VW Scirocco CR170 - CBBB - performance build

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
VW Scirocco CR170 - CBBB - GTB2260.

Hi guys
Over in the UK I am building a performance based VW Scirocco which has the CR170 engine.
My previous cars have all been VW's, bit of a love affair.
My first one, a 1.9 BKC PD Engine Golf V, which ended up having a Darkside GTB1756vk and PD130 injectors making 221bhp and 365lb ft.


I then upgraded to a Golf V GTI DSG, which was a huge project for me, with Airlift struts, E-level, etc. This was Revo Stage 2 with Pipewerx Decat, Evoms Intake

Now I've moved onto this Scirocco with the CR170 engine.
It was bought as standard with a high specification.
Including DCC adaptive damping, Xenons, etc
Installed my Recaro Buckets (from a B7 RS4).

I fitted it with Superpro Camber adjustable ball joints, H&R lowering springs and Powerflex wishbone bushes (front & rear)

All the suspension coming off...

Here's how it looked the next morning after Alignment.
 
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xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Fitted a MKV GTI Gearstick.

and a new Bosch S5 007 Battery.
Adjustable quickshift kit.

Gave it a full service with new BMC Panel Filter, new genuine oil and air filter, Millers Nanodrive 5w40 race oil, new arb links, and 12mm H&R spacers all around (needed because of the brakes).
Aston Martin DB9 4 Pots, EBC USR 340mm discs, custom carrier adaptors, HEL braided lines and Pagid RS4-2 blue pads.

Fitted a Fiscon PF03 Advanced MFD add on.

And Superpro track dogbone insert.

I work as a detailer evenings and weekends for my friends company.
Gave it a bath :)

Brakes certainly were big enough...
 
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xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Took it to a place I'm sure many of you are familiar with, Darkside Developments, for a DPF delete and Stage 2 mapping.



And here are the results.


EGT's limited to 850 degree C verified with Polar MFD add on.
195bhp and 340lb ft.

Stock intercooler at this time.
Can't see how people can get a genuine 220bhp from these engines.

Changed the MKV GTI Gearknob for a one-off Golf MkVII (7)



Then finished off the rest of the exhaust with a Eurojet system.
A Eurojet 3 inch V Band system, This exhaust was orignally going on my GTI, but as I was selling it, I lined Alex (a good friend who owns a company called AKS Tuning) up with another buyer - Who had since bailed. Fortunately for me...
20141219_161642 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
Looks lovely. Very shiney...very big.
Firstly we inspected the Darkside down pipe to see how we'd have to adapt. The Darkside system was 3 inch from the turbo to about half way down the exhaust tunnel, where it was reduced to I think it's 2.5 inchs to the stock system.
We (I say we, Alex did it :D) needed to fabricate up an adjoining link pipe. So we started with some 3 inch stainless steel piping.
20141219_163504 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
Measure twice, cut once.
Or in Alex's case, measure once (and do it properly) and cut once.
20141219_163548 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
Out comes the TIG welder! To connect the new link pipe to the existing Eurojet link pipe at one of the 90 degree bends..
20141219_164615 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
 
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xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Not bad for a quickie!!!
20141219_165534 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
Now onto the car.....
20141219_165601 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
Having to cut away the reducer off the back of the Darkside DP... not nice :( !!
20141219_170931 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
After a slip on sleeve was fitted to connect to the Darkside downpipe, as well as mounting up the rest of the exhaust system less than 2 hours later we had the following:
20141219_172343 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
20141219_173207 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
20141219_173223 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr
I am booked in at Darkside again for a GTB2260 kit so am looking forward to that on the 16th of February.
I have clutch and intercooler going on before hand and I will be updating as and when I have more performance related enhancements. And any news or information about these engines I will share, whatever I do I try and learn and understand about them as much as possible. :)

Nothing too special so far but understand this is a mostly American forum and you guys don't get the Scirocco thought you'd guys like to see a build from across the point and it'll be nice to share the progress :)
 
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midntdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Location
New London
TDI
2015 Golf SE 6SP
Jealous, wish we got the Sirocco here. Thanks for rubbing it in our faces, love the car though.
 

