MFA/FIS/Sport Cluster POSSIBLE on 99.5!!!

For details you need ask this member unpimpZauto.

The upper schematic should be the one how to need to be re wired, and lower one is original Immo 3 cluster .

i've asked and am awaiting a response. he did tell me when i first contacted him that the lower set is from the immo3 cluster but i'm still not clear. it is my belief that after thinking about it that it would be best to leave the lights as they are and add an additional 3 lights wired as in the upper set of schematics. that's what i'm planning to do anyway, my cluster should be here tuesday. i've got a couple spare coils and have ordered a transponder 48 key but looks like it wont be here till more toward the end of the week. i'll let you know how i get along

Finally had a chance to tinker with the 99.5 today, got some really good news for you guys.This is HUGE!

Drumroll......

The glow plug light and CEL are, in fact, working correctly. The glow plug light works straight off on my immo2 cluster without issues. The check engine light is, in fact, working fine too. It is staying lit all the time because it is throwing codes for the glow plug light and check engine light. The ECU is looking for the proper resistance on the direct wires and the immo2 cluster is not providing it. It should be as simple as adding some resistors to either inside the cluster or to the exterior wiring somewhere. I will probably just do it to the cluster so I don't have to modify my car much.

As jetta97 pointed out, the can-bus wires are running to the cluster. They must be coming directly from the ECU and are providing the proper operation for the glow plug/CEL lights. They should provide the consumption data as well.

The bad news is that the air bag light is still not working at all. NO codes in the air bag controller, but the cluster it's self is throwing the light because it cannot communicate with the air bag controller. So that means that the can bus wires do not run to the air bag controller. I am wondering if it will be as simple as just running a set of can wires from the controller to the cluster so they can talk to each other?.

In the end, 99.5 cars appear to be fully can-bus capable, just VW installed a non-can cluster in them for some reason I do not understand.

turbocharged798 said:

In the end, 99.5 cars appear to be fully can-bus capable, just VW installed a non-can cluster in them for some reason I do not understand.

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It is not fully CAN Bus. On 99.5 ABS was CAN Bus relation with ECU.
I think wiring harness is made just one and that way we have CAN Bus in cluster.
Why waste money on few different wiring harnesses, if you can make one that will work on all cars.

Here is the good explanation of difference in clusters:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3250355&postcount=80

Made some more progress. Installed two ~800ohm resistors at pin 32 and 13 inside the cluster, put a diode in series with them, and hooked them up to pin 1. Put the cluster in, cleared the fault codes and bam no more codes! Sweet! Both lights work perfect over can-bus now.

All that is left is to fix the air bag light. I am thinking the best way around it is to simply tie in the can wires to the air bag controller. Bentley shows me that the can wires going to the cluster should be going to the air bag controller too, but I do not think they ever hooked it up as the cluster says it cannot communicate with the air bag controller.

So if I get time next week, I might try to run some can-bus wires to it and see what happens assuming they are simply not hooked up.

Looks like this will not be so bad after all.

jetta said:

It is not fully CAN Bus. On 99.5 ABS was CAN Bus relation with ECU.
I think wiring harness is made just one and that way we have CAN Bus in cluster.
Why waste money on few different wiring harnesses, if you can make one that will work on all cars.

Here is the good explanation of difference in clusters:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3250355&postcount=80

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Well, I think the can wires at the cluster just go directly to the ECU and nowhere else. That's why my glow plug and check engine lights work just fine but the air bag light does not(I think).

unpimpZauto said:

while the glow plug light LOOKS like it works, it isn't fully working. in immo2/3 clusters, the GP is controlled by the cluster, with the cluster doing the calculations for how long the light should be on. in 99.5, this is done by the ECU. while they will be on the same amount of time, using an immo2/3 cluster in a 99.5 will not allow the ECU to control the light for faults, and will, in fact, throw a code for "no GP light present."

similar things need to be done to the SRS and CEL lights as well.

if the cluster sees no coil at all, it simply throws a code in the 'Instruments' section, and turns the immo light on. if there is an improper key / no key (with a coil present) THEN it will flash and beep. simply removing the LED lets the cluster be used in a 99.5 with no noticeable issues.

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Well, that is wrong. Like I said in my above post, the glow plug and CEL work just fine over can-bus. The glow plug light will stay on for the proper amount of time. I tested it. It's just that the ECU is looking for the proper resistance at pins 32 and 13 and the cluster does not have them hooked up. By putting in some resistors, the fault codes go away and the lights work perfect.

The immo light does flash and the cluster beeps even if there is no coil hooked up on MFA clusters. The ONLY known way to fix it is to adapt a chip to the cluster.

Trust me is true.
It will count proper time but it will not work properly.If you look schematic you can see how is working.
My cluster is done this way and after 1000 miles it is working fine with out any problems

"if the cluster sees no coil at all, it simply throws a code in the 'Instruments' section, and turns the immo light on. if there is an improper key / no key (with a coil present) THEN it will flash and beep. simply removing the LED lets the cluster be used in a 99.5 with no noticeable issues."

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There is correction for this:

"my bad, let me rephrase that...

on a NONE-MFA Bora Sport Cluster, the immo LED can simply be pulled off the board.

the software on the MFA and FIS versions require the coil to be there "

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It will count proper time but it will not work properly.

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Not sure what you mean by that. If it is staying on for the correct amount of time, come on with the cluster power up, and does not throw any codes, I would think that it is working correctly.

