AFN upgrade to 170ish BHP +-

Hopefully it will only be a couple of trips at the most before I get it mapped. The easiest route to the guy doing it is all motorway all bar the first two miles this end and the seven or eight the other end... and 80m of M20/26/25!

Should be fun coming home though!

FlyingFin said:

Thanks, took my mate up on his 130 turbo, nozzles ordered and awaiting arrival.
Now for FSQT!...
Once the turbo and nozzles are fitted, would it be drivable or would I need a tx to get it to the Mapping Guy?
If it is drivable, would it have to be nursed or would I be able to be a little more progressive? This would dictate which route I had to take to get to the Mapper.
Cheers, FF.

Click to expand...

The pd 130 turbo comes on boost a little bit earlier than the bv43 but will also put more strain on the clutch and flywheel especially if you floor it low down. The bv43 will need a very good map to release it's potential and whilst remapped with race 520 nozzles it will rip your flywheel apart.

My old 90 Bhp engine was re-worked (as Ben mentioned) and whilst it has phenomenal power even without a remap- it should have been even better with a remap. That little a4 could give people wiplash ! I have a few clips filmed with my phone camera after i have rebuilt the engine so could not redline-it as i wished !

Yes you'll need to limit fuel low down with r520's but that's what I'm doing at the mo with my stock clutch and its fine. Just added ~2mg of fuel across the range 2500-4000rpm so will see how well it goes later! Should be about another 5hp at the top end.

Adam,

So the only way forward with my car is to buy your engine? If this engine is as good as you say, why are you not using it?

Maybe it might be an option for another project in the future but not now. But thanks for the offer.



I like others on here don't have an endless pot to pour into our cars. I have a budget to stick to and think I am being sensible with the power and torque.

I have an upgraded clutch being sourced for the car and this will go in as soon as it arrives and everything else is in hand. The brakes have already been uprated, as will the suspension as soon as the weather warms up a bit; have the parts to do the job but its just too bloody cold right now! (And the interior plastic too brittle to remove to do the rear suspension!)


I want a sensible increase in power but I don't want to turn it into a boy racer toy either.


I want more power from the motor to make it more drivable for the trips I do and the loads I carry.


As I said earlier, I have a toy for blasting through the lanes whenever I want and that is Fun and a little different too.


I do thank you for your help and advice on this and other forums; its not often that you can find advice, and I do mean GOOD advice on the web gained through experience, instead of the anorak waffle or silly boy statements which seem to plague the lesser forums.



I am not looking to stop the world and turn it in the opposite direction with an excess of torque, just to up the performance a little to more respectable level for everyday use.



FF

To be honest mate i kept the engine after i crashed the car- hit a gate post whilst leaving a party- was a little tipsy and the mobile rang at the same with me trying to man-oeuvre the a4 trough the posts !
I have been looking endlessly at a b5 tdi quattro so i could transplant the engine but i could not find any worthy to spend money. I do have a friend who i sod a mint b5 tdi quattro so i could buy that back from him and use that as a base !
As my toys i do have a 300 Bhp a6 tdi quattro sport with the v6 AKE engine, a c5 allroad styled by ABT, a t4 transporter van, a b6 1.9PD Tdi tuned to 220 Bhp and a b5 1.8T quattro sport as runabouts ! Also bought a b6 v6 tdi quattro for my missus, bought it for my missus to use as a runabout but i might sell soon...









just sold this one recently:


as you can see ahead i am no short of projects...got a few cars- up to 10-12 at a time so i am reluctant to stick to one car for too long !

Adam,


Been having a rethink...


I have a spare AFN 110 engine which is complete apart from requiring a new camshaft... Its out of the car and has all the ancillaries on it, (Injector pump, power steering, alternator etc...) I am going to strip this one down completely, replace the camshaft, followers, new crankshaft bearings, regrind the crank if necessary, re-bore, pistons, rods etc all in slow time....

I work on an airfield and have loads of spare time available hence the overhaul and rebuild project . (I could fit your engine as you suggested but I need something to fill my time in between flights.)



Now back to the Avant... I have just put a new clutch in the car and it has only done about 6000 miles, its OEM so hopefully quality isn't an issue...

Instead of doing all the full enhancements to the engine in the car, (and going through problems as you have suggested I might,) I was thinking, As an interim measure (whilst the other engine is being rebuilt,) what would be the highest state of tune I could go to with the engine in the car and how would I get there (with new nozzles and a remap etc?) and what would be the max power/torque that the new clutch in the car would safely take?




(I have the PD130 turbo in the post which I could use on this engine if necessary, but was thinking of using it solely on the rebuilt donk.)



I have looked all over the forums and can't find the answers, can you help at all with any suggestions, max torque and BHP figures to aim for, part numbers etc?



Would like to make it a bit more sprightly whilst getting on with the other lump..










Nice collection of motors there!! If I had the room I might just have myself a similar collection!!


Any ideas how to do an RS4 beating Diesel? Which one to start with what engine etc? Just a thought for next year....