Cha2ga

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Location
Easley, SC
TDI
'11 JSW
I want another Scirroco ! I bought a new one in 87 and put 350k on it. Never replaced the clutch. Sold it with no problems except a non working drivers window. Regret selling.
 

bgcarter1

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Location
Australia
TDI
07 DSG Jetta, 06 Manual Jetta both sold Now Touareg V6 TDI
Very nice car, i would have been happy with your first mkv! Keep up the good work and i hope the new turbo kit is worth the wait :)
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Jealous, wish we got the Sirocco here. Thanks for rubbing it in our faces, love the car though.
yeah very strange VWOA didn't bring it over... sure there's a reason for it though.

I want another Scirroco ! I bought a new one in 87 and put 350k on it. Never replaced the clutch. Sold it with no problems except a non working drivers window. Regret selling.
Back in the day all of the VW's were probably more reliable!! :D too many electrics now.
this one feels good though, so fingers crossed. :eek:

Got any pics of your old one?

Very nice car, i would have been happy with your first mkv! Keep up the good work and i hope the new turbo kit is worth the wait :)
It was a really good car bless it.
Although I blew the gearbox up at Santa Pod drag strip.




It's a HUGE investment for not much extra BHP (perhaps 40-50bhp and another 20ft lb or torque, although it will hold it's power for a much larger proportion of the rev range) but once Darkside have cracked the fuel pump and injectors, then we can start going for the 300bhp barrier which is ultimately what I'm aiming for!
 

CourierGuy

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Location
Canada
TDI
2002 Golf(Summer) 2003 Golf(Winter)
LOVE that body style. Saw a chick here, in Canada last summer... at the fuel station. She was working for the Greek embassy. She imported her black Sirocco for her 2 year stay. She was very nice, chatted with me for 15mins.

Not a TDI, but none the less, a very nice chassis. Id buy it over a golf in a heart beat.

Thanks for the car porn! :)
 

CourierGuy

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Location
Canada
TDI
2002 Golf(Summer) 2003 Golf(Winter)
Dirty sailor.

Both actually... She was quite friendly and the conversation was nice. She was a bit of a car buff. She knew what she was driving. And she got guys like me come up to her all the time. She expects it.

She wanted HER car, not a rental or whatever the embassy would provide. She didn't want to shop for a car. She took the mileage allowance. She wanted her VW.

And she loves Canadians. She said were all so nice people.
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Those brakes make me moist...

Beautiful car thus far!


Haha, cheers pal.
They do stop you very well indeed so serve their purpose :D


^ What they said plus, its a Scirocco! Really impressed with your work.
Cheers matey. Hopefully it will make the power and be improved to drive and I will love it a whole lot more.

LOVE that body style. Saw a chick here, in Canada last summer... at the fuel station. She was working for the Greek embassy. She imported her black Sirocco for her 2 year stay. She was very nice, chatted with me for 15mins.

Not a TDI, but none the less, a very nice chassis. Id buy it over a golf in a heart beat.

Thanks for the car porn! :)
They are indeed a very good style of car, at the time in 2008 or whenever, when it was first released it looked way ahead of it's time. Still looks good today but it's quite a familiar shape in the UK.
even the 2014 MY is the same just with slightly different bumpers and mk7 dashboard/engines.

Nice story about the greek Embassy chick :cool: what a cool car to have that side of the pond.


I LOVE the Scirocco and would definitely buy one if they were offered over here.
:D



In a few unperformance related improvements.

I found the original Bi-Xenons were seriously lacking especially compared to my Golf, which had brilliant headlights.
Bought some Osram Xenarc night breaker unlimited, after a lot of research, to replace the old bulbs which I guess were factory fit. They were also branded as Osram xenarc which I guess are standard fitment.

