Does anyone have any clues for me?

Also, check and see if your car has a little check valve thing on the fuel supply line back by the tank. Youll need to uncover the sender under the seat and disconnect the line so you can pull some more of it up to see the line.

If there is a valve present, remove it completely, reprime system and monitor starting over the next few days.

runonbeer - Thanks for the replies. To clarify - when I pulled the fuel sending unit, on the supply side there was a brass looking flathead screw mounted in a plastic plate supported by three arms to the sides of the supply cylinder. I imagined that this was the piece that people drilled out. I tried to unscrew the brass screw and it did not - thinking about it now, has this adjusted how much fuel can be supplied to the pump? Because I could not unscrew this brass piece I decided to not go through with the drilling procedure. My tank is about 7/8 full right now, so pulling the sending unit may be a little messy, but it will be worth it if I know what is safe to drill out.

Reading your post again; I see this is not what you are talking about; I should be looking for a check valve on the hard line that runs away from the fuel sending unit. I will check for this valve later tonight when I am by the car.

I have pulled the pressure regulator and thought nothing of it because the expansion ring was flush with the brass body. Looking through Drivbiwire's pressure regulator repair PDF, I see that I should have checked and made sure the plunger can move freely through the bore. This could be sticking and it is very simple to check; I will do so when I get home as well. Excellent DBW PDF for pressure regulator repair can be found here:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/VE_Pressure_regulator_Repair.pdf

When you mention stuck vanes, do you mean the vanes on the turbo? I am not aware of any vanes in the IP. I don't seem to have any issues at all once the car is running. From what I could tell, the boost pressure sensor is never too far off in regards to requested boost and actual boost. I will not rule it out because anything could be the issue here, but I do regularly run WOT to keep the turbo vanes free of grit and keep the oil out of the IC.

EDIT: Also; I do not currently own the full version of VCDS. I will most likely have to purchase this to get the basic settings timing info. I wish I had enough spare cash for another IP, or that someone nearby had a spare that I could use, but that is not the case. Cash is kind of tight now and I was trying to fix this without spending more than I need to. I might purchase VCDS this week so I can stop using VCDS-Lite with this third party cable. Having money for a 200k timing belt change and trying to move AND having this IP trouble all at the same time is a little tough on the checking account.

Thanks again for all the assistance; I'll be owing you guys some lunch or some beers for all the help.

~Will

The vanes are the transfer pump vanes in the injection pump. If they are sticking, you won't build steady pressure in the pump.

runonbeer - Thanks for the replies. To clarify - when I pulled the fuel sending unit, on the supply side there was a brass looking flathead screw mounted in a plastic plate supported by three arms to the sides of the supply cylinder. I imagined that this was the piece that people drilled out. I tried to unscrew the brass screw and it did not - thinking about it now, has this adjusted how much fuel can be supplied to the pump? Because I could not unscrew this brass piece I decided to not go through with the drilling procedure. My tank is about 7/8 full right now, so pulling the sending unit may be a little messy, but it will be worth it if I know what is safe to drill out.

Click to expand...

That sounds fishy to me. I've never had a car with a problematic sender so I really don't know much about them. I will say that aNUT & I have both fixed cars with starting issues by removing the little valve on the fuel line external tho the sender/tank. The valve is not present on all cars

If you purchase the license for the vcds light for $99?, it has the tdi timing graph in it. Its a great tool to have.

runonbeer - I'll check for that valve asap. Here is the link to the fuel sending unit drill mod:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205619

Snizzbob - I will probably purchase the license for VCDS Light but it is still $99 I don't want to spend if I can avoid it.

runonbeer - No check valve on the feed line.

whatedog - Thanks for the clarification on the vanes in the IP. I have read through a number of articles and the Bosch manual on the VE IP; am I correct to believe that the vanes you are talking about are what is indicated in step 11 here:

http://gnarlodious.com/vanagon/bosch_pump/-Rebuild

If so I am thinking that short of a rebuild, the best way to get these vanes to stop sticking would be to start the engine from a can of lubro-moly diesel purge or something similar?

I have also read from another member that TC-W3 type oil can be added to diesel to help lubricate pump internals. I am thinking that I might mix some diesel purge and a little TC-W3 oil into a clean glass container; start the engine with the IP feeding from that' let the IP push that solution through it until it is almost gone and then kill the engine before it before it runs out of fuel... Good idea?

I feel like I should try that and if it fails start looking into other more expensive modes of repairing things.

