Big nozzles for VP engines

Jukums

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1.9 TDI 1Z TDR.lv
I wanted to know other people experience with big nozzles for VP engine and max power, what is get out from them and with what size pump.
As there isn't good product in market for like 0,350+mm size nozzles, wanted to know, what size can fully supply 350+ hp on engine.
And maybe someone know some good opening pressure combo to reduce white smoke for big nozzles, like 0,370mm ?
I know, that in market there isn't good quality nozzles what is bigger then 0,300mm, the last good quality nozzle size, what I know is 0,300(tested for over 40k km).
 

Jukums

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Intresting why so big 1. Stage pop pressure. What about 2. Pressure ?
My friend uses 0.370mm Nozzles, power output is 357hp
Yesterday I put 0.300mm nozzles on car and after 0.370mm By feelings seems, that car is making less power(remaped), but with 0.300 I can get smoke in full rpm band, till 7k rpm, but fuel in software is set to max, but smoke output isnt so big as 0.370mm Nozzles.
Also using 11mm fuel pump. 12mm fuel pump don’t like rpm.



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[486]

Top Post Dawg
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02 golf ALH
In for an answer. Got some DSS-r .360s that are a bit rough, would like something nicer before I bother figuring out a properly calibrated pump voltage map.
 

Yucca

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ALH 388bhp, Polo 6R 2.0TDI CR GTC1752VZ
I have seen over 380bhp dyno sheet with 0.320 but never with 0.360 or with bigger nozzle size. This is with rotary pump, inline pump is another story...
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
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02 golf ALH
maybe pump element filling becomes an issue?
with less power from the larger nozzles from the smaller ones efficiently using the limited fuel available from the pump vs raw flow volume

Makes me wonder about running significantly higher case pressures.
Rework the shaft seal out front with proper hydraulic packing instead of having inlet pressure against the back side of a lip seal and set up the power steering pump as a higher pressure fuel pump to deliver 200psi of inlet pressure, case pressure regulator and transfer pump should bump that up to something like 5-600 psi in the pump.
 
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Jukums

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In my expierence big size nozzles make not nice and clean black smoke, but it is more like black/grey and very much, so atomizatoion is bad and engine doesn't burn all fuel, also smoke smells like not burned fuel, so maybe there isn't enough fuel pressure in rails at WOT.
But at the moment only with 0,370mm we have measured good results, no one wasn't on dyno with smaller nozzles, but ported head etc.
Also I think, that how good fuel burns, depends on nozzle quality, and good quality nozzles, bigger then 0,300mm I doesn't seen yet.
But now I am tyring to manage that problem, to get something bigger than 0,300 in good quality.
 

bhodgkiss

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I still have a set of HFlo-X 0.341 injectors in my garage.
I ran them briefly with 10mm pump but it took ages to start and white smoke on start up was then embarrassing.

So put my R520's back in. Now I have 11mm pump and am nowhere near maxing out the pump voltage map with R520's, so I presume 0.341's would be ridiculous with me running just 1.8bar boost for about 200crank hp.

But I've heard people say they've set these big nozzles up and their car starts fine?
 

Yucca

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ALH 388bhp, Polo 6R 2.0TDI CR GTC1752VZ
In my expierence big size nozzles make not nice and clean black smoke, but it is more like black/grey and very much, so atomizatoion is bad and engine doesn't burn all fuel, also smoke smells like not burned fuel, so maybe there isn't enough fuel pressure in rails at WOT.
But at the moment only with 0,370mm we have measured good results, no one wasn't on dyno with smaller nozzles, but ported head etc.
Also I think, that how good fuel burns, depends on nozzle quality, and good quality nozzles, bigger then 0,300mm I doesn't seen yet.
But now I am tyring to manage that problem, to get something bigger than 0,300 in good quality.
How do you measure Nozzle quality? Or is just "made in china, not good" -level?

We just change injectors in dyno and charts will tell that what nozzle works and what does not.
 

Jukums

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All nozzles, what I use, are made in China, but diferent producers.
0.370 nozzles isn't possible even calibrate them, if they wasn't in car for like ~500km, after that there is possible to calibrate them on injectors, but still, in different temp they may not working, as hot injectors or cold. On car they smoke badly with white smoke at idle, cold start is fine, only very much white smoke and engine is shooting before gets working temp.
I dont even know anything, what is bigger than 0,260(Bosio Race) what isn't made in china.

