LuK DMF Clutch Install Problem

Installing a LuK DMF in a 1997 1Z Passat. After bolting down the flywheel, I noticed the engine wasn't trying to turn as I torqued the bolts. It seems that the back side of the flywheel is jamming against the back of the block.



What am I missing? I thought these clutches were compatible with the 1Z.

Is it single or dual mass? Looking at LUK kits it seems as if they are dual mass. Maybe 1z isnt compatible with a dual mass flywheel?

The car came with single mass. I thought I researched this pretty well, and we were quite sure the DMF LuK would be a bolt in replacement. Guess I'll be going the route of a South Bend single mass set up after all.

Why did you decide on the LUK DMF?

I wanted the added refinement of the DMF and with my mild mods, was pretty confident it would hold. I have lifted the product descriptions from 2 vendors that are very reputable. Please note that I am not attempting to give anybody bad press. Here are the descriptions off the websites:

From IDParts:

"This is the real deal: the LUK clutch and flywheel kit that came in '99.5 TDIs. Light pedal, holds more power than the OE clutch, brand new dual mass flywheel for smooth running.

This clutch kit is an ideal replacement for people with modified TDIs (chip and/or nozzles) that want to keep the pedal feel and smoothness of a dual mass flywheel at a very reasonable cost. It will fit all TDIs from 1999.5 to 2006, including MKV TDIs with 5 speed manual transmissions. It will also fit in A3 and B4 TDIs if you want to upgrade your older car to this much smoother clutch with a dual mass flywheel."

And from Bora Parts:

"The LUK flywheel and clutch kit was OE equipment on all 1999.5 Golfs and Jetta cars until early 2000. The replacement SACHS clutches didn't clamp as well, even though they used a larger 230mm disc. The LUK therefore is an ideal replacement clutch for owners wanting more clamping strength while retaining the smoothness and lack of chatter inherent with a dual mass flywheel setup.

We tested a kit to hold 273 lb/feet of torque. If you need more we have modified kits available that hold a LOT more torque! Please contact us for details or search our website."

This clutch will fit A3, B4, and A5 TDIs, which makes it an economical upgrade for the A5s with failing clutches. This kit is good for holding up to about 300 lbs. of torque. This kit comes complete with disc, throwout bearing, pressure plate, flywheel, alignment tool and 6 pressure plate and 6 flywheel bolts (bolts not pictured). On MK4 and MK5 cars it's recommended that you pick up the transmission stretch bolts as well.


Fits the following:
1996-1997 VW Passat TDI 5-speed
1993-2007 VW Jetta/Golf (TDI, some 1.8T 5-speed)
1998+ New Beetle TDI & 1.8T 5-speed
2000-2001 AUDI TT 1.8T 5-speed"

Here is a shot showing the backside of the DMF on the left and the stock flywheel on the right-



And here is the business end of the 1Z crankshaft-


Unless I am completely out to lunch, the DMF just is not going to work. Am I the only person to try this swap?

That is really weird. It was only a guess, I do not have any experience it at all but it definitely seems like thats the case. Sounds like you need to make a call to the vendor and get things straightened out.

Steve,
Do you have the ability to measure the distance between the crankshaft flange and outer surface?

Any other time, my trash guy would have left the old clutch; this week, he took it! Otherwise I'd get you a measurement to compare.

Tony

Crap to dmf in my opinion, I had the smf in my last car but the dmf in the new car, smf was a nicer clutch all round. Why not just throw in a sachs VR6 kit with your standard G60 flywheel that was on the car? If you keep the standard flywheel you wont get the rattle at idle. Also the sachs kit is good for 300lbs/ft too.

I'v pretty much given up on the DMF idea. I am beginning to think that the DMF, although advertised to fit the early cars with a 1Z, in reality it really won't work. I have searched through these forums and can find no documented use of the LuK DMF on a 1Z.

Tony- I'm not sure of the measurement you asked about- but you can see from the photos the backside of the two flywheels are very different- particularly where there is a deeper area of relief on the G60 flywheel that can accommodate the back of the block.

I have already had my oldflywheel re-surfaced for $40. I plan to get a TDI specific disk (Sachs 037141033B),that is meant for the diesel application. I am then hoping that South Bend Clutch will sell me a pressure plate only that has the clamping force of the Stage 2 Endurance kit. Seatman- I would like to avoid using the gasser disc if I can.

