More dealership sneakiness?

I activated my two cards today and got an oil change and inspection done. After waiting roughly an hour, I was checking out and ready to pay when the advisor said my tires were nearly worn out 5/32(only at 28,000 miles?) and my brake fluid was turning yellow, and next service I need to get it flushed.

I will say, I trust this dealer 100%, I've been a customer forever and they know that, and know me very well, they've treated me very well in sales and in service. This service advisor is a bit...blonde though, he's a temporary replacement for one on vacation and is new. I "tested" him to see when my TB interval was, and he at first said it was a timing chain. I couldn't help but laugh inside my head, but played stupid and said "Oh really? I didn't know that!". But he changed his mind, looked it up, and said it was every 100,000 kilometers(a bit early, no?).

Lastly, he recommended a BG Induction service for next service, where they run a fuel cleaner and it cleans the fuel system. I think its total BS and is just a money grab for the technician and service dept.

So, it would cost about $350 for the brake fluid flush and the Induction service. I'm guessing I should skip it, and do the fluid flush myself? Just wanting advice.

My dealer REALLY insisted that my 2014 needed a brake fluid replacement at 30k. I argued that's not what the manual says. He showed me some printout from their service department, so it MUST be true. I didn't take the car back.

whats the worst that will happen if the fluid isnt changed? the boiling point lowers a few degrees?

I know in the dirtbike world, the boiling point lowers a bit and you get a tiny bit of brake fade. minor detail if youre a hardcore racer. insignificant if youre a normal rider. my bikes fluid is 10 years old... its blackish brown. still stops the bike just fine!

Brake fluid flush is every 30,000 miles or two years. There's a maintenance schedule sticky at the top of the TDI 101 page with this info. The other service sounds like a way for your dealer to rip you off.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/516/2013_Jetta_TDI.pdf

If you let it go super long, on the order of 10 years, you can get rust in the brake system from the water content in the fluid. With normal mileage I think 2 year intervals is a bit much personally though.

Brake flushes are great money. Especially on GM products, because they always seem to tear the master cylinder seals when operated past their normal pedal travel.

To the end user? Flush it if it needs repair (a hose is cracked or a caliper seizes/leaks) leave it alone otherwise.

gatz said:

If you let it go super long, on the order of 10 years, you can get rust in the brake system from the water content in the fluid. With normal mileage I think 2 year intervals is a bit much personally though.

Click to expand...

I do realize the dangers of not doing brake fluid changes but my sisters 2006 Jetta with 330,000 miles has fluid when it was replaced at 50k, and it's still clear fluid. No brown at all.

In all my automotive years I've never replaced brake fluid, or even seen it done or had a service record of it being done. On any car I've owned, worked on or been around, ever....

Just my two cents... and $350 for the brake fluid replacement in insanity.

keaton85 said:

In all my automotive years I've never replaced brake fluid, or even seen it done or had a service record of it being done. On any car I've owned, worked on or been around, ever....

Just my two cents... and $350 for the brake fluid replacement in insanity.

Click to expand...

Must be a coincidence as I have been driving for 50+ years and have had 30+ cars, not a one has ever had the brake fluid changed. When I had to replace a master cylinder on a car, I did bleed the whole system at that time.

Save your $350 to put toward new tires.

Also as to the point of the fluid being yellow... yea, it is amber fresh out of the can. That really makes me wonder if hes trying to take you for a ride. Years ago there was ATE super blue, which they banned sale of in the US. Apparently there are DOT regulations stating that you cannot sell dyed brake fluid.

Induction system cleaning is total nonsense. Changing the brake fluid at 30K miles or every 2 years is a VG idea. Brake fluid is hydroscopic meaning it absorbs water from the air. I'm amazed that more manufacturers don't recommend brake fluid replacement.

Ol'Rattler said:

Induction system cleaning is total nonsense. Changing the brake fluid at 30K miles or every 2 years is a VG idea. Brake fluid is hydroscopic meaning it absorbs water from the air. I'm amazed that more manufacturers don't recommend brake fluid replacement.

