tditom
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2001
- Location
- Jackson, MI
- TDI
- formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
Dan-
Kudos for following thru on sharing your experience. Good luck getting it back on the road & plase keep us posted.
Official list of HPFP Failures
- Thread starter dzcad90
- Start date
Kudos for following thru on sharing your experience. Good luck getting it back on the road & plase keep us posted.
ruking
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2003
- Location
- San Jose area, CA
- TDI
- 2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
In the earlier days and miles on the (my) 09 Jetta TDI, ( while) I thought I had a good chance of having the issue bypass my anecdotal 09 Jetta TDI. The issue did hit and @ app 79,000 miles. From all that I have read so far, it would seem that the design/s (HPFP) they actually went with, that they were "comfortable" with the "PROJECTED" failure RATE and/or percentage. What that was/is/ adds up to be seems to be kept very close to the VW vest. One question might be: does the ACTUAL failure rate come under or OVER the projected, and do the subsequent $$$$ costs come under/over projections. Again, that is kept close to the VW vest. The secondary issue might be: are the REMANNED and subsequent NEW HPFP's designs BETTER/WORSE. One thing seems to be clear. To remain viable, they have to get this as close to ZERO defects as possible and as close to the LIFE of the product, given the USA market ULSD standards are not going to change.
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Plus 3 Golfer
Veteran Member
Yes, I used DK for the 1st 20k+ miles and then switched to B2. But, I still believe that the dealer may have contributed to my failure at the 20k "free" FF change by perhaps not running the pumps to purge air from the system. It was several 1000 miles after the FF change that I noticed significant metal particles on the FF.
I took it back in and the dealer changed the FF again and said they'd check at the 30k "free" oil change. At the 30 k change, dealer said it was okay. I looked when I got home and there was still metal debris on the FF. When I change the FF at 40 k (and using VCDS to run the pumps), there was still debris on the old FF but to a lesser extent. It failed at 44k and before the flatbed arrived I checked the FF again and there was metal debris but nothing in the metering valve. VW would not authorize replacement of the entire fuel system.
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Whiteboy84
Well-known member
I spoke to the technician who replaced the turbo charger in my 09 jetta and he said he's only seen one HPFP that's failed. But I'm thinking most folks probably go to the dealer to try to get it fixed for free. Either way, he told me that if you change your fuel filter and don't have the computer software that you can't prime it properly and that this can cause the hpfp to fail.
Year: 2011
Build Date: 11/2010
Make/Model: Audi A3 TDI Sportback
Tranny: DSG/S-tronic
Mileage: 77,500
Diesel Fuel Source: Mostly Shell and Chevron, off brand from time to time
Additives: (Yes/No) No
Problem: Car lost power on freeway, flashing glow plug light. Wouldn't do above 40 mph but drove okay for the 5 minutes it took to get home. Wouldn't start after that, towed to dealer. Previous fuel filters were clean, I'm the original owner and no one else ever fueled it up. Dealer said they tested the fuel and verified it was diesel only. Until this, the only issue I've had was an O2 sensor the first day I brought it home. Replaced under warranty.
Dealer: Stevens Creek Audi San Jose CA
Status: Still working on the car, everything including a loaner is being covered by Audi USA. No fight at all on my part. They are replacing entire fuel system, should be done in 5 days total.
Build Date: 11/2010
Make/Model: Audi A3 TDI Sportback
Tranny: DSG/S-tronic
Mileage: 77,500
Diesel Fuel Source: Mostly Shell and Chevron, off brand from time to time
Additives: (Yes/No) No
Problem: Car lost power on freeway, flashing glow plug light. Wouldn't do above 40 mph but drove okay for the 5 minutes it took to get home. Wouldn't start after that, towed to dealer. Previous fuel filters were clean, I'm the original owner and no one else ever fueled it up. Dealer said they tested the fuel and verified it was diesel only. Until this, the only issue I've had was an O2 sensor the first day I brought it home. Replaced under warranty.
Dealer: Stevens Creek Audi San Jose CA
Status: Still working on the car, everything including a loaner is being covered by Audi USA. No fight at all on my part. They are replacing entire fuel system, should be done in 5 days total.
GTIDan
Veteran Member
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, it gave me pause for sure. I really like the car and otherwise it's been good. I'm a forgiving person and the car did send me a vibe asking me to hang in there, lol
GTIDan
Veteran Member
I never used any additives but considering it now. Not sure how much to use or what to buy. Any help?
chudzikb
Veteran Member
I gave you grief as well, I certainly respect you coming back to post your experience. Certainly shows a lot of integrity as a person to do that after your position. I hope it all works out for you...