I also hope I can return the LuK unit!

Sounds like a mess. What did the vendor say you purchased it from?

Yeah I suppose so, really brought on by over thinking a simple repair. I guess I wouldn't be on this board if I didn't like cars and wasn't interested in improving my TDI- like most of us. I guess the worst part is not being able to come up with a good explanation as to why it won't fit, which is contradictory to the applications I've seen listed for the LuK DMF clutch. This is the "replacement" set that comes in the yellow box. Now I read that this is not the same clutch as the factory installed LuK units that are supposed to be the "good ones". You'd think the physical dimensions of the thing would be the same though.

Aaron from Bora Parts is stumped, so he is having me ship the clutch to a shop near him so they can install it in a car that can use it. I should get most of the cost back in the end.

In the meantime I do have a Sachs TDI OEM disc on the way (not a VR6 disc), and Aaron has turned me on to a shop he likes that can supply a heat treated Sachs VR6 cover that is good for over 325 lb/ft. I should have done it this way in the first place because the cost is considerably less.

Steve, what did SBC say regarding an alternate disc?

I did wind up speaking with John at SBC who handles the import stuff. He said they re-face the VR6 disc hubs for use in the TDI kits. The facings/friction coefficient they use are different depending on the Stage I, II or III applications. They do not use the specific TDI disc core in the kits they sell. I sourced a TDI disc (Sachs 037141033B) through MJM Autohaus for $89.95, and I am purchasing a cover from a source other than SBC.

A little further exploration around this issue...

The fellow who bought my former car, a 1996 Passat TDI, let someone else try to learn how to drive a stick in it and they totally and completely disintegrated the clutch that I had installed in it not too many years ago. At that time I had consulted this form and decided against installing the Luk kit as a result. Meanwhile, I now have a Luk 17-050 kit on hand that a obtained at a smoking deal on Scamazon, so I bought it for when I need one for my Golf or my daughter's bug. Hopefully that is a very long time from now.
It looks to me like the rear tin for the engine is where the interference takes place. This is now mentioned in the IDParts description cited. The body of the SM flywheel is a little bit recessed, and this allows it to clear the drawn out section of the shield that covers the rear main seal. It doesn't look necessary that the shield be drawn down so deep, so I could envision this fitting if one were to take the time to modify the shield.
I've attached a few photos.
First, one with the original SMF.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1prkgcwqOgDGQz7VFd1z6zhuhgybxXPF_/view?usp=sharing
Now here is the shield sitting on the Luk DMF.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10iAjs4ucfAlgNG5fbDMEaMK9B1fUQKC7/view?usp=sharing
Note that the shield sits slightly further from the flange.
Finally, here is one of the assembly set on the back of the engine of the Passat, without the engine shield in place. It is unobstructed and has plenty of clearance for the shield between the DMF and the block.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DB1QkjxHJoK_xmauJQkV3ANlzU1MjsCF/view?usp=sharing
In conclusion, I think that this could be made to work.
Best of luck all

The Bentley’s mention shimming the flywheels for clearance, iirc. Not typically needed, but could be here.

Hate to bring back this thread but just posted 10 years later and all the shops still say this fits A3/B4... but the LUK DMF DOES NOT fit the 1Z/AHU, at least without modifications. I tried to fit it up on my car and was similarly unsuccessful. It hits the metal "gasket" plate.

It theoretically could fit if you got rid of or modified the aforementioned metal cover plate. Hell, it might make next to no difference if you take the thing off altogether. But for my application, it felt like more work than I wanted to do. Someone petition these shops to stop saying it fits!

Windex put a DMF in the B4V I bought from him, works great even after all these years. I think I did seem him mention he had to modify the plate.

Yes. You need to trim the plate slightly. I posted a picture of what needs to be trimmed. I'll have a look when I get home. Much more refined than the SMF options and holds higher than stock torque as long as you're not going for crazy hp numbers.

Here you go:

My LUK repset seems to be holding DLC764 & 11mm pump stage 3 Malone power. I don't abuse it with clutch dumps or trying to snatch gears.

Can't afford to break it