Have only had them on for a few hours, according to some internet forums there's a long run in period before they reach bull brightness (approximately 80-100 hours) but very much improved night time visibility.




Also the British winter is quite bad for cars because they salt the roads and it always rains, so ends up caking your car in crap.
Nick got a new high end Karcher hot water diesel jet wash so I gave it a try. Didn't get any finished pictures but now the car is clean after being the dirtiest it's ever been (thus far) in my short 4 and a bit months of ownership!

I'm sure in the US you guys have it far worse but over here it's pretty tragic haha



Happy new year to everyone. :)
 

clamb

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Location
Stouffville
TDI
2011 Golf Wagon; 2010 Golf Wagon
How did those poll bushes go in? I'd like to do that for the wifes wagon
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Press them out with a press and push the new ones in.
Very tight to fit as there's no movement at all in the poly bushes, we did the whole front end (minus roll bars) it took like 30 minutes to just get the bolt holes to line up and definitely a ramp job rather than jack / axle stands.

Big improvement to the handling though.
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Few developments.

Got intercooler and some of the pipework through.






The intercooler itself, and these two lower Intercooler hoses will be going on in February, along with my new clutch and flywheel. The rest of the pipework will be going on when the turbo kit is fitted in a months time.


Had the car dyno'd as well today ...

Did broadly the same figures, about 10bhp difference.
201 / 203 bhp
346 / 384 ft lb

at the crank, at the wheels on both runs it did 190bhp and 325 and 358 ft lb respectively.

Flat bhp similar to the darkside dyno, sooo... happy with that for another month lol



Just goes to show different dynos can read differently. I think Darkside's dyno is perhaps a bit more accurate, the first run the car had been sat for a while so had much higher intake temperatures as they were setting up the dyno before turning on the fans.
 
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mickyTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Location
Longford, Ireland
My CR 140 Passat ( which uses the identicle engine to the CR 170 just minus the turbo). I fitted a CR 170 turbo and DPF delete and like yours only got 197bhp peak bhp. Not sure where claims of 220bhp are coming from lol. Even so it does have great top end power for a diesel.
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Your exhaust sounds fantastic! Very jealous of your car.
Thank you mate, it does sound great.
On stock turbo it did drone at 70mph cruising speed...now with new turbo that's gone - happy days lol.

My CR 140 Passat ( which uses the identicle engine to the CR 170 just minus the turbo). I fitted a CR 170 turbo and DPF delete and like yours only got 197bhp peak bhp. Not sure where claims of 220bhp are coming from lol. Even so it does have great top end power for a diesel.
Your exhaust sounds fantastic! Very jealous of your car.
Sounds like just under the 200bhp mark is the true sort of area for these engines.
I bet you are happy with how that goes now :)
They drive very good, almost like a petrol.

Now we've got quite a lot of updates over a few weeks time but I forgot to update (plus I've not had the time).

Firstly - Clutch and intercooler.

Big update time!!!


this went on today. (And I immediately stalled it twice and my leg now actually hurts).
*

*
Helix 6 paddle clutch & pressure plate and new DMF (believe it's a Golf R one because the clutch assembly would not work with a CR170 DMF). Alex very kindly spent a whole load of time researching and measuring on various cars over the last couple of weeks to ensure it was going to work..it as he found out that the normal DMF for these engines when mated to a Helix clutch didn't provide the correct "height" (in effect the clutch would not disengage ... same issue I had with my original Darkside clutch kit back on my old 1.9 TDI). - This one went on and fitted nicely!
*
In addition to this, a few other general transmission related upgrades, the bleed valve had the restrictor removed from it, which basically is put in place to make the clutch pedal less springy - if you press your clutch down and lift your foot off it at speed you'll probably notice that the pedal is slightly delayed coming up...(it wasn't ever "bad" before...but we could improve it..) so you get a much better clutch feel. Despite the very bitey and grabby nature of any uprated clutch, the benefit is that it's such a "positive" pedal feel, you know exactly what's going on - in addition it makes for rapid gear changes as the clutch engagement is basically instantaneous.
*
Further more Alex shoe-horned me into getting the complete 42DD shift linkage kit... along with metal side to side linkage from a Mk1 Cupra R I believe..which is metal rather than the CRAPPY, wobbly and pathetic plastic one fitted as stock to the Rocco..which already broke previously and I had to replace it when I could go from 2nd to 4th in one fell motion. He also modified the bolts on my quickshifter to eliminate excess "wobble"...
*

