Panzer problems-Advice needed

I need a bit of advice, hopefully from someone who has encountered this:

I started the Install of my Panzer Skid Plate yesterday-Everything went fine, all sub-frame rivnuts went in fine, Torqued to 35 ft-lbs; Driver's side post installed fine-Then my problems started

For the passenger side post-As recommended in the instructions, I used the post as my Rivnut holder;The first Rivnut (Front)took some muscling, but eventually did go in and was torqued to 35 ft-lbs and then backed off slightly

The rear Rivnut however, would not cooperate and would only thread so far before it started spinning inside the Frame rail-after wearing myself out for an hour putting pressure on it to get it to bite, I took the post off and used the Rivnut tool-eventually it bit and I was able to torque it to 35 ft-lbs

So-I go to loosen the bolt to remove the Rivnut tool and-It again starts spinning in the Frame rail-The car can't be driven like this as the Rivnut tool is against the serpentine belt-I fought with it for an hour or better and finally was able to get the bolt out.

So-I now sit with two Rivnuts in the frame rail-one tight and the other loose-What do I do now?

my options as I see them:

1) Put the post on and hope that the rear bolt will bite and allow me to tighten it-hoping that if it doesn't, the front bolt gives sufficient structural support

2) Drill/Break out the "bad" Rivnut and try with the spare included in the kit; If I do that-what's the trick for getting it to "bite" right away? If it behaves again as the previous one-where do I go from there?

3) something I haven't considered?


Insights are greatly appreciated

Jay

I had the same problem last weekend, only on the driver's side -- the rivnut just kept spinning. Like you, I replaced the post with the rivnut tool, and just kept turning the bolt -- I had just about given up, when the rivnut tightened down and I was able to snug it to 35 foot-pounds. Maybe (seriously) it was the heat from the friction I caused with all that spinning that made it finally grab.

You are facing a tougher situation, because the intercooler partly blocks access on the passenger side. I was able to tighten the rivnuts on that side to 35 ft-lbs, but when I tried to tighten the bolt itself with the Panzer plate in place, I couldn't for the life of me get the socket to grab enough while the 12-inch extension was angled past both the intercooler and the plate itself. So one of the bolts is not fully tightened yet.

You might query Dieselgeek himself via e-mail (unless he responds to this thread) -- he's been very helpful and responsive, to me and to others on our club forums. To avoid removing the intercooler, he said I might be able to use a wobble extension, so I plan to try that, as soon as my aching shoulders and my wife let me get back under the car.

I'd sure like to know what to do about the spinning rivnut, in case it happens the next time -- I have a second Panzer plate to put on our other Jetta TDI. I'd appreciate a pm if you figure it out.

I've only put on 3 of these, but I would opt for option #1. The plate is very stable with the setup, and my bet is that you will never notice any rattle. I usually leave the driver's side post mounting bolts loose until all the plate is mounted, then tighten them up last.

If it were me? I'd goop up the bolt that goes into the "loose" rivnut. I'd use Plumber's Goop, so the bolt will stick wherever it starts spinning the rivnut. But that's just me.

silverstick said:

as soon as my aching shoulders and my wife let me get back under the car.

I'd sure like to know what to do about the spinning rivnut, in case it happens the next time -- I have a second Panzer plate to put on our other Jetta TDI. I'd appreciate a pm if you figure it out.

Click to expand...

Yeah-My arms feel like I did several hundred Push-ups, It was hard to brush my teeth this morning.

If Dieselgeek doesn't chime in, I'll touch base with him and let you know the solution.

Jay

Option 3. Find a friendly exhaust shop and have them throw a couple of tack welds on the rivnut/frame. That sucka will never spin again.

If you want to drill it out, go for it. The trick to the rivnuts is to a) make absolutely you get all the body preservative wax you can from the area, and b) ensure that the rivnut remains flush against the frame while you are tightening it. If it drops or tilts, you will have problems with it.

Make sure that the bolts are well greased before using them to tighten the rivnut. BTW, wobble extensions ARE your friend when installing the front mounts.

paramedick said:

Option 3. Find a friendly exhaust shop and have them throw a couple of tack welds on the rivnut/frame. That sucka will never spin again.

Click to expand...

I considered putting a small amount of JB Weld on there to hold it enough to let the Bolt get a good grip.

I'm leaning toward that and option # 1-Cross my fingers and hope for the best.

First and foremost, it is worth giving Jim Royston a call for his advice. 210.852.4819

I've installed many of these plates. I have had the problem you are describing. The rivnut starts to bite, you think it's in, but then it just spins in the hole both ways. In my case, this problem was the result of me applying insufficient lube to the bolt tightening the rivnut.