Then use the pd130 turbo and throw a set of 0.216 injector nozzles and have a chip tune, that should be the safest 170Bhp you will get but ask your tuner to limit torque under 2000rpm's. The BV43 is a little laggier and will come on boost a couple of hundred rpm's higher but will pull harder and with less EGT. I have a friend with a 240k a4 b5 quattro who has 180Bhp chip tune, bv43, audi AEL 140 Bhp injectors and pd 130 intake/EGR delete, his car pulls hard but flywheel rumbles in 4th gear. He since bought a new 11mm pump off german ebay and has a full drivetrain from a b5 v6 tdi quattro which will give him a stronger 01E gearbox and higher final drive.
If you go for the modds above you should easily break 200 Bhp...you'll need bigger brakes as well, 312mm will bring you to a halt for under 200 quid !

Well things have moved along a little, the Turbo has been fitted as have the new balanced nozzles, new vacuum hoses, boost pipes...


Now just waiting on a decent ECU to get socketed then remapped...


Any offers of a good serviceable one preferably already socketed????

Well depending on your injectors you should be good for more than 170bhp with that turbo, here's my RR result on the stock turbo in the ALH




Probably closer to 165bhp but still, not bad at all!

Found a brilliant chap in Redhill, Surrey, today who socketed my ECU whilst I waited, did a very very good job, guarantees his work for a year, (looking at how he does this, I would have thought he could do a 20yr warranty, it really is that neat!) And dropped everything to do it and charged the whole sum of thirty of your english pounds for the privilege! Totally worth the price.


Anyone else needs this service, I can honestly recommend him and his work.




Came back with the 160ish chips in... Great fun and very quick all round. 55 miles trip, 30 miles motorway speeds, some 100+ (about 20 miles worth and well into three figures, made the BMW 330i take a second look, then dropped in behind me!) and some A roads, and town work and the motor averaged about 52MPG. (brim fill to brim fill!)


Cant wait for Ben to do his stuff!

Great stuff Geoff, glad you got another ecu sorted, let me know when you're heading past next and we'll do some logs and tweaks!

When are you free?

I have a full on day tomorrow, starting at 5am two trips to DX and working with the Spit in the mid afternoon.

I could return around the LHR side of the M25 if you were free, but that might not be until about 8pm ish....


Any suggestions?


I could do with your chips and fettling, these chips in at the moment do make it smoke quite a lot under power....


But it does shift.... Lots!!

Not back til Sunday night now, so could do one evening next week?
I could also take another look at your smokey tune and send you chips in the post.
Do you have the tool to remove the chips?
I assume you disconnected the tuning box??
If you're smoking a lot with 1.25 bar boost you either have a boost leak or loads of fuel!

Geoff,

Got more info on your '160bhp' chips, it's for a bigger turbo and nozzles, and different MAP sensor so it will need a tweak. Just take it easy if you have lots of smoke when you floor it.

Also keep the other ecu (which we couldn't get working) and ill have another look at it.

Hi,

It didn't smoke at all with the other chips, the standard ECU with the black box thingy, (and yes I have removed it.) A light haze when feeding in the beans but no more. This looks more like 007 has had it fettled by Q!

I have a new boost pipe locating clip which I will put on tomorrow; it is wire locked at the moment and is very secure so I don't think I have a leak there.

The Join in the boost hose is air tight. It has been sealed with a rubber jointing compound and has a liberal amount of airtight self amalgamating tape over the joint so I guess it only leaves fuel. The fuel Consumption has increased a little; I have been limiting it to 80% throttle and at that setting it doesn't smoke but still pulls like a train! Its only the last bit that gives a smog big enough to frighten the Icelandic Ash Cloud!

I am working with the Spitfire from wednesday onwards so if you could do anything before then it would be handy.

Cheers,

G..

i'm available monday evening if you do wish to pop over?

That sounds good to me. I will just check with the office first but I am sure nothing is planned until wednesday onwards.


Also, the power delivery with these set of chips are almost on off.

Pause 2.... 3.... 4.... CRASH BANG WALLOP AND WERE OFF! Dog on the front seat, dog in the boot sort of thing!


In other words, It is a bit slow on the uptake then goes like the clappers... Sort of reminds me of Claire.... A Worcester girlie.... Many, many moons ago...

Ha!

That's likely to be boost lag and so the fuelling kicks in when the air becomes available on the smoke map.

Which isnt necessarily a bad thing if it kicks in at about 2500rpm, so you have a relaxed normal map below this rpm and then a rocket above it! Tends to be more gearbox and clutch friendly too (as long as there is some progression ) otherwise on a heavy-ish car it can strain things when the whiplash kicks in

I have now race520 , 11mm hybrid pump with de110 , gtb2260vk and it rides nice on 1.7bar. Maf disabled and i think there is no lag and no too much smoke. Egt could be at 700-800.I think when buy other injectors buy only 0.230 or 0.260. when buy turbo only gtb 17 or gtb22.