*
*
*
*due to a monumental cock up on my part regarding scheduling dates and what not, I wasn't able to be on hand to assist with the clutch change hence the generic lack of pictures..although as a by product I did get a ride in the Octavia Estate which is around the 400bhp mark...slippy diff and lambo brakes.. yummy. Sounded awesome and it's just insane and hilarious when a pimped out estate Racekor comes blaring past at 120...reminds me of the old Volvo BTCC estates but I'm getting distracted..
*
After another cock up, with me being very poorly lately and not really with it, leaving without the inter cooler at home...meant a 180 mile return journey to pick up my new cooler from home but this doubled as a chance to get to know my new clutch and shifter and i can honestly say i've never been more pleased with how my knob feels in my hand. it feels very slick and positive (not HIV) and again just adds to the driving pleasure. :)*infact i find moving my knob more and more just for pleasure.*
*
*I started the day with a premier inn buffet breakfast..hehe.

So day two...
Intercooler time

20150212_110249 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr



The whole front end comes off nicely leaving plenty of room to work.

20150212_124513 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

On went the new Darkside intercooler... some interesting facts RE Intercooler...

Stock IC weight.. 3.8kg..
Peron IC ....7kg
Darkside IC... 11kg lol

Also we determined it's basically a THS Intercooler..

Also, the new intercooler being a bit bigger, pushed the whole assembly forward, meaning it wouldn't fit behind this section of the bumper.. basically a tough plasticy piece, can't see any practical purpose...so we chopped it off.

Off came the air conditioning rad too, which we determined that we may as well replace it, because it was very stonechipped and buggered. So was discharged and the condensor replaced with a new one and then re-gassed as appropriate.

20150212_114433 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

20150212_135539 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Also given new Millers Nanodrive CFS 5w40 oil and gen filter.

Intake temps are well down and now as low as 0.5 degree above ambient (vs 3 degrees above ambient) on a cruise and greatly increase speed in recovery of temperatures, and keeping temps down during acceleration. So well chuffed with that.
The DsD supplied pipework was OK, one side was too long (fine, just cut it down, although needed to be slightly better angled) and one side was very nearly too short..needed to be a bit longer.. luckily Alex was able to get it to work.
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
And then down at Darkside...


With the DsD cooler I'm now finding that my cruising intake temps are as low as 0.5 degrees BELOW ambient (I monitor on my polar) and recovery rates are greatly improved on the stock cooler..drops from 22-23 to 6 or 7 very quickly. Heatsoak also seems much much less of an issue, I have seen intake temps up to 45 degrees with my old cooler after parking up for a few minutes - the highest I've seen since the cooler went on in similar ambient conditions and pre-shutdown conditions is 22...so a big improvement.

So on Monday morning after setting off at 5am... again..... I arrived at Darkside to see the bumblebee on the ramps..

20150216_100340 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Popped over to the other unit and saw my brand new GTB2260 and tubular manifold... my manifold came off their Arosa after a few dyno runs ... little piece of diesel history if you were such interested in rubbish like that haha and saved me a few bob...which later turned out to be a godsend..as I will explain.

Anyway I left them with the car and we carried on up to Scotland...for a holiday!
Staying in Edinburgh, had loads of fun and I will upload a few pics to share when I've had the chance to pull them off my Camera.

