Upcoming Release of 2015 TDI's from Stop Order

Yes we don't know the exact date but it will be soon.

That being said some are putting down deposits on back lot TDI's in anticipation of purchase. However some people are being asinine in telling the sales people that they don't care what the price is they will pay sticker on a 2 year old new car. If people keep doing this there will be no discount on the ones that have been sitting there.


Quit calling dealerships and spouting this tomfoolery.

I inquired at a few dealerships about the '15s, and every one I talked to said all the cars were already spoken for ...

Money talks and honeybadger don't give a sh......!

You could always keep your 2015 Jetta instead of selling it back.

I would really like a GSW honestly. But if people are going to pay full retail then I don't see that happening. Oh well, may rethink which one gets the sell back now.

Key question - will these be sold w fix already applied ? If sales are imminent, then there wont be a fix (none has been approved yet) and you'd get ~6K at your second visit to install the fix.

If there's no fix, then you will probably make of like a bandit with buyback $$$.

I don't care if the car's a diesel, I don't care whether it has warp drive powered by dilithium crystals. I don't pay sticker, never have, never will. "Others may do as they please."

And definitely not on a car that sat in the lot for a year+.

But this is a good omen for rest of us - means there's a very, very strong demand for VW diesels, ppl seem to be almost frantic in desire to scoop up whatever is still out there, with VW jehes indicating they are getting out of diesels.

r11 said:

Key question - will these be sold w fix already applied ? If sales are imminent, then there wont be a fix (none has been approved yet) and you'd get ~6K at your second visit to install the fix.

If there's no fix, then you will probably make of like a bandit with buyback $$$.

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They will not be allowed to be sold without a fix in place. As of today, there is no fix so none of these cars are going anywhere. It's not hard to conceive that these cars may be able to be "fixed" but I have a hard time believing anyone is going to put money down on a car (at least this kind of money) having no idea what they are getting yet.

People were paying OVER MSRP in California years back for "used" TDIs.

People will pay what they will pay, and if it is "banned", then clearly people will likely pay more for it. If it was banned in the first place, it probably means it is forbidden fruit. Look at the sales of Chinabright headlamps on eBay. DOT says no more than 55w for halogen bulbs. Doesn't stop anyone.

When you make rules that a substantially chunk of the populace doesn't like, guess what? The rules get broken.

My brother is a plumber. You should see what profit he makes from selling used toilets. The old pre-low flow designs. The turd punishers made back in the '40s and '50s, when people really knew how to crap and they really knew how to make toilets to deal with it.

He rehabs old houses in the city, but because of some inspection rule with HUD inspections they HAVE to put "modern" toilets in. To he stockpiles the old ones, then waits for the new owners to call and complain about the clogging toilets, then sells them the old ones back.

One of the dealers i talked to is taking 10% down on all their tdis. Crazy. All said that as soon as fix is approved then 15s will get 1st stage then can be sold. 2nd stage next year some time. Same info we have seen.

The dealer we get parts from already has all of their spoken for too. And there is a line of several people for a few of the cars. Not sure what the final sales amounts will be though.

If MB doesn't build my Sprinter soon I may just look into a '15 TDI myself.

Law of Supply and Demand...

If you look at the polls on this site, at least a quarter of TDI owners want to stick with the TDI, and there's probably at least a million TDI owners in the U.S.. So we've got 250,000 of us looking to buy another TDI someday, and maybe a 90 day supply of 25,000 TDIs stuck in inventory. If no more TDIs appear to be coming, with just one TDI for every 10 customers those new TDIs will easily sell at MSRP.

But if there's a fix and the same poll tells us that two thirds want to take the buyout option, the market will be flooded with 250,000 or so used TDIs if VW decides to fix them all and put them on the market. That'll saturate the market and drive TDI prices down. And once VW brings in new TDIs, there's no reason for any buyers paying MSRP for stored 2015s.

So if VW was clever, they'd hold off on bringing in new TDIs until they've profitably sold off all the embargoed 2015s on dealer lots and at least all the turned in TDIs that could be sold as CPOs, and they'd trickle those onto the market to avoid glutting it. So maybe we'd see new TDIs arrive again as 2018s or 2019s... Wouldn't be the first time VW sat out of the diesel car market for a couple years.

But since when was VW smart?

I have a deposit on one.
Stipulations:
*Agreeble price, MSRP is 26ish. 16's were selling for almost 25% off, I expect that or more.
*Fix: for me, no less than 10% loss in economy
*Warranty: extended or maintenance included
*Replace: tires, rotors, all fluids and battery from sitting. The car I am interested, hasn't moved the whole time.

Philpug said:

I have a deposit on one.
Stipulations:
*Agreeble price, MSRP is 26ish. 16's were selling for almost 25% off, I expect that or more.
*Fix: for me, no less than 10% loss in economy
*Warranty: extended or maintenance included
*Replace: tires, rotors, all fluids and battery from sitting. The car I am interested, hasn't moved the whole time.

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I bet there are a lot of people in your boat. That's going to be the other issue for the dealers. Sure...people put deposits on many of the remaining '15's, but how many of those people are going to take their money and walk when the dealer says "the price is MSRP" or better?

