Received Tesla Model 3, gave back TDI to VW

Fix_Until_Broke said:

The fact that many utilities don't even offer net metering, and the ones that do are buying back at ~10% of the purchased rate is disappointing.

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Not sure what you mean by that. 43 States have net metering laws requiring utilities to offer net metering and in one of the the 7 that doesn't have a law, Texas, they have 'choice' and last time I checked at least 3 providers in Texas offer net metering.

And if you have net metering they credit you 100% for your exports. That's what 'net' means 1:1. If you export more than you import you may not get any credit for your net excess but you will if it's consumed. If you produce 1000kWh and use 1000kWh under net metering you're billed for 0 kWh.

There are many towns in MA (including the one were IDParts is located) that have their own power companies and don't offer net metering. In addition, utilities are allowed to cap the number of new net metering accounts they add each year. They also separate residential and commercial accounts for allocating net metering. Commercial accounts cap out first, most years.

I think what your statement should say is: 43 States have net metering laws requiring regulated utilities to offer net metering. Smaller municipal utilities are not regulated here. May be true in other states, too.

nwdiver said:

Not sure what you mean by that. 43 States have net metering laws requiring utilities to offer net metering and in one of the the 7 that doesn't have a law, Texas, they have 'choice' and last time I checked at least 3 providers in Texas offer net metering.
And if you have net metering they credit you 100% for your exports. That's what 'net' means 1:1. If you export more than you import you may not get any credit for your net excess but you will if it's consumed. If you produce 1000kWh and use 1000kWh under net metering you're billed for 0 kWh.

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I think we're saying similar things, just getting caught up in the details.

Yes, if you generate as much as you consume, you will be billed for 0kWh (plus all the overhead fees like meter fees, distribution fees, etc). What I didn't get as specific as I should have about is: If you generate 150% of what you consume, many utilities won't pay you anything for that extra power generated and put back on the grid for your neighbor to consume. Those that do, pay $0.015-$0.025/kWh which is ~10% of what you pay to consume.

I don't want to be able to just grow my own, I want to sell what I don't need/use to the market. Unfortunately, the market has a single customer who doesn't (yet) think they need me .

Research I've done indicates (at least around here) that making more electricity than you consume is not worthwhile. You don't get paid back enough by most utilities to recover the cost of the equipment. Instead it's better to look for ways to replace systems or appliances that use other fuels to electric. The system I installed filled the roof that's best sited for generation. If I could produce a lot more electricity I'd switch from oil heat to a heat pump, for example. Or switch my clothes dryer and range from propane to electric. Or get a heat pump hot water heater. Something like that.

Net metering is a credit and debit system. It doesn't generate profits, just savings. SREC's, or solar renewable energy credits, are a way to generate profits. Like with net metering, not all states offer SREC's. Excess credits from net metering can usually be donated to the utility customer of your choice. Most people try to size their installation to their own demand.

Many utilities pay you for excess power generated and not used within whatever time window the utility has set (mine is a year). But they don't pay you much.

Yeah, I was wrong. Some states pay full retail for the surplus energy. In Maine we have a type of net metering called net billing, which is credit only.

turbobrick240 said:

Yeah, I was wrong. Some states pay full retail for the surplus energy. In Maine we have a type of net metering called net billing, which is credit only.

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There's a HUGE variance state to state.

In WA surplus rolls month to month but any kWh you have banked on April 30 IIRC is lost your 'bank' is reset to '0' and there's a $8/mo minimum bill.

In TX some RSPs allow you to bank kWh 'indefinitely', a friend there ate up ~3 years of accumulated surplus ($700) when he got his Tesla.

In NM with Xcel any surplus left at the end of the billing cycle (~30 days) is credited at $0.024/kWh and if it's >$50 they send you a check.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Or don't want to spend the money. I made the decision to purchase panels 5 years ago instead of using Solar City or a similar provider. They tend to credit you at an average low rate cost of energy, and usually lowball product by at least 20%. And they take all the tax benefits and SREQ credits. We bought the panels and have gotten close to 100% of our electrical needs, plus a federal tax credit the first year, a rebate from the state, net metering, and SREQ credits that have averaged $900 - $1,200 annually. System paid for itself in 3 years or less.

But local storage is a problem. Not cheap. In fact, your Tesla is good solar electrical storage, and you could draw on its batteries in case of a power failure. Otherwise storage is still pretty expensive.

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What was your cost as installed? My dream is to build a net-zero home instead of trying to upgrade this one. It makes more sense to me to start fresh and optimize a bunch of things at once like layout, shading, etcetera. The solar panels are nearly cheap enough to construct shade walls out of them in strategic areas.

It's a 6kW system, cost about $16K installed. Federal tax credit of $8,000 in the install year (I think that was the amount, it was a few years ago) and a $2,000 rebate from the state of Massachuestts. So rough numbers the install was about $11,000 after credit/rebate.

My brother is an architect and worked for the energy office in NY State years ago. He's always said the first step in going off the grid is to reduce demand as much as possible. Everything: House siting, lighting, and of course things like insulation and windows. There are a fair number of zero energy use homes out there, and I would think that goal would be pretty easy where you are. Here it's a little tougher: I get less than half the generation in December-February than I do in May-September. And my house uses a lot of power. Despite this the system runs the house pretty much bill free (I think I had about $60 in bills total last year). That includes running whole house A/C and a pool.

We built this house 24 years ago, and I'd love to build a zero energy use house. Building a house without HVAC here would be a huge plus. But costs are high and land is pretty much non-existent around here. We have acre zoning in most towns and a lot, if it comes up, runs $200-400K, depending on the town and location.