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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old March 31st, 2012, 13:03   #46
wxman
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I submitted comments on what was then proposed LEV III regulations back in January. I noticed CARB finally responded to the comments - http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog...acc_ea_rtc.pdf. My comments start on page 11 of 168 of that pdf file, and the response is on page 16 of 168.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but my point was that since CARB is MANDATING that AT LEAST 1 in 7 cars sold in California are REQUIRED to be "ZEV", i.e., electric vehicles under the regulation, the PM emissions from a "well-to-wheels" perspective are actually HIGHER with its mandated ZEVs in California than a 2003 Jetta TDI, which has effectively been banned since 2004. Now CARB is proposing to reduce PM emissions under LEV III to 1 mg/mile by 2025 (down from 10 mg/mile under LEV II). Requiring non-EV emissions to be cut by an order-of-magnitude under LEV III yet REQUIRING over 15% of cars be EV, which has WTW PM emissions that are HIGHER than a 2003 Jetta TDI, not only would be superfluous, but would potentially raise the amount of PM produced in California from the light-duty fleet through at least 2020 to pre-2004 levels.

The response only addresses how loads on electric generation will be managed as more EVs are added to the mix. What does that have to do with more WTW PM produced by the EVs? It still appears that the EV mandate will more than offset the mandated reduction in PM from conventional vehicles under LEV III. Seems like a non-response to me. Am I missing something?
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Old April 4th, 2012, 14:25   #47
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Missing nothing, since CARB's goal is to get everyone on either public transpo or EV. It's clear that's their 'Final Solution', so they are going to do whatever they need to do, above board, under board, or otherwise, to make that happen.

That a ton of people are going to be forced into way less efficient gas cars, or much more expensive EV cars, CARB doesn't give a sh1t about. They care only about what they want to accomplish.

This is exactly why CARB shouldn't be setting emissions guidelines for the entire US, which is effectively what they are doing (regulating a national product, something a state should never be doing).

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Old October 16th, 2012, 23:15   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boertje View Post
Many people miss the point. Logic has nothing to do with California.
Welcome to the Granola State - the land of fruits, nuts, and flakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjclow View Post
My first time in Pittsburgh (1975), the moon rose almost blood red due to all the iron ore in the air. Now the mills are all gone and most of the structural steel production has moved overseas.
Quite some time ago (I believe it was late '70s/early '80s), MAD magazine did a series of updated nursery rhymes. One that sticks in my mind is "Little Jack Horner now stands on the corner and begs for a small contribution. They had to shut down the big steel mill in town, but at least there's a lot less pollution."

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But rest assured, while the greenies in CA push crazy laws that will try and be forced down the throats of the entire country, US Constitution be damned,
Actually, I've got a somewhat lower opinion of the orifice they're trying to force their laws into.

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Missing nothing, since CARB's goal is to get everyone on either public transpo or EV. It's clear that's their 'Final Solution',
I'm going to invoke Godwin's Law on this one - a certain European government from the mid 20th century would be offended by this comparison to CARB.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 23:48   #49
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Something to keep in mind is that as solar grows to be more popular and it has with stead growth over the last 10 years, the price of panels and other equipment will drop and become more fricient. Groups like solar city and vivint solar have made solar possible for your average joeschmo and will greatly increase implementation. I would guess that if companies such as those continue on their current path 10-12% of homes will be powered directly by solar within 5 years. I am not saying it will be sufficient to power all of America, but renewables are on the way up and home efficientcy is improving at a killer rate. (LED televisions, lighting, and higher efficientcy large appliances) I think as more of these new technologies become steadily availible and affordable we will see electric cars/hybrids play a larger role, however right now it's a giant crock of BS to have it forced on us. I believe very purely in letting the market drive demand. It's getting pretty nice out there for us in terms of efficiency. The tdi is no longer our only option for a fun fuel efficient vehicle. Even better is the big 3 leading the way with the Cruze and sonic from GM, the fiesta and focus from ford and the dodge Dart. Even small SUVs(Terrain, CX5, Rogue, etc) are touching the low 30s now. They are mostly gutless wonders, but I am happy to see the market dictating thing instead of stupid government regulation and such. I would think with these changes the demand for fuel would drop, but instead it is just shifting to China to be used to power diesel generators at the many factories. The biggest changes needed are in developing countries, like china, India, and brazil. The US will produce fewer emmisions per capita than many very very soon. Mark my words. The writing is on the wall.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 07:09   #50
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CARB has just put several out of work in Oroville and nearby Paradise, by forcing a building supply company to close their stores in the two cities after 30+ and 50+ years respectively. While the stores were under pressure due to the poor construction economy, the straw that broke the camel's back was CARB ordering the company to retro-fit their trucks with new diesel technology at about $30,000 per truck, or close to $500,000 total.
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Old October 19th, 2012, 13:46   #51
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Something to keep in mind is that as solar grows to be more popular and it has with stead growth over the last 10 years, the price of panels and other equipment will drop and become more fricient. Groups like solar city and vivint solar have made solar possible for your average joeschmo and will greatly increase implementation. I would guess that if companies such as those continue on their current path 10-12% of homes will be powered directly by solar within 5 years. I am not saying it will be sufficient to power all of America, but renewables are on the way up and home efficientcy is improving at a killer rate. (LED televisions, lighting, and higher efficientcy large appliances) I think as more of these new technologies become steadily availible and affordable we will see electric cars/hybrids play a larger role, however right now it's a giant crock of BS to have it forced on us. I believe very purely in letting the market drive demand. It's getting pretty nice out there for us in terms of efficiency. The tdi is no longer our only option for a fun fuel efficient vehicle. Even better is the big 3 leading the way with the Cruze and sonic from GM, the fiesta and focus from ford and the dodge Dart. Even small SUVs(Terrain, CX5, Rogue, etc) are touching the low 30s now. They are mostly gutless wonders, but I am happy to see the market dictating thing instead of stupid government regulation and such. I would think with these changes the demand for fuel would drop, but instead it is just shifting to China to be used to power diesel generators at the many factories. The biggest changes needed are in developing countries, like china, India, and brazil. The US will produce fewer emmisions per capita than many very very soon. Mark my words. The writing is on the wall.
I have to disagree. The ONLY thing that really keeps solar going is government grants and subsidies. Without that the hardware is simply not economically viable. Even with it it can take 1-2 decades simply to break even on your investment. No, IMO, solar won't really make that much of an impact until and unless additional significant improvements are made to the collectors reducing their watt/$ ratio and incorporating them literally into the structure of the home be it as roofing or siding. So I doubt you will see 10% of homes solar powered before 2050 unless some of the R&D pans out and these vaporware products being proposed actually make it to market in a cheap effective form.
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Old October 19th, 2012, 14:50   #52
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The largest problem with solar today is that the best commercially available collectors are just over 50% efficient. To supply the needs of Canada, you need a collector roughly the size of Manitoba.