Well its been a while since I did an update so here it is.....


All hardware installed as mentioned previously and Ben has done his stuff with the remap and I must say I am seriously impressed!!

Took it to the Surrey Rolling road on saturday just out of curiosity and the figures were not quite as expected but still OK.

245ft lb and 152 BHP....... but I have discovered I have a leaky boost pipe so have ordered another to replace the fabricated one... Have cleaned out the intercooler and that has made a difference, even with the leaky pipe, (which doesn't let go until about 3000 rpm so is still drivable).
Once the new pipe is fitted, it should do the 170bhp ish mark as suggested but the torque has transformed the car completely. You can overtake in motorcycle gaps quite safely and thats with a leaky pipe too!

Have ordered an EGR delete kit and a PD130 inlet manifold as the old AFN one was absolutely caked with crud when I cleaned it out a few months ago, probably had less than half the airflow due to deposits inside the unit.

So I have a little further yet to go but we are nearly there.


One thing though, I cannot recommend Ben highly enough! He has spent quite a long time doing logs and fettling a bit here and there and the end result is truly spectacular!

If you are looking at doing the same upgrade as I, I would seriously get in touch with him and see if he can help. You wont be disappointed!!



.

Many thanks Geoff
Post your dyno plot here if you can (or I can).
The torque dip you saw on the dyno does appear to be a drop in boost and so fuel above 3000rpm, but we can look at that if we do some more logs. Could also be a sensor issue, of course.
We should have another 15bhp at the top end, so something is stopping this at the mo.

When are you free??

You can post the dyno if you get the time, I am struggling with transferring pics at the moment for some reason... Must be an Apple problem.

@ Wheels




@ Crank



It certainly pulled ok when we logged after the last remap. That dip in the curve must be noticeable?
Have just texted you

Seems to be quite a few Uk AFN people coming on the site . good to see

Ben have you had a chance to look at my map for me ? know your busy but not beable to use the car to its full potential is a bit embarrassing atm ! haha

Dankemp said:

Seems to be quite a few Uk AFN people coming on the site . good to see

Click to expand...

For sure, us golfy drivers are feeling out of place lol

1749VA + PP764 and a remap. Dont spend more money then this.
I have tested all the possible setups and the best all rounder is VA+PP764.
Why VA?
VA is bolt on , probably only need to buy a new boost pipe.
Its boost early so no low down drive ability loss and it can make safely 160 to 170hp.
Why not BV43?
It has a lot less low end torque so you will end up using more RPM then using more fuel. Driving with a BV43 in town under 2000rpm is not the best experience..
PP764 from what I tested can make a lot better mileage then PP502 and R520 no matter what you do on a remap , PP764 will always win in consumption.

Above this I dont think it is worth the trouble and money spent on this particular car.

ArturCosta said:

1749VA + PP764 and a remap. Dont spend more money then this.
I have tested all the possible setups and the best all rounder is VA+PP764.
Why VA?
VA is bolt on , probably only need to buy a new boost pipe.
Its boost early so no low down drive ability loss and it can make safely 160 to 170hp.
Why not BV43?
It has a lot less low end torque so you will end up using more RPM then using more fuel. Driving with a BV43 in town under 2000rpm is not the best experience..
PP764 from what I tested can make a lot better mileage then PP502 and R520 no matter what you do on a remap , PP764 will always win in consumption.

Above this I dont think it is worth the trouble and money spent on this particular car.

Click to expand...

Well I have to say that's a good choice, I'm already making that sort of power with the stock GT1749V but have the VA sitting here almost ready to fit to my golf.

But, on the other hand the power is addictive and I think if I had the money I would go bigger regardless of the car. A lot of these parts are easily sold on anyway so it's no big loss. Another option is that you can always pick up a shell in better condition then fit your goodies in it.

I can't argue with the mpg's versus power though, I'm still up around the 60mpg mark. More if I'm cruising but that's rare lol

My BV43 is perfectly drivable from 1100rpm upwards in 4th-5th, when cruising through town. Its super-drivable. There is still plenty of grunt for it not to struggle, even in my Passat Wagon. I am surprised how good it is. If I floor it I wont get much of course, but there is plenty there for it to trickle along and pull smoothly.

Admittedly I can see how a smaller turbo can only be better low down, but there is no issue at all. And when I get to about 2200rpm, the BV43 takes off with R520's

But you will need a clutch upgrade. I agree with Artur if you dont want to change the clutch.

BV43 is bolt on too, again just a boost pipe from the compressor required.

Ben,

As there is the indication, albeit intermittently from the number 3 injector, is it worth having a word with the suppliers and see if they will upgrade the nozzles to the PP764 or equivalent if I chop these in? I don't want to undo all the work you have done but if there is a problem with number 3, they would need the set back to balance another inj so wondered if it were worth trying?

Better MPG, if these do make a difference, would be a plus but not essential.

Would these injectors put the tune into the realms of upgraded clutch territory?