At the end of the day...we're talking a two year old car (as far as insurance and financing company are concerned). You pay $26k for that car a wreck it the following week, I can see the insurance company giving you ~$16k for it.

According to a recent jalopinic article, VW will not bring diesel back to the USA...
Came out this AM...
The the 2015 is it...last chance.

Has anyone considered a used 328 diesel wagon? AWD and better mileage, just curious what the price is for a used 2015 BMW vs the JSW.

ZippyNH said:

According to a recent jalopinic article, VW will not bring diesel back to the USA...
Came out this AM...
The the 2015 is it...last chance.

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That actually makes the decision easier for me then. Won't feel like I am missing out going back to a gasser.

I wouldnt call it last chance. If you already have one...just keep it. Easy peasy. If you dont, buy one. Also, keep in mind, jalopnik has been producing a flurry of anti diesel articles of late. Perhaps for a reason?

mrchill said:

I wouldnt call it last chance. If you already have one...just keep it. Easy peasy. If you dont, buy one. Also, keep in mind, jalopnik has been producing a flurry of anti diesel articles of late. Perhaps for a reason?

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Sensationalist journalism?

2014 328d wagons are going for around 30k. Certainly, if you can't get a fully loaded SEL sportwagen for less than that, then you'd be a fool to get the VW. I was thinking about going that way, but I'm going to go for something that won't require a monthly payment instead.

I guess they want to clear out the 2015's before they offer the 2016's for sale.

But just a general comment, why is everyone getting so euphoric over this, and probably overpaying?

I'm in the 2018 buyback club. I'll have a much better sense of the market, I'll know by then how the fix affected performance/mpg, and I'll be able to digest all the deals being offered on 2015's, 2016's, 2018's (if they're going to be making them), and gas Jetta's. I'm in no hurry. More than happy to drive my car dep'n-free for two years and get my avg 42 mpg for those two years.

No 2016s. No 2017s. Maybe no 2018s. So if you want a "new" TDI the leftover '15s may be your only sure bet. Dealers know this.

Maybe no more diesel cars, ever...

Last I checked, fuel economy.gov lists only one line of 2017s diesels, Jaguars... And they may have gotten certified only because they went through the process as early 2017s. Mercedes has pulled their 2017 diesels, and while BMW said theirs was finally approved, haven't seen any. I get the feeling that EPA has seen the allegations coming out of Europe that all diesels are cheating, and they're holding up the rest of the 2017 certifications.

If that's the mood at EPA, I doubt they'll approve any "fix" for TDIs and our only options will be buyback and suffer with a gasser or keep our diesels running forever as a raised middle finger to the EPA...

Two of our local dealers have 2017 BMW 328d wagons for sale. I think BMW is doing just fine with their diesels. Chevy is also making a new diesel SUV. I do think that this signals the end of affordable diesels in passenger cars, but it's not going to happen by mandate of the EPA, just when automakers decide it isn't worth their money, r&d, etc. Diesel is still the best way to make CAFE standards, and if the EPA mandates gas particulate filters then diesel may become more attractive to automakers again.

gearheadgrrrl said:

Last I checked, fuel economy.gov lists only one line of 2017s diesels, Jaguars... And they may have gotten certified only because they went through the process as early 2017s. Mercedes has pulled their 2017 diesels, and while BMW said theirs was finally approved, haven't seen any. I get the feeling that EPA has seen the allegations coming out of Europe that all diesels are cheating, and they're holding up the rest of the 2017 certifications.
If that's the mood at EPA, I doubt they'll approve any "fix" for TDIs and our only options will be buyback and suffer with a gasser or keep our diesels running forever as a raised middle finger to the EPA...

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You keep posting the same incomplete information. EPA's list isn't up to date, as was repeatedly pointed out to you in another thread. It doesn't make sense to draw any conclusions about diesels in 2017 from that list.

conejo_a_cuatro said:

Two of our local dealers have 2017 BMW 328d wagons for sale.

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What do you think you can get them for? How much off sticker?

IndigoBlueWagon said:

No 2016s. No 2017s. Maybe no 2018s. So if you want a "new" TDI the leftover '15s may be your only sure bet. Dealers know this.

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There's definitely no 2017's, but there's gotta be thousands of 2016's around in storage somewhere that were already built but just never made it to the dealers when the scandal broke a year ago.

If they get a fix approved, which I expect to happen, no reason why they won't make 2018's with the modification.

Dealing with incomplete information...

IndigoBlueWagon said:

You keep posting the same incomplete information. EPA's list isn't up to date, as was repeatedly pointed out to you in another thread. It doesn't make sense to draw any conclusions about diesels in 2017 from that list.

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The EPA list may be out of date, or it may be pretty much correct. I go by what I read and see, and while there's a few '17 BMW and Jaguar diesels and leftover '16 and earlier models on the ground for sale, that may be it.

DieselMann99 said:

There's definitely no 2017's, but there's gotta be thousands of 2016's around in storage somewhere that were already built but just never made it to the dealers when the scandal broke a year ago

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Word is 2.0L '16s have been consolidated at port locations and/or shipped out of the country. They never received EPA certification as VW withdrew the application after the scandal broke. You won't see any for sale in North America.

DieselMann99 said:

What do you think you can get them for? How much off sticker?

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I haven't the foggiest. A new 328d is far too rich for my blood.