What's funny is I have had two VW techs tell me that there is no need to use Vagcom after a fuel filter change. I wish there was some DEFINITIVE information on this somewhere so this would stop getting argued.
tdiatlast
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- Fort Worth, Texas
- TDI
- 2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
^^^this. I've asked several dealerships, in no. VA and around Bradenton, FL, and they all smile weakly when I ask if they "prime" the CR fuel system after a FF change. I've observed them pull a filter, push/splash in a new one, secure the lid, and fire it up. They don't bother to drain/clean the FF canister.
I'm with you, YukonLT. No definitive info. Bentley (not always accurate, of course), in my 09 manual, says nothing about priming during a FF replacement. Later in the manual, they state very clearly that ANY TIME the fuel system is opened up, it needs to be primed.
I'm with you, YukonLT. No definitive info. Bentley (not always accurate, of course), in my 09 manual, says nothing about priming during a FF replacement. Later in the manual, they state very clearly that ANY TIME the fuel system is opened up, it needs to be primed.
RNDDUDE
Veteran Member
Just because someone is a certified VW tech, does not mean they are really good. It's like the old saying "What do you call a guy who graduates Medical School at the bottom of his class? Doctor."
Zyoid
Member
hmm...wonder if this caused mine. HPFP failed the same day I got my 20k (FF).
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meerschm
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2009
- Location
- Fairfax county VA
- TDI
- 2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
alldataDIY.com for the 09 has clear procedure for fuel filter change. ( I strongly suspect this info comes from mfg tech data)
the procedure is very clear.
after listing tools, a caution is provided.
Observe safety precautions when working on fuel supply. Refer to --> [ Fuel Supply System, Safety Precautions ] See: Powertrain Management\Fuel Delivery and Air Induction\Service Precautions\Vehicle Damage Warnings\Fuel Supply System, Safety Precautions.
which links to the below (as well as safety cautions and one to keep things clean)
If fuel system components between the fuel tank and high pressure fuel pump were removed or replaced, the fuel system must be filled in order to bleed it. Refer to --> [ Fuel System, Filling ] See: Service and Repair\Procedures\Fuel System, Filling. (Avoid running the high pressure fuel pump dry.)
the procedure is very clear.
after listing tools, a caution is provided.
Observe safety precautions when working on fuel supply. Refer to --> [ Fuel Supply System, Safety Precautions ] See: Powertrain Management\Fuel Delivery and Air Induction\Service Precautions\Vehicle Damage Warnings\Fuel Supply System, Safety Precautions.
which links to the below (as well as safety cautions and one to keep things clean)
If fuel system components between the fuel tank and high pressure fuel pump were removed or replaced, the fuel system must be filled in order to bleed it. Refer to --> [ Fuel System, Filling ] See: Service and Repair\Procedures\Fuel System, Filling. (Avoid running the high pressure fuel pump dry.)
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meerschm
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2009
- Location
- Fairfax county VA
- TDI
- 2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
this seems like a data point.
Whiteboy84
Well-known member
What do you mean by data point? Not criticizing, seriously trying to figure out what you mean.
psrumors
Veteran Member
Curious if there is any correlation of HPFP failures and running the tank low trying to achieve 700, 800 or even 900 miles on a tank of fuel. If the LPFP sucks air because of an ultra low tank it could be bad for the HPFP.
I have to say I am guilty. I ran the tank rather low to get to 700 miles, generally I don't let any of my vehicles get below a 1/4 tank.
I have to say I am guilty. I ran the tank rather low to get to 700 miles, generally I don't let any of my vehicles get below a 1/4 tank.
bobt2382
Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
I have not read anything definitive. I don't want to test it though. I try and refill my tank when I've used 10 gallons. I use Optilube additives and small dosages of biodiesel. Those attempts to lubricate the pumps may help. Time will tell.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Not sure that running the tank too low is necessarily a bad thing for the hpfp. I typically don't fill until after my light comes on and then it's usually a measured response of can I get all the running around I need to do before or after I fill the tank. there have been enough times that I drove while the display read 0 miles to empty and so far no issues.
filmismymedium
New member
Year: 2012
Build Date: Will check when I get the car back.
Make/Model: VW Golf TDI
Tranny: 6M
Mileage: 32,378
Diesel Fuel Source: Chevron always; Last fill up was first at a Shell.
Additives: No
Problem: HPFP failed. Loss of power and loud clicking noise. Engine check light and coil light flashing, followed by stalling and failing to restart. Turns over but does not start.
Dealer: Purchased from McKenna VW in Cerritos, CA. Repair at New Century in Glendale, CA.