Also: I read about corrosion potentially setting in to the electronic connection to the IP. I was going to pull it off but I noticed there was another one of those tamper proof bits similar to what is required to pull the QA but a good deal smaller. Is there anywhere I can find a bit for this or should I just slot it with my dremel tool and use a flathead driver? I am also going to check the start of injection solenoid and see if the leads or connection to this are damaged. I somehow missed it while reading through the diagrams about fifteen times.

Bill thems the vanes.

Are you sure the corrosion was on that end of the harness and not on the connector near the oil filter? I'm sure that tool is available somewhere, but it would probably have to come from Europe.

I can't be certain that the corrosion was right on the front of the IP. I should pull the connector apart that is near the oil filter and double check it. The post I recall didn't mention and strange size bits or dremeling to remove things so it is likely the connector near the oil filter.

The start of injection solenoid also looks like it is nearly inaccessible without the whole IP completely removed from the car; although the line running to it looks to be fine.

Any votes for an attempt at starting the car and feeding the IP a solution of lubro-moly and some TC-W3? I'm thinking about 50-75 ml of TC-W3 to 500 ml of diesel purge...

I don't understand the reason for the Two Stroke oil.

And, the SOI solenoid can only be accessed with the pump off. You are correct SIR!

I believe the two stroke oil is used for extra lubrication of pump internals. I'm borrowing the idea from this post:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=347754&highlight=tc-w3

It could be completely unnecessary, I just thought it was a good idea. Something else I read and will probably try would be to pull the QA and Mityvac the diesel out of the pump, then fill it with diesel purge and let it sit and soak the internals for a while before I try starting. I believe that will be my next course of action.

Thanks again for all the help!

I worked on the car a bit this morning, and I have to say; now that I understand how the vanes function to build pressure in the pump, I completely understand the issue and why the pump is acting the way it is.

I let the pump sit in some power service, then started the car feeding off of a mason jar full of power service. There were quite a few little bubbles coming out of the return line, they eventually cleared up after about 15 minutes of idling. Starting the car still seemed to take a few second of cranking but it is starting better than before. I stopped at Auto Zone before work and grabbed some Seafoam, some Power Service Diesel Kleen and some TC-W3 two cycle oil.

I made a mixture of these, about 60% Seafoam, 35% Diesel Kleen and 5% TC-W3. I drove to work and took the QA off, Mityvac'd the diesel out and filled it with this mixture. I'm going to let this sit and soak the internals while I'm working and hopefully this will free up the internals the rest of the way.

Will the Seafoam affect the gasket seals in the IP? I realized it as an afterthought, but I feel that $20 for a new set of seals beats $1000 for a new IP or having to rebuild it.

Update: soaking the IP had no apparent effect on the vanes. I still cannot start the car unless the QA is far to the right. I feel I am coming to a juncture and would like any input on the two options I see here.

One: I can disconnect the fuel lines from the IP and cap them with blocked off lines to isolate the IP from the rest of the fuel system and fill the IP with something like seafoam which should eat away at any varnish that could have built up in the IP and cause the vanes to stick. I can let the IP soak like that for a few days before trying to start. I personally feel that this would be a waste of time.

Two: Pull the injection pump and rebuild it. Once it is apart I can confirm the vanes are sticking or some other internals are worn. I do not have money to get the pump rebuilt and so I would do this myself with the help of a digital camera photographing the disassembly and reassembly process, the Bosch VE manual, a clean workspace, all my tools and this helpful link with pictures of the VE reassembly process:

http://gnarlodious.com/vanagon/bosch_pump/-Rebuild

Amy other opinions here would be greatly valued; if I go through with the rebuild I will document that in another thread that could possibly be some sort of guidance to other members here.

Thanks for the help,
Will

can you afford like $250 for a used pump? I think I sold my used one for like $200...

I thought I had heard you needed some special equipment to rebuild the pump, but heck if I know..

11mm ALH injection pumps for the auto transmission seem to go for 600-800 used. My thought is: if I'm going to have to buy another one, why not try rebuilding my current one? I don't have much to loose...

I'm reading now and some are saying it is possible to use the less expensive 10mm injection pump from a manual transmission instead of the 11mm that came stock on the automatic. Anyone have thoughts on this? I plan to keep the car stock.

You can run a 10mm pump no problem. It might make 5hp less then your current setup, but who cares.