If you think that is working good, that is OK with me.

my 1J0 920 926 F will be here tomorrow and i'll be overlaying the second set of LEDs. what i'd like to know now is, do you have an EEPROM dump that will be accurate with the TDI faces or did you never go down that road?

also, the diagram from unpimpZauto shows pin 16 triggering the airbag but it seems its actually pin 6. was this a typo?

Must be because pin 16 is for the trunk light per my Bentley.

just for fun i desoldered (from a bad cluster) all the components listed unpimpZauto for the immo3 led replacement. its a little messy but maybe it'll interest someone

waspie; said:

also, the diagram from unpimpZauto shows pin 16 triggering the airbag but it seems its actually pin 6. was this a typo?

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yea, just a typo. in my original notepad sketches, a /6 looked like a 16. took me a while to figure out why it wasn't working right. i'll fix the schematic when i get a chance.

turbocharged798; said:

Not sure what you mean by that. If it is staying on for the correct amount of time, come on with the cluster power up, and does not throw any codes, I would think that it is working correctly.

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while the algorithms for choosing how long the light stays on are the same, the issue comes in indicating an error code. there are certain situations (i forget which, atm) in which the ECU uses the GP light to indicate an error.

The ECM is sending lamp control messages over CAN. It definitely works correctly with an IMMO2 cluster. The GP lamp flashes in basic settings or when a non-emissions engine management code is set. The only thing the cluster is doing on its own is a lamp test. It doesn't compute preglow time, etc. at all.

IMMO3 should be the same, but since I haven't worked with it in a 99 yet, I can't yet draw any conclusions.

got my cluster today. ran home over lunch and got it. gonna try and wire it up now. also pictured is a coil with pigtail and the little rfid tag out of a cheap ebay key. the little board is my "neatly" organized circuits for the three lights.

jcrews said:

The ECM is sending lamp control messages over CAN. It definitely works correctly with an IMMO2 cluster. The GP lamp flashes in basic settings or when a non-emissions engine management code is set. The only thing the cluster is doing on its own is a lamp test. It doesn't compute preglow time, etc. at all.

IMMO3 should be the same, but since I haven't worked with it in a 99 yet, I can't yet draw any conclusions.

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I can confirm that the light work 100% correctly over can-bus. When I went into basic setting with VCDS, the glow plug flashed light like it should and I did not modify it at all. Check engine light was on due to my egr delete, I cleared the code and it went off.

waspie said:

got my cluster today. ran home over lunch and got it. gonna try and wire it up now. also pictured is a coil with pigtail and the little rfid tag out of a cheap ebay key. the little board is my "neatly" organized circuits for the three lights.

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That's exactly what I am going to do too. I plan on planting the immo coil right into the back of the coil with the RFID chip attached to it.

It just sucks that you have to buy the ENTIRE ignition switch for the immo coil.

junkyard! and i have a spare if you want it, no pigtail though

*seems* like all the lights are working. leaving work here soon so i can test
someone already enabled DTE (distance till empty)
can't get it to adapt the key so far, only issue.

oh, and i fixed the pictures above now. dont sure if i mentioned it, you have to add the REAR fog LED back in and take its 680 ohm resistor - at least on this cluster. piece of cake compared to everything else.

PM sent on the immo coil.

That's cool that your lights are working. My airbag harness did not work at all. Might be due to the fact that I used parts out of junk electronics. lol

You should be able to make a reading coil with sufficient turns of wrapping wire. How many depends on the power the transponder needs to operate. Wrapping wire is cheap and available at your neighborhood electronics or Radioshack retailer.

jcrews said:

You should be able to make a reading coil with sufficient turns of wrapping wire. How many depends on the power the transponder needs to operate. Wrapping wire is cheap and available at your neighborhood electronics or Radioshack retailer.

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Good point, I would imagine it would need to be the correct resistance for it to work. I supposed if somebody would be kind to measure the resistance of the immo coil for me, I should be able to make my own.

i think it was 22 ohms when i checked it last night

i have no tach and oil pressure warning light on. strange. tach comes via CAN right? oil pressure? maybe a wire came unplugged back there. also i think this has a 98 beetle ecu, hopefully CAN was built into it. sad face

hmm oil pressure is def just a switch, will have to check for loose wire.

more edits. abs has to talk to ECU so it has to have CAN. maybe missing wires in plenum

pin 11 is open on 2003 cluster so no direct input from tach to cluster. has to be via CAN.

Oil pressure is baseband, tacho is transmitted by CAN message.

On immo3 cluster you won't be able to adopt key with out immo 3 ECU.
Other wise It has to be done manually in eeprom.Don't ask me how to do it because it is very complicate to explain by writing.

well, heh. you had to have figured it out somehow. you got a link or something?

jetta said:

On immo3 cluster you won't be able to adopt key with out immo 3 ECU.
Other wise It has to be done manually in eeprom.Don't ask me how to do it because it is very complicate to explain by writing.

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That's exactly why I went with immo2.

no miles till empty for you, then

can the manual key adaptation be done with vag-tacho or does it require additional tools?

waspie said:

no miles till empty for you, then

can the manual key adaptation be done with vag-tacho or does it require additional tools?

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No lit needles either,but I don't care. I have all that stuff on the 04.

Vag-tacho should be able to adapt the keys, but I usually just use it to pull the pin code and then adapt with VCDS.