20150216_161613 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Anyway, the car was due to be collected on Saturday.
It all seemed well and I was getting regular updates. Then I had some bad news...the car wasn't running happily at all...was not boosting right, was very smokey, and would only do 206bhp....the EGT sensor had failed and the battery kept going flat... this was on Wednesday. They also removed the Swirl Flaps on the Inlet for me, something that could have possibly caused issues but it hadn't in this case, although, same as the EGR - they were all gunked up... as we get closer and closer to Saturday I get an Email at 5:45 on Friday night (by now we were staying in Barnsley) saying basically the car is not running right and they'd need more time... things happen , and I was kept up to date all the time, so I wasn't bothered. But was panicking trying to arrange to borrow cars or worst case, rent a car for the next week.. Darkside had given me FOC a EGT sensor which seemed to do the job...

I popped along at 11:30 on Saturday morning just to check the car over myself. I paid a large chunk of the bill and said that I would leave the car with them..just as we were heading out the door, Ryan came through beaming away saying he thinks he's just fixed it..but wasn't sure - so I waited around. After a few hours I was told the car was ready!! But some bits needed tweaking and we also needed to get a NEW EGT sensor..the one they gave me FOC seemed to work for a while - but then stopped reading over a certain temperature which was limiting power..so we had to get a new EGT sensor.. Very happy and big thanks to DsD for hanging on and really working hard to get it running well.


So the final result is 237bhp and 375lb ft which is a teeny bit low but around the money.. their own CR170 did 242.. and mine has done a fair more few miles to be fair, they are also running a prototype HPFP.

20150221_144510 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

It was interesting to note that after fitting the intercooler, the car made exactly the same power but it held the power at the top end better... from 3800 to 5k, a consistent 5-6bhp more.
The spike on the graph is not ideal but you don't feel it on the road... another aspect of "dyno charts don't tell the whole story".
It drives VERY nicely and smoothly... love it. It feels MUCH more aggressive on the road and it's absolutely quicker than my Stage 2 GTI was...which was never dynoed but they go between 250 and 275. It feels like 280bhp to be fair, and on the road it's much faster than the figures suggest.

Gonna let everything bed in for a few thousand miles then we'll start trackdaying...

Now the plans are...

- Get the new wheels on.. Team Dynamic Pro Race 1.2s - try to find some slicks for 2 of my Scirocco wheels to use at Drag events.
- Superpro rear suspension bushes
- H&R Anti Roll Bars
- 335mm rear brake setup
- Limited Slip Diff
- R Line bodywork and paint

Cheers for reading.
 
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mickyTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Location
Longford, Ireland
That's fairly rapid, i'm quite sure my old vRS 2.0 TFSI KO4'd with 324bhp would have it's work cut out against that! CR engines seem to respond good with modifying. How on earth is it so quick with only 237 bhp?
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
That's fairly rapid, i'm quite sure my old vRS 2.0 TFSI KO4'd with 324bhp would have it's work cut out against that! CR engines seem to respond good with modifying. How on earth is it so quick with only 237 bhp?
It does feel far stronger than the figure suggests.
I'm still getting used to it and figuring out where to keep the revs to keep it moving in the best way... think short shifting at 4500 may be good as it keeps the torque higher.

Only a couple of months till our first VW drag event of the year so I'll be there
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Maybe when I get some time.

Apologies for the long delay on replying, didn't know I had an update.




Anyway - on Sunday was the first drag day of the VW calender in the UK.
Really happy with the results!!


My timing slips :)

2015-04-13_04-09-57 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr




IMG_1455-37 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr


Have spoken to Darkside regarding lowering my rev limit, they also say there's a new file for my car which should make even more power! So they need my car again for a few days, will just need to sort out when! :)
Ryan also got a video of my car so he said he will upload it and send me the link :)
 
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