Click to expand...

Apologies in advance for the correction.
Hygroscopic - Wikipedia
Hygroscopy (etymology and pronunciation) is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy
Water in the fluid does cause corrosion in the brake system - caliper, master, lines, etc. Also, the ABS body/valves are also susceptible to water damage. I've had to replace parts - calipers and master - pitted and damaged by water in the fluid.

As noted, water changes the boiling point of the fluid, and once the water boils, that steam is compressible, and the pedal goes to the floor. I remember stories of cars in stop-and-go traffic for a long time having the brake go to the floor, and causing a rear-ender.
Never change fluid? You save your money, and you take your chances.
frank

fxk said:

I remember stories of cars in stop-and-go traffic for a long time having the brake go to the floor, and causing a rear-ender.

Click to expand...

Not an instant thing, you'll notice a low pedal before it's gone, and it'll go away as you let it cool.

If you hit someone from boiling brake fluid in a modern car you've gotta be real occupied with your phone, newspaper, coffee, makeup, electric shaver, ear and nose hair trimmer, radio, playstation, (etc) while on your stop and go 140 mph commute.

Okay so what I'm taking away is that I should replace the brake fluid, but not NEARLY as often as VW says I should, so what like is 5 years a good replacement time?

fxk said:

Apologies in advance for the correction.
Hygroscopic - Wikipedia
Hygroscopy (etymology and pronunciation) is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy
Water in the fluid does cause corrosion in the brake system - caliper, master, lines, etc. Also, the ABS body/valves are also susceptible to water damage. I've had to replace parts - calipers and master - pitted and damaged by water in the fluid.

As noted, water changes the boiling point of the fluid, and once the water boils, that steam is compressible, and the pedal goes to the floor. I remember stories of cars in stop-and-go traffic for a long time having the brake go to the floor, and causing a rear-ender.
Never change fluid? You save your money, and you take your chances.
frank

Click to expand...

Thanx for the correction. At least you understood what I was alluding to.

On a modern car, there are a ton of stupid expensive components that will last a lot longer with having the brake fluid replaced every couple of years.

buyingconstant7 said:

Okay so what I'm taking away is that I should replace the brake fluid, but not NEARLY as often as VW says I should, so what like is 5 years a good replacement time?

Click to expand...

Do as you wish. Never replace the fluid if that is your inclination until you have a brake system failure.

VW's recommendation is there for a reason. Follow it and your brake system will last as long as possible. If you don't follow the recommendation, you will be replacing some stupid expensive brake system parts prematurely.

I realize that most car makers don't recommend replacing brake fluid, but they really should. I think that most manufactures intent is once the lame ass warranty is done, you can just go eff yourself.

keaton85 said:

In all my automotive years I've never replaced brake fluid, or even seen it done or had a service record of it being done. On any car I've owned, worked on or been around, ever....

Click to expand...

Same here. I've never done it, and I've never seen or heard of anybody else ever doing it my entire life. I've also never heard of a braking component failing due to old brake fluid, ever...

The only time brake fluid ever gets touched around here is after 10-15 years when/if a caliper needs to be replaced.

Rembrant said:

Same here. I've never done it, and I've never seen or heard of anybody else ever doing it my entire life. I've also never heard of a braking component failing due to old brake fluid, ever...

The only time brake fluid ever gets touched around here is after 10-15 years when/if a caliper needs to be replaced.

Click to expand...

good chance that is why the caliper had to be replaced.

Ol'Rattler said:

Induction system cleaning is total nonsense. Changing the brake fluid at 30K miles or every 2 years is a VG idea. Brake fluid is hydroscopic meaning it absorbs water from the air. I'm amazed that more manufacturers don't recommend brake fluid replacement.

Click to expand...

fxk said:

Apologies in advance for the correction.
Hygroscopic - Wikipedia
Hygroscopy (etymology and pronunciation) is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy
Water in the fluid does cause corrosion in the brake system - caliper, master, lines, etc. Also, the ABS body/valves are also susceptible to water damage. I've had to replace parts - calipers and master - pitted and damaged by water in the fluid.

