2012 Passat TDI oil change

Found sources for filters, oil, adblue and ready to do my own changes as do not like the thought of going 10k between changes on 5 qts of oil. Mine was black after 1200miles. To my question, on this new engine, does anyone know with certainty whether the drain plug washer is reusable or needs to be changed each time. From what I can tell from my research the answers are all over the map. Again, specific to 2012 TDI motor.

Found sources for filters, oil, adblue and ready to do my own changes as do not like the thought of going 10k between changes on 5 qts of oil. Mine was black after 1200miles. To my question, on this new engine, does anyone know with certainty whether the drain plug washer is reusable or needs to be changed each time. From what I can tell from my research the answers are all over the map. Again, specific to 2012 TDI motor.

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From the what I've read you would most likely do your motor a favor(and your wallet) by waiting for the 10,000 mile mark to change oil. Diesel oil turns black almost immediately after changing it. Do some searching on here, you will see oil analysis reports showing the validity of waiting until 10,000 miles.

I hear you and have read that the initial oil fill from the factory is "special" and is formulated to provide for proper break-in over 10k. I can accept that premise but find it hard to accept that the initial fill is some special formulation. Accepting the initial fill stays in for 10k don't understand how it can be detrimental to have fresh oil without contaminates etal. The dealer mechanic/shop mgr who told me he was factory certified and highest rated agreed with my premise that interium changes would be good fo the motor.

BTW, I have several diesels including the T444 PSD and that oil stays quite clean for several thousand miles. Same for my commercial equipment. I change all those more often than factory recommended intervals and all including oldest stuff is still going strong without ANY motor issues.

Answering your original question it is recommended to change the plug each time. I however have been known to reuse at least once without issue.

Commenting on your dilemma of whether to change early, I ran my 2010 TDI CR 10k each time (including the factory fill) and did UOA after each change and was advised it could go longer. Was recommended to go to 12 k and compare, I never felt comfortable going that far but it was obvious it could. Also my oil was black on my 2010 after 200 miles or less. The way the oil holds soot in suspension, it is actually a sign that it is working properly and not a problem.

skinnyb said:

Answering your original question it is recommended to change the plug each time. I however have been known to reuse at least once without issue.

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The drain plug with the steel washer can be used over and over and over again. It does not need to be replaced unless the steel washer starts to leak. If it leaks you can cut it off and replace the washer or replace the entire plug.

If clean oil is what you want, consider installing one of the bypass oil filters which supplement the full flow filter installed. They have proven effective in keeping your oil clean much longer. You would propably need to get the ok of VW that it wouldnt invalidate the warranty. good luck

de3de88 said:

I hear you and have read that the initial oil fill from the factory is "special" and is formulated to provide for proper break-in over 10k. I can accept that premise but find it hard to accept that the initial fill is some special formulation. Accepting the initial fill stays in for 10k don't understand how it can be detrimental to have fresh oil without contaminates etal. The dealer mechanic/shop mgr who told me he was factory certified and highest rated agreed with my premise that interium changes would be good fo the motor.

BTW, I have several diesels including the T444 PSD and that oil stays quite clean for several thousand miles. Same for my commercial equipment. I change all those more often than factory recommended intervals and all including oldest stuff is still going strong without ANY motor issues.

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I really appreciate when newbies come on here and have not spent HOURS reading all the forums, worse yet to challenge us when we answer their questions, but the answers are not what they want to hear.

Please learn to trust the VW engineers. That initial oil and the 10K interval (used to be 5k on the older cars) is exactly what they designed it to do. There are so many variables you cannot know. There may be some additive that impacts say a silicon gasket and they need to let it "cure" or "age" before more of that additive comes in contact.

Just total supposition, but there are cases where premature oil changes do more harm than good.

By the way VW Diesel engines are a completely different class and beast than a FORD T444 PSD. Comparing the two anymore than they are both diesels would be incorrect.

OP, you might want to read this post (you can also read the whole thread for more info). http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2340534&postcount=27

These cars use high-tech long life synthetic oils. These are not your father's oils or your father's engines. These engines go much farther than 10k miles between oil changes in Europe. Trust VW on this one.

Have Fun!

Don

JSWTDI09 said:

OP, you might want to read this post (you can also read the whole thread for more info). http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2340534&postcount=27

These cars use high-tech long life synthetic oils. These are not your father's oils or your father's engines. These engines go much farther than 10k miles between oil changes in Europe. Trust VW on this one.

Have Fun!

Don

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OP does not want to listen to experience of hundreds of knowledgeable CR owners...wants to feel good about wasting his money and the environment....so I say....his loss.

Gosh- Jumpin all over the OP for wanting to do an early first change? Ease up.

Whether to do it early or not is no big deal. The oil gets recycled unless you dump it in a ditch.

