Will delaying stage 2 result in a longer warranty?

I am confused by some of the warranty text.. I keep thinking this might mean that if we defer stage 2 until the DAY before 11 years or a single mile before 162k. it might result in 5 more years/60k more miles... stretching things to 212k or 16 years! ( Though since on new 2015s released for sale, the dealers all did stage one, maybe negating the stacking of miles/years)

In that case, if I if assume some risk in having a warranty gap, could I exceed the 11y or 162k, and THEN still get stage 2 done for free many many miles or years later? thereby reinstating warranty for another 5yr/60k?

Brochure says this: Warranty Period The warranty period for the “Extended Emissions Warranty” limited warranty extension shall be the greater of

- 11 years or 162,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s original in-service date;

OR

- 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of Phase 1 of the emissions modification. At the time of the subsequent Phase 2 modification, the extended warranty will be honored for 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of the completion of Phase 2.

Yes, you will maximize your warranty coverage by delaying part 2 until as long as possible, but I believe you have to get part 2 done before the end date of the program (file before Sept 2018, done before Dec 2018) if you want the benefits associated with it. Part 2 hasn't been officially announced yet (I believe it has not even been approved yet!), so we don't yet know exactly how this will go down.

Brian,

All the references to 2018 I saw were for folks affected by the buyback suit (restitution or buyback claims). With the new 2015 I bought, none of the documentation lists any date or requirement / deadline for stage 2 to be installed

If the DOT treats this as a recall, then I doubt they will allow VW to impose any deadline. I think we could go in any time, even 11 years from now... In reading the list of what they will do, if your car has <40k DSG or <80k 6M, they won't be putting the full compliment of longer service life components on the car.... I for one will make absolutely sure VW spends the full $1000+ for the longer life parts and 9hrs of labor during my stage2 install.

There's something in that document about continuing to make the fix available beyond the end date of the program, but anyone getting it done after the end date of the program (end of 2018) won't get any compensation for doing so.

We don't know much about the "part 2" of the 2015 installation because it hasn't been approved yet so no one has had it done.

I wouldn't take chances with this. VW has been playing hardball. To avoid running into interpretation issues and "too bad, so sad, you missed the deadline", at least for the moment, figure on filing before Sept 2018 and getting it done before the end of Dec 2018.

It's possible that when they officially announce approval and availability of part 2 of the 2015-model fix, the dates (including deadlines) will be made official. Right now, we have nothing to go on.

For select few amongst us, myself included, delaying is ez - as we have bought USED/CPO '15s with PhaseI applied. There's no money in it for us (outside of complimentary car wash coupon may be), so we dont have to come in before EOY '18.

Even w/o Phase2, we're still covered by 11/162. So yes, I can see somebody that drives say 40K/Y, come in for PhaseII in '20, with 160K miles on the car and bumping the wty another 5/60 ? Now, that would be shweeet !

This is indeed interesting for anyone that bought a new 2015 or CPO 2015. Like others said, there's no extra compensation coming our way for doing the fix by the end of 2018. I'm sure this stuff will be laid out in more detail at some point, but it would be sweet to drive the car for 10 years, then get stage 2 done, and have another 5 years of warranty. I get the feeling there is something written somewhere that will prevent that...

y2kbird said:

Brian,
All the references to 2018 I saw were for folks affected by the buyback suit (restitution or buyback claims). With the new 2015 I bought, none of the documentation lists any date or requirement / deadline for stage 2 to be installed
If the DOT treats this as a recall, then I doubt they will allow VW to impose any deadline. I think we could go in any time, even 11 years from now... In reading the list of what they will do, if your car has <40k DSG or <80k 6M, they won't be putting the full compliment of longer service life components on the car.... I for one will make absolutely sure VW spends the full $1000+ for the longer life parts and 9hrs of labor during my stage2 install.

Click to expand...

Please educate me about the longer life parts.
Thank you

2015vwgolfdiesel said:

Please educate me about the longer life parts.
Thank you

Click to expand...

https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen3_Final.pdf

No idea what makes it longer life, but the brochure spells out that if VW doesn't need to do the full day of hardware swaps when you bring your car for stage2 (due to under 40k or 70k miles), without that full slew of updated hardware you will need TWO diesel oxidation catalyst replacements to ensure you make it to 150k. (yet, a DSG brought in at 40,001 miles for Stage2 can then make it all the way to 150k...) To me that means updated=longer life hardware.

"...If your car exceeds 40,000 miles (for automatic transmissions) or 70,000 miles (for manual transmissions, we will install updated emissions control system hardware - specifically a new Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter - that is needed to maintain emissions performance for the full useful life (150,000 miles) of your vehicle....we will also install a second NOx sensor and corresponding software to improve the performance of the OBD system."

This part seems strange to me:
"If your vehicle has accumulated fewer than 40,000 miles (for automatic transmissions) or 70,000 miles (for manual transmissions) at the time of your Phase 2 update, your car will need to have the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst replaced a SECOND time, before it reaches 150,000 miles. We will notify you when it is time to bring your car in for the second catalyst replacement."