At the moment we haven't dyno where we could take tests for day, because one of dyno(Superflow) seems to not showing correct power, on other dyno(Bosch) seems to be correct power, but people dont like black smoke what me make at his dyno.
 

m1ketdi

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I still have a set of HFlo-X 0.341 injectors in my garage.
I ran them briefly with 10mm pump but it took ages to start and white smoke on start up was then embarrassing.

So put my R520's back in. Now I have 11mm pump and am nowhere near maxing out the pump voltage map with R520's, so I presume 0.341's would be ridiculous with me running just 1.8bar boost for about 200crank hp.

But I've heard people say they've set these big nozzles up and their car starts fine?



What pop pressures have you had them setup with?


To get good atomization and burn on cold start on that size I think you will need to go higher than standard by a long way.



Plus with poor atomization it might be some more advance on the start of injection timing during start would help clean it up a bit.
 

bhodgkiss

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Many thanks, id have to dig out what they were set to.
What would you recommend on 1st/2nd stage pop pressures please reliably for R520 and 0.341s please?
 
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Yucca

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ALH 388bhp, Polo 6R 2.0TDI CR GTC1752VZ
Turbo model? EMP level?

It looks like you need much more air!

I did get 388bhp with 2.7bar boost and 20-22btdc.
 

Jukums

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Turbo is hybrid. Gtb2260 from F10 with billet CW 50/68
EMP hadn’t never measurred.

BDTC is higher, because I use pistons with bigger bowl, what has removed lip.


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Yucca

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2260vk hybrids is not ever ideal for big power 1.9tdi. My guess is that you are running sky high EMP if you have stock turbine wheel.

Put EMP meter and adjust boost for good EMP level. I think 2.3-2.5bar boost is right for best flow level with that turbo.

And you dont need bigger nozzles before turbo upgrade...
 

Jukums

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I will try to check what is with emp, place where connect it I have, will remove Egt probe at that moment.

Best results with gtb2260 hybrid we have 357hp@2.8bar boost but CW 52/64

What turbo did you use ?


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Jukums

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Okey, today tested EMP, and yes, it is pretty high, if boost is 3bar, then EMP is 4 bar, will try to play with software, so maybe could achive better results.
 

Yucca

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Try charger that can do 3bar boost at 2.4bar EMP. You get lot more power with that way...
 

Jukums

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Understand, but there is quite hard to find turbo like S300v or S356v. So at the moment there isn't any good solution for bigger turbo.
And about nozzles, 0.300 was maxed out, put back 0.370 and car runs much faster.
 

Yucca

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That is true, i just bought last one week ago.

GTA3576KLNV is much easier to find.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
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MN
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the big garretts are hydraulically actuated with a PWM'd solenoid and lube oil, so it'd be easy enough to get the ECU to run it, might need to have the ECU switch a transistor that runs the solenoid, but that's easy enough to brain out

ETA: or just run a big dumb WG turbo like an HX35 with an 9-12cm turbine housing
 

Yucca

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Those versions Garretts is not. And you can use vacuum actuator or Garrett PWM style servo with it.
 

Jukums

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Only possible way, what I see, how to get Hino turbo is from china.


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Yucca

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If someone want Garrett turbo that can flow as much that Borg S356V, then GTA4082KLNV with 55.5mm compressor wheel is right size.
 

smoking

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I was watching a youtube channel that i follow and there was a ibiza 1.9 PD with supposedly an IHI F55V turbo and that thing was crazy.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
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MN
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02 golf ALH
any new info on what .300 to .350 nozzles are good?

at least one of my DSS 360s is stuck, or they're just worn out by now. bad white smoke at idle
Everyone still mentions hiflo-x .341, but I can not find anyone stocking them. I see gibonta 320 are also highly regarded (in posts from 3 years ago), but more than twice the cost of gibonta 210 which makes no sense for just larger holes in the same nozzle body.

Got some aliexpress nozzles coming in a few weeks I guess I'll see how they work out, ordered a few sets to make one good set, we'll see how that works out as it was only 80 bucks.
 
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