If I had a new car, I'd probably change early too. Maybe it makes me feel better with no sound technical basis. That's ok.

To the OP- You can re-use the plug seal numerous times. I've replaced my seal once in 17 oil changes. Just clean up sealing surfaces, don't overtorque and check for leaks once sump is filled.

Considering my age which I wont disclose, and the number of vehicles and pieces of equipment (spark and compresssion) I have owned over the years and no issues with failures in any due to good maintenance I asked the question on the NEW TDI because of piezo injectors/adblue/emmissions equipment etc. and specs the 507 oil. I also realize more than you may think that diesels vary in design/sophistication/technology but all operate under the same principals. That being said I am suitably humbled especially by the ones above who want to make sure they make their "superior itelliect" known via the"newbie" remarks. I guess the master VW tech I discussed this with is a newbie too. To the others I do appreciate the advice/information, as I thought that was the reason for a forum.

de3de88 said:

Considering my age which I wont disclose, and the number of vehicles and pieces of equipment (spark and compresssion) I have owned over the years and no issues with failures in any due to good maintenance I asked the question on the NEW TDI because of piezo injectors/adblue/emissions equipment etc. and specs the 507 oil....

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It has no connection to your oil change question, but just FYI - Your 2012 Passat does not have piezo injectors. Jettas and Golfs have piezo injectors, but the Passat's CKRA engine has solenoid injectors. I do not know why VW changed this, but they did. Just a minor correction.

Have Fun!

Don

de3de88 said:

Considering my age which I wont disclose, and the number of vehicles and pieces of equipment (spark and compresssion) I have owned over the years and no issues with failures in any due to good maintenance I asked the question on the NEW TDI because of piezo injectors/adblue/emmissions equipment etc. and specs the 507 oil. I also realize more than you may think that diesels vary in design/sophistication/technology but all operate under the same principals. That being said I am suitably humbled especially by the ones above who want to make sure they make their "superior itelliect" known via the"newbie" remarks. I guess the master VW tech I discussed this with is a newbie too. To the others I do appreciate the advice/information, as I thought that was the reason for a forum.

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Yep, you sure know how to win people over and get them to help you out.
Good Luck!

Do whatever you want and you will find out the hard way to follow the oil guidelines to a T. Just do a search on 505.01 5w30 versus 5w40 and camshaft failures on PD engines.

I guess since you have had so many diesels you will be adding the quart of automatic transmission fluid to the tank too since that is what they used to do in the old Ford diesels. I would love to see what that old wisdom would do to this engine.

TomB said:

Yep, you sure know how to win people over and get them to help you out.
Good Luck!

Do whatever you want and you will find out the hard way to follow the oil guidelines to a T. Just do a search on 505.01 5w30 versus 5w40 and camshaft failures on PD engines.

I guess since you have had so many diesels you will be adding the quart of automatic transmission fluid to the tank too since that is what they used to do in the old Ford diesels. I would love to see what that old wisdom would do to this engine.

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Wow! you can read minds too! What a sage.

JSWTDI09 said:

It has no connection to your oil change question, but just FYI - Your 2012 Passat does not have piezo injectors. Jettas and Golfs have piezo injectors, but the Passat's CKRA engine has solenoid injectors. I do not know why VW changed this, but they did. Just a minor correction.

Have Fun!

Don

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Thanks for that correction, interesting in that I would think that piezo would be higher tech, but possibly not needed with adblue system and hopefully equates to reliability.

de3de88 said:

Found sources for filters, oil, adblue and ready to do my own changes as do not like the thought of going 10k between changes on 5 qts of oil. Mine was black after 1200miles. To my question, on this new engine, does anyone know with certainty whether the drain plug washer is reusable or needs to be changed each time. From what I can tell from my research the answers are all over the map. Again, specific to 2012 TDI motor.

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The oil on most TDI cars is black immediately after changing. Don't sweat it man. Follow the 10k intervals. Drive it, worry less.

We are still waiting on in-depth background on the solenoid/piezo change. As for the break-in oil, it's my understanding it accelerates component conditioning... meaning early OCIs with standard 507 is not recommended, but also not harmful. With below zero winter temps coming to an engine block near you, my preference is to let the factory fill do its thing.

Geez guys/gals cut the newbie a break. He did find the right forum at least. While some of the members here may be less than cordial their knowledge is great. Some get frustrated by seeing similar threads over and over. The search function does work very well though and so it is generally expected new users will search to see if the question was asked/answered before posting. The oil and related matters have been beaten to death on these forums and others so don't feel like its all directed toward you.

Drive more and worry less. Follow the factory recommended intervals unless there are other conditions you feel would require you change more often. If the ladder is the case, then I would suggest you get some used oil analysis done to determine the proper change interval for your operating conditions.