The part that says second replacement seems to directly conflict with the first paragraph, which says they atr replacing/updating parts at stage2 only if you have over 40k DSG or 70k 6M miles. And what's the logic of VW notifying YOU when it is time to bring it in for a 2nd replacement? Not every TDI has carnet, so that notification can't be any set mileage threshold. Maybe they are planning on forecasting based on average miles per month (miles at day of stage 2 mod divided by months in service?)

The wording is not great.

I believe what really happens this.

You file for getting phase 2 done.

If your car has more than the 40/70 threshold at the time then it gets the new sensors and software for OBD and a new DPF/DOC/SCR assembly (the whole thing is one unit) and that's it.

If it has less than the 40/70 threshold at the time of getting phase 2 done, they install the new sensors and software for OBDII but they do NOT install the new DPF/DOC/SCR, but rather defer that until a second visit at higher mileage such that the new unit will last until the end of the emissions warranty.

y2kbird said:

https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen3_Final.pdf

No idea what makes it longer life, but the brochure spells out that if VW doesn't need to due the full day of hardware swaps when you bring your car for stage2 (due to under 40k or 70k miles), without that full slew of updated hardware you will need TWO diesel oxidation catalyst replacements to ensure you make it to 150k. (yet, a DSG brought in at 40,001 miles for Stage2 can then make it all the way to 150k... To me that must be due to the updated longer life hardware.

"...we will install updated emissions control system hardware - specifically a new Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter - that is needed to maintain emissions performance for the full useful life (150,000 miles) of your vehicle....we will also install a second NOx sensor and corresponding software to improve the performance of the OBD system."

This part seems strange to me:
"If your vehicle has accumulated fewer than 40,000 miles (for automatic transmissions) or 70,000 miles (for manual transmissions) at the time of your Phase 2 update, your car will need to have the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst replaced a second time, before it reaches 150,000 miles. We will notify you when it is time to bring your car in for the second catalyst replacement."

Notice it says you will need to have the catalyst replaced a SECOND time, but only if at phase2 they didn't install updated parts due to low miles. BUT the quote above implies they doing a first replacement at stage2... And they will notify YOU when it is time to bring it in for a 2nd replacement? Not every TDI has carnet, so that notification can't be any set mileage threshold.

Click to expand...

y2kbird

First thank you kindly

All mind boggling to this ol' geezer guy.

But, I have the luxury of being of advanced years, and only drive a few miles per year.

100 % sure the car will out last me X 10 .......... so what the hay.

and

My fall back position is: [FONT=&quot]"Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer."[/FONT]

GoFaster said:

The wording is not great.

I believe what really happens this.

You file for getting phase 2 done.

If your car has more than the 40/70 threshold at the time then it gets the new sensors and software for OBD and a new DPF/DOC/SCR assembly (the whole thing is one unit) and that's it.

If it has less than the 40/70 threshold at the time of getting phase 2 done, they install the new sensors and software for OBDII but they do NOT install the new DPF/DOC/SCR, but rather defer that until a second visit at higher mileage such that the new unit will last until the end of the emissions warranty.

Click to expand...

My interpretation is that they replace everything at the time of the update in both circumstances, but if you were under the mileage threshold, the DOC is going to have to be replaced again before you get to 150k.

GoFaster said:

The wording is not great.

I believe what really happens this.

You file for getting phase 2 done.

If your car has more than the 40/70 threshold at the time then it gets the new sensors and software for OBD and a new DPF/DOC/SCR assembly (the whole thing is one unit) and that's it.

If it has less than the 40/70 threshold at the time of getting phase 2 done, they install the new sensors and software for OBDII but they do NOT install the new DPF/DOC/SCR, but rather defer that until a second visit at higher mileage such that the new unit will last until the end of the emissions warranty.

Click to expand...

If I understand what you are saying.

First we do the phase 1

Then the phase 2

Then there might be a 3rd visit for some cases?

_____________________

.....and, hoping we get the full 1/3 of the "fix" money on the 1st part of the phase 2

More like 2a (only the sensor and the reprogramming to make the OBD work properly) and 2b (replace the DOC/DPF/SCR). If your vehicle has more than a certain mileage threshold then 2a and 2b happen together, otherwise 2a comes first and 2b comes second.

But, the wording is not good, and it can be interpreted in other ways. The above is what I think they really meant and what will probably actually happen. Reality ... remains to be seen.

I think they are delaying the phase 2 announcement so that as many fit into the "all in one shot" category as possible.

Gofaster, I agree they likely meant what you wrote as 2a/2b Sadly, their same dealers that often screw up and put the wrong oil in our cars will need to be the ones following this. The PDF says available early 2018 but then goes on to say "You will receive a notice when Phase 2 of the emissions modification is available for your vehicle. You should expect to receive this notice before June 30, 2019." It also says the low mileage people at stage2 will need a second DOC replacement. Oddly, when VW tells you to come in for it. Since VW mentions 6/30/19 to even notify people to come in for stage2, I am 100% sure that we can defer this until at least 2020 or 2021 before wandering into the dealer for stage2 and a warranty restart If I am below the 70k mark I will defer it some more, or do some discretionary distance runs in order to make sure I get my $ worth of parts, labor, and warranty. I'll be lt VW onoy ends up doing the full stage 2b on half the vehicles currently registered. Wrexks happen, some of the new 2015s being sold won't have 40/70k by then, etc.