They are working on making them more efficient and supposedly ones that are no thicker than a shingle so they will be more effective for the average homeowner, but that takes time for testing, and time for them to comedown enough in price so the average home owner an afford them.
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Old October 20th, 2012, 21:24   #53
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CARB has just put several out of work in Oroville and nearby Paradise, by forcing a building supply company to close their stores in the two cities after 30+ and 50+ years respectively. While the stores were under pressure due to the poor construction economy, the straw that broke the camel's back was CARB ordering the company to retro-fit their trucks with new diesel technology at about $30,000 per truck, or close to $500,000 total.
...and now the idiocy continues. They are now drafting new regulations for mobile Ag equipment as in tractors and such. Retrofit or junked, and the cost to a fragile Ag economy that cant handle anymore blows continues unabated. I just sold a dairy farm in Wheatland CA due to the heavy reg burden and only red ink in the last 4 years to show for all the work. Heck, the dairy business is so bad in CA that even my cows moved to Idaho (no joke, they are now in Twin falls...all 700 of them).
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Old October 25th, 2012, 21:38   #54
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I have to disagree. The ONLY thing that really keeps solar going is government grants and subsidies. Without that the hardware is simply not economically viable. Even with it it can take 1-2 decades simply to break even on your investment. No, IMO, solar won't really make that much of an impact until and unless additional significant improvements are made to the collectors reducing their watt/$ ratio and incorporating them literally into the structure of the home be it as roofing or siding. So I doubt you will see 10% of homes solar powered before 2050 unless some of the R&D pans out and these vaporware products being proposed actually make it to market in a cheap effective form.
It's really important to understand how quickly solar city and vivint are growing. It has reached a point now that they are installing close to 100 homes a day with systems large enough to more than support the home and then some. Vivint is only 2 years in with tons of room to grow. Solar city is also growing more quickly now, although they are several years old. This method that they use is very disruptive to the current market, because the customer fronts nothing on the system and they pay a constant rate to their new power provider(vivint, solar city, etc) at a guaranteed reduced rate. The company also keeps tax incentives/rebates and any extra power pay back from the local utility. This increase in solar production in turn lowers the cost to produce the panels as they become more common. Much like the price of electronics dropping as the technology improves and becomes cheaper. The more it is used the cheaper the tech gets and the more it improves. We are not there just yet, but give it ten years. We are going to see major changes if these companies open in markets like Arizona, florida, and Texas.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 22:14   #55
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Old October 26th, 2012, 06:27   #56
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lmao!
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Old October 26th, 2012, 07:16   #57
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Re an earlier post about CARB's new assault on the agricultural sector of the CPR economy, there was an article in my local paper today about it. Seems that it was originally to be limited to Federal non-attainment areas down in the San Joaquin Valley, but CARB decided to attack ALL of California agriculture. One local farmer here said it would cost him almost $600,000 to replace his perfectly good diesel tractors; due to the boom/bust cycle of farming, there are years when he can't afford to replace one tractor even if needed.

Kill CARB!
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Old October 26th, 2012, 09:27   #58
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Re an earlier post about CARB's new assault on the agricultural sector of the CPR economy, there was an article in my local paper today about it. Seems that it was originally to be limited to Federal non-attainment areas down in the San Joaquin Valley, but CARB decided to attack ALL of California agriculture. One local farmer here said it would cost him almost $600,000 to replace his perfectly good diesel tractors; due to the boom/bust cycle of farming, there are years when he can't afford to replace one tractor even if needed.

Kill CARB!

heck, there are farmers in the midwest that probably can't afford to replace tires on a tractor after their miserable crop year!
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Old October 26th, 2012, 09:43   #59
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The same applies here in the CPR but the CARB drones don't care.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 20:42   #60
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I'm so glad I don't live in this state anymore although I still have to do business here.
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