I just picked up my 12 TDI SE Passat last night. Welcome to the club.

de3de88 said:

Wow! you can read minds too! What a sage.

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Nope, just been around long enough to read people well from their comments and reactions or should we say over-reactions as well.


Seriously, seen this before. "Veterans" of the old Ford diesels or cummins come on here and dismiss the help and wisdom we suggest only to then be back on here 6 months, 1 year or two years later complaining how VW builds crap because component x failed, even though they used the old Turbo diesel oil that they used for "years" before.

Again, trust what we say. Stop thinking Ford and accept that VW is totally different beast.

Solenoid technology was used to save cost. However, the injectors in the CKRA engine are the very latest solenoid technology and are comparable to piezo units. They use a pressure compensated flow control valve. See the last page.

http://www.boschdieselcenter.com.au/mam/boaa/master/docs/artikel_meilensteine-der-cre_eng.pdf

and formerly posted by bhtooefr: http://www.mtz-worldwide.com/index.php?mode=textansicht&articleKey=mtzw-009-0357-9&issueKey=2&volumeKey=2010&smart42SID=n1src9jtuc9ag5ktflo3jgnlt1&smart42SID=n1src9jtuc9ag5ktflo3jgnlt1

10k Oil Changes

You need to trust VW engineering...in the UK, I have a Vauxhall Insignia, which is a Buick Regal TDI w/better handling & suspension (I rented one in the US and it was soft and squidgy in comparison), and it has 20k oil changes! (although it also has a built in oil life monitor, and I had to change it at 17k first time around...I tend to drive it hard)

TomB said:

Nope, just been around long enough to read people well from their comments and reactions or should we say over-reactions as well.


Seriously, seen this before. "Veterans" of the old Ford diesels or cummins come on here and dismiss the help and wisdom we suggest only to then be back on here 6 months, 1 year or two years later complaining how VW builds crap because component x failed, even though they used the old Turbo diesel oil that they used for "years" before.

Again, trust what we say. Stop thinking Ford and accept that VW is totally different beast.

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Just so you know, Ford & GM know how to do the same TDI engines as VW, Audi, BMW - every car they offer in Europe comes with a TDI engine option...they just choose not to bring them to the USA for economic reasons...

This is the exact reason that BMW now seals the final drive on their motorcycles. People weren't trusting the engineering/fluids in question to their over-engineered, under-stressed rear end and customers were over thinking the maintenance.
As a result, many final drives of expensive BMW motorcycles were failing and in some cases lighting on fire (causing many "sky is falling" internet sensations im sure are common on German engineered vehicles....).
So nowadays, BMW just says that no maintenance is required in hopes the people will just leave them alone to last as they were intended.


In regard to your age and experience you have to know and probably understand that some things that were once commonplace such as "warming up a car" are now simply moot as a direct result of modern metallurgy and oils. Therefore, 3k oil changes are simply a thing of the past unless you are only doing stop and go or perhaps racing.
10k oil changes are now fairly common in the motorcycle community and these are bikes that are reaching 150k to 200k, stock.
If a motorcycle can go 10k between oil changes....

just remeber this the guys with engineering degrees in chemistry know nothing and there is no way oil can be good for longer than 2k miles. the mechanical engineer (or large team of them) that designed the engine are idiots that know nothing of particulate count, flow rates, bearing wear or BT life hours. change that oil every 2-3k and protecte that engine. i would recomend rotella t since it worked so good in the old 7.3 idi engines.

(eprater1: maybe your tranny failed because you didn't get the latest version...your DSD was superceded by the DSG...)...now go get that oil changed in your new Passat. It's been sitting in your crankcase too long...

eprater1 said:

just remeber this the guys with engineering degrees in chemistry know nothing and there is no way oil can be good for longer than 2k miles.

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so you are saying that there is no oil that is any good beyond 2k miles of use?

.....hmmm

I call troll

I call sarcasm...

lol it def was sarcasm. guess eatpasta isnt familiar with my petigree. eh its cool cant be up to date on all members. in all fairness though i have been guilty of baiting people into "verbal banters" in the past but i always try and keep it factual and civil. pasta
i know a buch of guys running bypass filters and getting upwards of 30k before changing. (this is on superduties and cummins not VW)


"eprater1: maybe your tranny failed because you didn't get the latest version...your DSD was superceded by the DSG." - does make me wonder if an update could have prevented the mechatronic from failing.

Just follow the directions newbies... if you do... and sh*t happens... lawyer up. If you don't... and sh*t happens... someone should slap you. (sarcasm should be duly noted here...!)

I am a newb who owns a Dodge Cummins and I am still trying to get over the fact that the TDI has glow plugs? You want to cause an uproar ask the Cummins guys how to replace the glow plugs.