I might go that route, but if I'm going to be purchasing another pump I am going to stick with my original plan to attempt a rebuild of my current one and see how that goes first. Thanks for the info on the pump

Billshire said:

11mm ALH injection pumps for the auto transmission seem to go for 600-800 used. My thought is: if I'm going to have to buy another one, why not try rebuilding my current one? I don't have much to loose...

Click to expand...

totally missed that it was an auto...but, as others have said, you can run 10mm...make sure you don't give up your 11mm, as the core is worth more than a 10mm...even if your rebuild goes poorly...

Yes, I'm going to wait for the weather to get nicer (stop raining) so that I can pull the IP and try the rebuild. While I pull the thing apart I will not be tampering with the case pressure set assembly on the end of the head, and I will not be replacing the main shaft bearing, so this pump rebuild will essentially just be a strip and clean-up of all the pump internals. I'll probably have more updates here if I loose my gumption and decide to try to Seafoam the pump instead of rebuilding.

Thanks again everyone for the help.

I think you'd be better off just putting a used pump on it. It's been a while since I paid more than $300 for a used pump. Most of the time I buy 'em off guys here in the classifieds.

Also, before you do anything you should get a full version of VCDS and look at timing in basic settings.

runonbeer - I will do that. Last time I got the car running I had a code for Start of Injection Intermittent. Not near my laptop where it was saved so I can't give you the actual P#### code.

Without access to basic settings, in group 4 fields two and three I had timing of .4* ATDC and 1.1* ATDC or BTDC, I can't recall. When I get home I will be able to double check. The solenoid duty cycle was 2.8%. It could be too far advanced, perhaps I should try retarding the timing a tad.

I won't have money for VCDS until I get paid this Friday and with other bills, I won't be able to afford another pump till my next paycheck... Fun.

Question: Would it be feasible and/or possible to swap the 11mm head I have into a 10mm pump body?

I think the cam plates are different. Don't do anything to your pump until you see timing in BS. perhaps someone in your area has VCDS you could use. A timing code...why didn't you say that before?

I hadn't mentioned the timing code because it just cropped up for the first time yesterday when I was working on things. It has been a hectic few days.

it really sounds like the thing is starving for fuel. i dont know enough about diesels to tell you how to fix it. haha i know with a gas motor you need the full capacity on the fuel rail to get some cars going. also the white smoke tells me that the thing is seriously lean. you are probably on the right track with the injeection pump. keep us updated

but yeah, low compression could cause hard starting. the fans, and hole in the exhaust. no way.

Well, here's the story:

I got everything (cam, crank, IP) lined up to TDC and that didn't resolve the issue. Still was not starting well/at all. I bought a 10mm IP from richard78 and it arrived Thursday.

I took the new IP and swapped it in to the car,
made sure everything was lined up to TDC
primed the IP
cracked the nuts at the injectors
cranked to bleed #3
engine exploded (joke)
tightened nuts at injector 3 and cracked 2 and 4
bled 2 and 4 while cranking and closed them up
cracked #1 to bleed and accidentally started the car while bleeding it
closed #1
started the car

It wasne even a whole revolution of the engine. I mean, the key wasn't even all the way turned and the engine was running. And, it was not a fluke, the car now starts like this every time!

I had no idea the car could start so quickly. I am completely thrilled.

Lots of thanks everyone here who helped narrow this down for me.


So, after I pulled the old IP - it seems the PO (or some mechanic along the way) did a number on it. to the left of the hole where one would pin the IP, there was a second hole drilled into the pump housing. Also, it seems there is a crack in the housing near the pin hole.

It also seems that whoever fiddled with this pump put everything back on with an impact wrench. It was impossible to undo the 22mm nut on the end of the pump drive shaft. Without a vice to hold the sprocket, I attempted to pin the sprocket and turn the 22mm nut loose. This was my own fool idea and separated a chunk from the housing where the crack was. I'm probably going to keep this old IP for parts and enjoy driving my car for a while before I worry about it.

Thanks again people!

~Will

Yep. Sometimes it comes down to checking everything else to leave just one possibility. I'm glad that you have it sorted out now. It sounds like someone really did a number on that pump. I have forgotten if you mentioned being able to check the timing of your pump now? If not, find somone that has the full version and get that dialed in.

Thanks whitedog, I haven't found anyone with a full version near me so that I can get the timing perfect, I'm planning on purchasing VCDS next paycheck, so I'll be looking then.

Currently, I'm just happy to have a car that starts, and it starts quicker than any gasser I've seen!