As noted, water changes the boiling point of the fluid, and once the water boils, that steam is compressible, and the pedal goes to the floor. I remember stories of cars in stop-and-go traffic for a long time having the brake go to the floor, and causing a rear-ender.
Never change fluid? You save your money, and you take your chances.
frank

Click to expand...

Ol'Rattler said:

Thanx for the correction. At least you understood what I was alluding to.

On a modern car, there are a ton of stupid expensive components that will last a lot longer with having the brake fluid replaced every couple of years.

Click to expand...

^ this is true

Hello,

Let me say that I'm not advocating that the brake fluid flush be skipped. I only argued that the dealer had the interval all wrong.

Jedadiah said:

Brake fluid flush is every 30,000 miles or two years. There's a maintenance schedule sticky at the top of the TDI 101 page with this info. http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/516/2013_Jetta_TDI.pdf

Click to expand...

You and my dealer must've done the same thing: Looked more at the graphic than read the text. The graphic is just a placeholder to get the owner's attention, probably developed with the assumption of 10,000 miles driver per year. The text specifically says:

Brake fluid and clutch unit: Change fluid (Every 3 years regardless of mileage and every 2 years after)

Click to expand...

The "regardless of mileage" tells me that the first service is NOT due at 30,000 miles, but when the car is three years old. Why is the original fluid is good for three years and the rest is good for only two is a mystery to me.

I may do a flush at two years, as was my practice with my Mk3. The car will have 50,000 miles by then. It won't hurt a thing to do the first one early, then every two years thereafter.

Scott

I had my Brake Fluid changed at 300,000 km (after about 10 years or so).

TDI smile said:

I had my Brake Fluid changed at 300,000 km (after about 10 years or so).

Click to expand...

you've probably changed at least some of lt before then... when bleeding your brakes during brake jobs.

maxmoo said:

good chance that is why the caliper had to be replaced.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but I've not personally seen a caliper fail from the inside out. The problem with them here is that they rust from the outside in. Either the rust works its way past the rubber boot/seal, or the boot rots and rips, etc. I'd say 90% of the time, calipers get stuck on the sliders, and people leave 'em until they seize.

I'm not saying that old brake fluid doesn't cause problems...I'm just saying that I've never seen it personally, or heard of it. It's just been my experience that brake components will fail due to old age or dry-rot before old brake fluid harms them.

Since there not selling too many cars, they may be getting aggressive with the maintenance

VW dealers are hurting, no doubt.

The brake fluid on my Mk6 was changed at 30k under the free maintenance that came with car, it was not even two years old at that point.

The fuel induction services are one of the biggest wastes of money/scams the dealers have going. I hope my dealer, who I happen to like, never offers this to me.

Even my Volt, which uses mainly regenerative braking to slow down, has a scheduled changing of the brake fluid at 150,000 miles or 10 years. Cheap insurance.

Another good thing about changing brake fluid at two or three year intervals is that it may help prevent the bleeder screw from seizing, thus saving the caliper. I left my OEM brake fluid in too long which cost me a rear caliper due to the bleeder screw threads coming out.

I'm following the intervals stated in the manual which have been stated above by Stealth. Every two years, after the first three years, regardless of miles. I'm also a fan of the power bleeders (~$50 investment) because I have had to replace a master cylinder due to bleeding by pumping the brakes the old school way. This was on a '96 Mazda, but the power bleeder is just far simpler anyway! Fluid should not cost more than $30 and the procedure with a bleeder that the dealer certainly has will not take more than an hour. I would think $150 is more a fair price from a dealer anyway.

Also, this interval is nothing new. My 1998 Jetta maintenance manual called for the same interval.

Not arguing one way or another but the brake system is sealed, no?

The MC cover has a bellows type of thing that extends as the fluid moves into the cylinders and retracts when the fluid is pushed back into the master when the pads are changed.

How does the water get in?