Status: Dealer made all repairs within 3 business days. Cost was covered under warranty. Replaced HPFP, tank pump, hp fuel lines, fuel rail with both sensors, all injectors, fuel return lines, fuel filter, aux fuel pump. Flush and clean tank and fuel lines.
Build Date: Will check when I get the car back.
Make/Model: VW Golf TDI
Tranny: 6M
Mileage: 32,378
Diesel Fuel Source: Chevron always; Last fill up was first at a Shell.
Additives: No
Problem: HPFP failed. Loss of power and loud clicking noise. Engine check light and coil light flashing, followed by stalling and failing to restart. Turns over but does not start.
Dealer: Purchased from McKenna VW in Cerritos, CA. Repair at New Century in Glendale, CA.
Status: Dealer made all repairs within 3 business days. Cost was covered under warranty. Replaced HPFP, tank pump, hp fuel lines, fuel rail with both sensors, all injectors, fuel return lines, fuel filter, aux fuel pump. Flush and clean tank and fuel lines.
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tdiatlast
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- Fort Worth, Texas
- TDI
- 2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
The question of tank fuel level risk is more related to the in-tank pump, which sits in the fuel, and is cooled by the fuel. No definitive proof that it can cause a failure, but the lower the volume of fuel, the higher the fuel temp, since it's recycling fuel from the engine.
Plus 3 Golfer
Veteran Member
I posted the snippet shown below in Sept 2011 from my CD service manual. To me it is very clear that the fuel system should be primed with VCDS when changing the FF.
waltzconmigo
Veteran Member
plus3---that seems definitive. thanks for posting, this has been argued, as you are aware, for the past 5 years.
tdiatlast
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Location
- Fort Worth, Texas
- TDI
- 2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
^^^cycling the key on early CR TDIs didn't run the in-tank pump. Evidently, on the newer CDs, there have been reports that cycling the key does prime, but I'm not sure anyone has verified this.
GTIDan
Veteran Member
Replacement pump #FF 021 A02 or 03L-130-851-AX The only information I have is that the X means it's a rebuilt pump. First I was sad but than I thought a rebuilt pump would have updated parts (the rollers, etc.) Just guessing on my part here.
If you know something from the numbers I posted please post. Thanks.
For the record I'm now adding Power Service Diesel Kleen. Trying to do what I can to keep it running.
Here is what I have with regards to the FF change. No mention of priming the fuel pump.
In other maintenance actions on the fuel system, the manual specifically has you prime the system.
I do not disagree in the least with regards to priming the fuel system anytime it is open for maintenance. I have asked three dealer service departments if they prime the system after a FF change, their answer is no. Some add Diesel Kleen to the housing prior to refilling, some just drop the new filter in.
Could this be a cause that leads to a HPFP failure? Hard to say without any real data, I am sure the owners who have had a pump failure after their first 20k filter change believe so but to correlate it all would be difficult. You have to wonder how many higher mileage CR TDI motors are running around that have just had their FF changed every 20k by a dealer service department and no priming?
In other maintenance actions on the fuel system, the manual specifically has you prime the system.
I do not disagree in the least with regards to priming the fuel system anytime it is open for maintenance. I have asked three dealer service departments if they prime the system after a FF change, their answer is no. Some add Diesel Kleen to the housing prior to refilling, some just drop the new filter in.
Could this be a cause that leads to a HPFP failure? Hard to say without any real data, I am sure the owners who have had a pump failure after their first 20k filter change believe so but to correlate it all would be difficult. You have to wonder how many higher mileage CR TDI motors are running around that have just had their FF changed every 20k by a dealer service department and no priming?
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i don't know if it is good or bad but i never primed mine.
i have 139K miles on my 09, this is what i usually do:
1) Start using Powerservice a couple of tanks before I plan to change the filter
2) Remove old filter
3) Insert new filter
4) Fill the canister with Powerservice
5) Close the filter
6) Cycle key 5 times (without starting the car. I read different opinion if it does or does not circulate fuel, so I just do it anyway)
7) Start the car, let it idle for few minutes, than take it to a quick spin.
8) Open the hood and check for leaks.
Not sure if it is the proper procedure, but it worked fine for me
i have 139K miles on my 09, this is what i usually do:
1) Start using Powerservice a couple of tanks before I plan to change the filter
2) Remove old filter
3) Insert new filter
4) Fill the canister with Powerservice
5) Close the filter
6) Cycle key 5 times (without starting the car. I read different opinion if it does or does not circulate fuel, so I just do it anyway)
7) Start the car, let it idle for few minutes, than take it to a quick spin.
8) Open the hood and check for leaks.
Not sure if it is the proper procedure, but it worked fine for me
psrumors
Veteran Member
If cycling the key does circulate fuel then you did prime the system.