Camshaft position sensor

Car wont start and noticed no glow plug light.
Only code is camshaft sensor. Will that cause the glow plug light not to work?

think you best look at relay 219 and the fuse. do you get mil light?

Thanks Thundershorts I'll look at them tomorrow if i get off work in time.
If relay 219 is the main power relay for the Ecm wouldn't you get other codes other then the camshaft postion sensor?
And yes the CEL comes on.

if the fuse is out or part of the 219 relay is not functional, the glow plugs won't come on. what codes, if any I'm not sure will show. I think you will find a bad fuse or bad 219

Ok check the fuse for the glow plug, checked good. Turn key on and glow light came on. Maybe i missed it the first time. Way my week has been going i wouldn't be surprised.
Car still wont start. Bought a new relay anyways just to cover me later lol.
Haven't seem much on these camshaft position senor going bad but i guess it couldn't hurt.

Had a little time tonight to look at the car. Had to work thru my weekend.
Might need it to fix this thing lol
Wiring looks good. Connectors look tight.
Reset CEL to see if i get the same error and nothing came back. Maybe because it didn't start and cranking wont bring it back?
Cranked on it for a few seconds. After cranking stop i got a oil pressure msg.
I take it this is normal since the car didn't start? (BSM upgraded)

Is there a place on the VCDS you can check oil pressure and injectors? Maybe a test of the injectors?
Looked around on it and didn't see it.

Thanks

sounds liek timing belt moved......

Antsrcool said:

sounds liek timing belt moved......

Click to expand...

Well finally got a few hours to mess with the car. Check the timing and it seems to be dead nuts on.
Tho the one thing i did noticed while getting everything lined up was the tensioner pointer.
As you turned the crank the pointer would move from the middle of the window to just past the window
and then back to the middle as you came back around.
I take it this isn't normal? Is this due to a bad tensioiner or not getting the belt tension right on either side? Could this be my problem?

try replacing the belt if it isn't recent

thundershorts said:

try replacing the belt if it isn't recent

Click to expand...

When we bought the car last year (about 5k ago) the guy said he had just replaced the TB. Tho i wouldn't be suprised if thats all he replaced was the TB and not the roller or tensioner.

CCBB just told me that the pointer on the tensioner will move a little as tension changes so i can rule that out.
So timing is good. On to the next stage!

and it may not have been a Conti or oem belt. some of the aftermarket belt are thicker and not as flexible. what you are describing as to tensioner movement is not desirable. to be safe, you may want to consider replacing the belt,roller/tensioner as well as wp

Installed a new camshaft position sensor and like i thought it didn't work.

you still notice the tb tensioner movement at cranking speed?

thundershorts said:

you still notice the tb tensioner movement at cranking speed?

Click to expand...

Haven't really checked it while someone turned the key. Just by turning the crank manualy.

Going to check the fuel to the tandem pump tomorrow if it don't rain.
I'm wondering if there could be a airlock.

Indwelling said:

Tho the one thing i did noticed while getting everything lined up was the tensioner pointer.
As you turned the crank the pointer would move from the middle of the window to just past the window
and then back to the middle as you came back around.

Click to expand...

That is normal. As long as it returns to correct position when rotated by hand to #1 TDC in clockwise direction some movement of the tensioner is nothing to worry about. At hand-rotation speed the load on the belt as it turns the cam varies throughout the cam's rotation, causing the small changes in where the belt tension is distributed. The tensioner moves to take up or release the slack.

I would check the crank position sensor. Down low on the driver's side of the block near the oil filter housing. CKP issues seem to be the most common cause of a sudden no-start on a PD, at least in my experience... check the sensor's wiring harness for damage, check the connector, if nothing obvious you can remove the sensor and see if it shows any sign of trouble externally. At least one member here once had his sensor get chewed somehow, causing a no-start. I forget the circumstances but doing a visual is a place to start.

Did you write down the exact error code you got for the cam position sensor? Was it a sensor circuit failure type code, or was it an "implausible signal" or other signal-related code? The cam and crank position sensors are the only two engine position references the computer has, so if one is saying the wrong thing, it sometimes does not know which one to "trust" and calls the fault on the one that is not having the problem.

No reason to be concerned about the oil pressure message... it is coming up because the motor is not starting and jacking the pressure up in the time that the computer is expecting it to. As long as there is oil in the crankcase, nothing to worry about, let it beep at you.

While cranking, watch the tach and look at engine speed value in VCDS. Do you see a steady number on both, that is a plausible number for engine cranking RPM? Should be at least 200-250 RPM. If you see a lot of fluctuation or a much lower number than that, CKP sensor trouble is a prime suspect. If you are seeing those symptoms and the sensor visually checks out OK, stick a new one in.

Checking lift pump operation is a good idea but generally the motor will still start even with a dead tank pump...

Thanks V8volvo I check the rpm this morning and it showed 200RPM but that was not with the computer. I'll recheck it to see.

The code i got was as follows:
1 Fault found:
19463 - Camshaft position sensor (G40) No signal
P3007-000- - - Intermittent
Freeze frame:
RPM: 714/min
Torque: 94.0 NM
Speed: 0.0Km/H
Load: 0.0%
Voltage: 11.32V
Bin. Bits 00001011
Idle stabilization: 0.0 KW
(no unit) 16.0

So what your saying is even tho it flagged the camshaft sensor it might actually be the crank sensor that is bad and the ecu to dumb to figure it out?

It getting fuel thru the return line, haven't check to the injectors tho.
Think i'll look at what you suggested.

Check engine speed with VCDS and it was at 210/min and steady.
On to the crank sensor.

Well i check the crank sensor, it looks ok.
Guess i could get a new crank sensor but knowing my luck it wont work.

