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Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
There’s no slide hammer needed for the HF kit. You’ll still need a bearing separator or a cut off wheel to separate the inner race from the hub. I’ve done the latter for over a decade.

I’ve been taking the entire strut assembly to the press for 2 decades. It’s not terrible to do it this way, especially if you have access to a press.

-Todd
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Even better!
I wouldn't mind having the kit to keep around, just don't know if I can shell out any more money after putting new tires on two vehicles last week! :eek:
Is this the set you were talking about? I'd still need the slide hammer too.
https://www.harborfreight.com/front-wheel-bearing-adapters-63728.html
Yep, that's the kit I have and I paid about $40 more than that when I bought it some years ago. It's really invaluable for pressing in all sorts of things, bearings, bushings etc.

There’s no slide hammer needed for the HF kit. You’ll still need a bearing separator or a cut off wheel to separate the inner race from the hub. I’ve done the latter for over a decade.

I’ve been taking the entire strut assembly to the press for 2 decades. It’s not terrible to do it this way, especially if you have access to a press.

-Todd
Todd's right, you don't need slide hammer with the kit but you will likely need a cut off wheel to get the inner race off the hub. I think only one time I had the bearing come off complete, otherwise the inner half of the race is left behind on the hub.

I use a dremel with a cut-off wheel to remove that last bit. I get a good portion of the old race cut through and then take a chisel and tap it to break apart what's left. It then just slides off the hub.

Alternatively you can just buy new hubs too but that's another expense I'd prefer to not have.

Steve
 

thechoochlyman

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Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Instead of buying or renting a bearing removal tool, I think I'm just going to make one in the shop today.

So, let me get this right - all I need is the following:
1) Disc slightly under the OD of the bearing with a threaded hole
2) Cup with an ID slightly over the OD of the bearing it can slide into from the outside end, with a hole for the bolt to go through it
3) Whatever size bolt I decide to use
4) Maybe a flat disc bigger than the OD of the bearing to brace against the end of the knuckle to pull in the bearing

Does that about cover it? I'll also obviously need a puller to get the Hub off, as well as a cutoff wheel for the bearing race (or maybe a torch).
 

ToddA1

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Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
Whatever you make for 1 and 4 will likely be the same. You may be able to use the same to pull the hub into the inner races.

If you cut the inner race, on the hub, it can be removed by hand.

-Todd
 

thechoochlyman

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Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Whatever you make for 1 and 4 will likely be the same. You may be able to use the same to pull the hub into the inner races.

If you cut the inner race, on the hub, it can be removed by hand.

-Todd

I just realized I didn't have one bigger than the inner race to pull the hub on with. I'll machine that piece with two diameters - one for pulling out the bearing from the knuckle, the other for pulling the hub into the inner bearing races.
 

thechoochlyman

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Joined
May 7, 2015
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Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Ok, I think I'm ready to roll. Just need to get some all-thread, nuts, and washers together. All 304 Stainless I'm pretty certain. After I make sure they work fine I might offer to rent them out if anybody is in need.

 

glenn1179

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Oct 3, 2005
Location
wausau, wi
TDI
na
NICE!

Please tell me you need to do the rear beam bushings and will be making a tool for that and will offer it for rent too. :)
 

thechoochlyman

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Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
NICE!

Please tell me you need to do the rear beam bushings and will be making a tool for that and will offer it for rent too. :)
I probably do need to replace the rear bushings, but haven't gotten that far yet. Lol I'm sure I probably can make a tool though!

As for the wheel bearings, the tool I made worked perfectly. Write-up coming soon.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
NICE!

Please tell me you need to do the rear beam bushings and will be making a tool for that and will offer it for rent too. :)
You can actually make it pretty reasonably, Abacus has one he made out of a 3" pipe cap I think.

The tool I bought to do the rear beam bushings wasn't all that expensive, maybe $60 and it does more than just the B3/4 bushings.

Steve
 

glenn1179

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Location
wausau, wi
TDI
na
I've found a couple of Abacus's posts where he made them out of end caps. If I can find end caps large enough, I may try that as it will give me an excuse to use the welder, which is a new toy for me.
 
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