My solution in this case was to lock the rivnut, and tighten it more.

I used a hammer to force the blade of a flat screwdriver between the flange of the rivnut and the frame. I then used an impact wrench on the bolt until the rivnut began to bite again. Once it started to bite, I removed the screwdriver, and finished tightening with a wrench.

paramedick said:

BTW, wobble extensions ARE your friend when installing the front mounts.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Using a wobble, I was able to get that last bolt -- the one next to the intercooler -- torqued down correctly today.

Anyone gotten Dieselgeek's take on the spinning rivnuts?

I had one that spun like that and wouldn't bite... I went for broke and hit it with an impact (very very very carefully) until it bit and started to tighten and then I torqued it to spec by hand. I can't stress enough to be careful with the impact.... I then used it on the rest of the ones I had left to get them started

I used lots of grease and got angry with it on Friday afternoon and it finally bit-I can't get the socket to grip sufficiently to get the proper Torque, but am borrowing a wobble-joint from a friend today and should be able to get it to spec.

I'm very happy with the plate and surprised I didn't do this sooner. IMO it would make sense for Dieselgeek to put some more detail into that passenger side installation description-Warn people that it's more difficult and that a wobble-joint is their friend.

Thanks for all of the input

Jay

For those visual folks.......You need quicktime to watch.

http://www.cincitdi.com/richc/panzerplate.html

I also had spinning rivnuts a couple of weeks ago and one thing I found helpful from some other threads was using an internal toothed washer between the rivnut and the post.

I also made sure to clean all the surfaces well the second time around (I used brake cleaner) and tried not to get grease on the bottom of the rivnut where it contacts the post.

Another trick I figured out was squirting grease into the rivnut rather than greasing the threads on the bolts. That way when I threaded the bolts on, the threads would get some grease but I would not get excess grease all over the bottom surface of the rivnut. (I may have been too generous with the grease the first time around.)

For a rivnut partially in that spins both ways with the bolt stuck to it, I found jamming a flathead screwdriver between the rivnut flange and wedging it against some surface helped to hold the rivnut still so the bolt could be turned.

Oilman,

I am sorry you had trouble with your Panzer install. I will change some wording to reflect that the rivnut tool should be used on all rivnuts during the install. If you use the rivtool on all holes and pregrease all seven bolts prior to installing the rivnuts you will have no problems. No other tricks are necessary. I will also mention the wobble extension on the passenger side.

As an aside, I encourage all customers that they should never hesitate to call if they run into a snag. If it is a weekend I will not be able to answer the phone but I will review VM regularly and give call backs if you are hung up.

I am always available during biz hours during the week. 210 852-4819

corrado tdi said:

Oilman,

I am sorry you had trouble with your Panzer install. I will change some wording to reflect that the rivnut tool should be used on all rivnuts during the install. If you use the rivtool on all holes and pregrease all seven bolts prior to installing the rivnuts you will have no problems. No other tricks are necessary. I will also mention the wobble extension on the passenger side.

As an aside, I encourage all customers that they should never hesitate to call if they run into a snag. If it is a weekend I will not answer be able to answer the phone but I will review VM regularly and give call backs if you are hung up.

I am always available during biz hours during the week. 210 852-4819

Click to expand...

No worries-It all worked out in the end and I'm happy with the product.

Thanks for the response

Cheers,

Jay

A very old thread, and I understand that DieselGeek has long since upgraded the type of rivnuts used in the Panzer Plate kit. I recently bought a pre-2013 MK4 full metal jacket kit that had never been installed. It contained the older grey/silver rivnuts and like a couple people way back early in this thread, ended up with a spinner rivnut on the passenger side of a Jetta, the one closest to the intercooler. I know it's been some time since this thread originated, wondering if anyone who has experienced this issue could share their resolution. Were you able to drill out the bad rivnut without having to remove the intercooler in order to get a straight line for a drill bit?

Damn, this thread is almost ten years old. Ahh, good times 2008 was.

You should buy a 12" long 1/2" drill bit to drill out the incorrectly set rivnuts. This will give you the reach you need to get around the intercooler bracket. I thought of this about an hour ago. Once you drill the head off the body will just push into the frame rail.

We haven't sold the OE VW rivnuts for quite a while now. We don't recommend using the old OE rivnuts since they are harder to install correctly than our new ones. Our new custom made rivnuts are much harder with bigger heads than the OE VW rivnuts we used to sell.

Let's please let this old thread die.