If you are seeing a steady 210 RPM when cranking with no significant or irregular fluctuation, the crank sensor is probably OK.

Do you smell any fuel when cranking? Does it crank any differently than normal? Have you run output tests with VCDS and checked that the intake flap motor is working correctly? If that flap snapped closed last time you turned the car off and failed to re-open, that will prevent it from starting... though you would probably hear it crank with soft compression if that were the case.

What kind of shape is the large round harness connector at the back of the cylinder head in?

Don't really smell any fuel while cranking.
As far as cranking differently not 100% sure since my wife drives it.
Almost want to say there is.

Will the flap be labeled as intake flap motor?

Harness seems to be in good condition.

I pulled the short intake hose on the intake flap. With the key off the valve is open? Shouldn't this be closed? I removed the EGR valve to have a look at it. It was pretty caked up. So i cleaned it up best i could. Dose the EGR valve move with the position of the key or cranking? Cause it didn't move.
From what i can tell the intake valve, EGR valve and the injector is made up of the same harness going to the ECM? Was thinking maybe a bad relay somewhere? Isn't the intake flap spring loaded closed?
What are the olds i have a bad ECM?

Thoughts?

Was doing some reading on the tandem pump and from what i understand if the vacuum side fails that would keep the car from starting. From what i also understand this is a command problem on this car?

Update: turned key on then off and intake flap closed for a few sec then reopened. Ops ck good.

Leaning toward the tandem pump. Ever since i cleared the camshaft sensor code. I can't get no code or pending codes events. Tandem pump is 1 of the things i can think of that will fail and not give a code.

What is a normal voltage drop when cranking the engine?

The battery voltage dropped below 10v while cranking.
Didn't think to much of this cause i was getting ok engine speed at cranking and the battery isn't a year old yet. (tho that don't mean anything)

Going to charge it up a little and hook another battery to it and retry.

Learning alot about this engine today with all the great info out there.

Intake flap should be open when the engine is not running, regardless of key off or on. When you cycle the key off, the flap should shut and then open again.

EGR should not necessarily move with key cycles but you could easily check both the flap and the valve with VCDS output tests. However, neither should affect starting as long as the flap is open.

Below 10v cranking is not great and 210 RPM cranking is relatively slow as well. ~250 or higher would be a better number.

I would be surprised to see a mechanical tandem pump problem turn up overnight and cause a sudden no-start with no prior running concerns. I suppose a stuck pressure relief valve is a possibility. See if you can get it cranking faster first. My money is still on an electrical or sensor issue.

I am still wondering about the cam position sensor code. Have you checked the hall effect tabs on the back of the cam pulley for damage or any kind of interference? Did the crank chopper wheel look OK when you pulled the CKP sensor out? The code initially set at an odd engine speed -- 714 RPM is below idle speed so, with an automatic trans, the engine should never go there except when first starting up... and your freeze frame data show only 11.32v at the time the fault occurred, also an odd number to see... maybe pointing to it having occurred during or immediately after startup... or maybe during cranking, with the sensors showing an incorrect RPM... Maybe. My suspicion would be that, unless the fault occurred at a very specific moment during start-up, one of the numbers in that freeze-frame list (i.e. RPM) may be wrong and that may be leading to your no-start. It is possible that whatever set the fault that time is still causing a problem, but the ECU is not able to recognize the issue in terms of setting a DTC at very low engine speeds (aka cranking) so you are not getting the code again.

ITS A LIVE!!

I was thinking what you were thinking V8volvo after my post. I said to my self "self i don't think that tandem pump would go out over night with out it running poorly"

Thats what put me on the hunt of the battery again. I learned later on that the wife had left the dome light on over night and turned it off the next day when it didn't fire over.......
Tho i did put the car on charge for 4 hours the next day when i was checking the timing. Must not have charge good enough or batter is on its way out. Which be ok with me cause its still under warranty.

After putting it on charge for 2 hours and then hooking up my truck battery to it. The crank speed went to 250 and voltage drop to 10.8. After a few try's it still didn't start. I had the intake pipe off from looking at the intake flap. So i stuck it back on to get better air flow.
It tried to start but didn't. After the 3-4th try it started.

So either when my wife went to start the car that morning it didn't have enough juice and some reason it thru it a camshaft code. If the battery was low that would explain why the v to the sensor was low?
or
Camshaft sensor is going.

Thanks all for your help!

your battery voltage is too low. the bosch ecu cuts many functions below 10.5V. I suspect your battery is old and tired. you can continue chasing codes or replace the battery and perhaps have a running car.

my post must have hit just as you posted. to others reading these posts. let it be a word to the prudent, replace marginal batteries and avoid needless frustration and work.

Yes, these cars like healthy batteries....

Guess i spoke to soon. LOL

Went to restart the car and it wont start. Now its throwing me "no engine speed single and rpm don't move.

Crank voltage is good.
Maybe V8volvo is right the Crank sensor is bad.

Far as the battery being old and tired its less then a year old. 5/11

Something told me to replace that thing while i had it out..

UPdate: I messed with the wire to the crank sensor and the car started.
The RPM at idle jumps around a little.

you still may have a marginal or bad battery. I would recommend testing it somewhere other than where you bought it. It may have been discharged more than the once you mentioned. standard auto batteries are not designed to be deep discharged and it drastically shortens their useful life. when you mentioned that the cranking voltage dropped below 10v and after charging it for 4 hours, cranking voltage was only marginal at mid 10 range, I'm guessing that its been discharged before and marginal at best.

Hi to All.
Sorry for hijacking.
Got a 05 jetta with BEW Engine 2 months ago, Air bag light on.(not that matters) Got code 19463 no CEL, what does the code mean ? Engine starts fine in cold mornings.

Thank you for any imput.