The longer they defer it the less the difference matters; most of them will have more than the mileage threshold anyhow (and you're right, there will be some attrition of the fleet) ... For sure, until such time as they actually announce availability of the phase 2 part of the fix, it doesn't matter which way the interpretation goes, and for anyone who expects to be over the mileage threshold, it also won't matter.

My phase 2 mail just showed up.
I bought the car new in 2017.
I think I will wait till 2028 to do the phase 2.

Miata said:

My phase 2 mail just showed up.
I bought the car new in 2017.
I think I will wait till 2028 to do the phase 2.

Click to expand...

The maximum warranty period for any vehicle is 11 years from 1st inservice date or 162,000 which ever comes first.

The 5 years 60,000 mile warranty will be cut short if the car exceeds the maximum warranty period in any form.

That is the beginning and end of VWs commitment where warranty is concerned.

Everyone thought we had a great deal given to us. But if you read carefully you find out, it is either, or not a combo of both. Which ever threshold you exceed first ends the warranty commitment.

If you have phase 2 done at 10 years 11.5 months. Your new extended warranty ends 15 days later.

If you have the phase 2 done at 160,000, your new extended warranty ends in 2,000 miles or the 11th anniversary date of the car being put into service which ever comes first.

The 5 yr 60,000 warranty is only in play, if you do not exceed 11yr 162,000 before the 5 yr 60,000 runs out.

dodgeit said:

The maximum warranty period for any vehicle is 11 years from 1st inservice date or 162,000 which ever comes first.

The 5 years 60,000 mile warranty will be cut short if the car exceeds the maximum warranty period in any form.

That is the beginning and end of VWs commitment where warranty is concerned.

Everyone thought we had a great deal given to us. But if you read carefully you find out, it is either, or not a combo of both. Which ever threshold you exceed first ends the warranty commitment.

If you have phase 2 done at 10 years 11.5 months. Your new extended warranty ends 15 days later.

If you have the phase 2 done at 160,000, your new extended warranty ends in 2,000 miles or the 11th anniversary date of the car being put into service which ever comes first.

The 5 yr 60,000 warranty is only in play, if you do not exceed 11yr 162,000 before the 5 yr 60,000 runs out.

Click to expand...

I beg to differ... it specifically states "THE GREATER OF THE TWO" so if you have 200,000 miles and it is 10 years old the warranty will begin AFTER the fix..starting at that mileage and continue for the specified time.. (4 years or so after the fix)..so.. your warranty is for 240,000 and 4 + years AFTER the fix..now for him waiting til 2028 well..that could be a problem..I would assume there is a deadline....a lot of people on here would be extremely upset if it was the way you interpret it to be!! including me!

forrest resto`s said:

I beg to differ... it specifically states "THE GREATER OF THE TWO" so if you have 200,000 miles and it is 10 years old the warranty will begin AFTER the fix..starting at that mileage and continue for the specified time.. (4 years or so after the fix)..so.. your warranty is for 240,000 and 4 + years AFTER the fix..now for him waiting til 2028 well..that could be a problem..I would assume there is a deadline....a lot of people on here would be extremely upset if it was the way you interpret it to be!! including me!

Click to expand...

Correct! I am waiting!

Well we will just have to see how it all plays out. Two more years on the 2009 cars to hit the 11 year ownership.

They wouldn't have put 11yr 162,000 in the verbiage, if it wasn't germain to the addendum 5yr 60,000. Let alone the first sentence covering warranty length.

Time is not our friend, is all I'm saying. With the money this cost VW, you can bet there is a maximum liability amount $$$$, or they would not have agreed to settle. No agreement would have happened if the liability to VW was open ended (mileage resets without a hard stop that reflected the agreed to useful life of the vehicle).


Thought of another way for the owner of the car there is a window of opportunity. 11yrs of vehicle inservice up to 162,000 miles which ever happens first. VWs maximum exposure is 5yrs or 60,000 miles which ever happens first. with a reset at phase 2.

Your opportunity to avoid repair cost is before your car exceeds one of the first two thresholds(11yrs 162,000 miles). VW only has to provide the service for free if one of the four thresholds hasn't been met (11yrs 162,000 inservice, 5yrs 60,000 from last fix).

My 2011 jetta has 50,000 miles on it...soo I had the fix a few months ago.. the warranty will cover me till middle of 2022 and I have 54,000 miles to go ( total of 104,000 miles)...about the same as the "in service date" warranty ( funny how this works out!?)..I'm pretty happy about this! especially since I had NO warranty at all!! Till this! Also by court order they are legally bound to honor this warranty..well if they ever go bankrupt??! L.O.L!