Dirty Dirty Fuel

dmwogan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2004 Jetta GL TDI, 5A
I did a little searching here on the forum to see if this was posted, so I'll go ahead and do it now. I just changed my fuel filter on my 2004 Jetta (pd, bew, auto). Has anyone drained the old filter to see it come out completely black? I mean it looks like the oil filter ha...Here are some pics I took this morning.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwogan/232985516/in/set-72157594254215032/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwogan/232985626/in/set-72157594254215032/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwogan/232985596/in/set-72157594254215032/

(couldn't embed images, checked the faq etc.., oh well)

A little background. The car has 56k on it, and I just got it a month ago. I have no idea when the last fuel filter was changed. I had taken a long trip on D2 (47.8 mpg in an auto woohoo) and then filled up back home at some Texaco. Well after I filled up the thing was runing really rough. So I finally got around to changing the fuel filter today.

I know when you drain you can look to see how much water is in the filter, but seriously, this looks like I drained an oil filter. Any reasons for this? Or is this normal...The thing is the feed line from the tank was clear, so I don't think thats the issue. I'm wondering if a few tanks of B20 flushed stuff out or if its just how the filter looks after a long time. Any insight guys? Thanks!!
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
well, it does look organic - :) I have seen black stains on my tanks. I pull the Kubota tank this month to wash. There is a post that explains this black - I think it has something to with sulfur.
 

dmwogan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2004 Jetta GL TDI, 5A
whitedog said:
I noticed another picture you have there... I just knew you were fromTexas...
Oh yeah? Is that a good thing or a bad thing;). I'm guessing the chrome longhorn gave it away.
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
FWIW,

I purchased my 1999.5 Jetta Tdi (with 138K on the clock) from the DFW area. It had spent its whole life in San Antonio then in DFW area. On my drive west back to Oregon, I noticed that *generally* Texas diesel has some of the worst fuel that I've come across. (I've sampled diesel in VA, OH, IN, MT, WA, OR, CA, NM, TX so you know how little I have to compare to.) It has a funky smell unlike diesel from CA, OR, WA or those other states. It has a less lubricous feel to my hands and feels gritty. The exhaust has a uniquelly different smell from what I'm used to. After about ten tanks of running Oregon diesel through my car, it returned to a 'normal' smell (normal to me anyway.) Fuel quality seems to vary quite a bit region to region. OTOH, Texas fuel sure was cheaper...by about 15-30 cents per gallon!

I'd run additives in every tank if I lived in TX...not the anti-gell additives, but something like FPPF, Primrose 405, Diesel Kleen Power Service, Howe's Meaner Power Cleaner, etcetera...
 

dmwogan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2004 Jetta GL TDI, 5A
Yeah fuel is a little cheaper here compared to other places around the country. Every since I've had the jetta I've used Power Service, so hopefully that'll take care of ulsd/possibly gritty fuel. I guess its time to start making bio in my garage :cool:
 

DieselSmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2004
Location
Cleveland, OH
TDI
'00 Jetta
It looks just like fuel that someone added used motor oil to. Many of the big rig guys, even hd diesel pickup owners run 'black fuel'. The hd pickup owners typically filter it, but will run up to 2-3 GALLONS of used motor oil in a full tank of diesel, and say they don't notice any difference, although synthetic smokes a bit. I wonder if the texaco station somehow either contaminated, or added oil to their fuel. Did the car smoke a lot?

I'd say if you're concerned, drain the contents of your new fuel filter after a thousand miles, and see how it looks, after filling from your normal station.
 

dmwogan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2004 Jetta GL TDI, 5A
I didn't notice any smoking, but the car ran rougher than it had been. Seriously, it looks like oil. My plan is to add an inline fuel filter pretty soon, as well as check this ff after a few more tanks. No more texaco for me. Is it a coincidence that all the Race Tracs here are now Texacos?
 

mrGutWrench

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Location
Carrboro, NC
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon, 5-speed, 563K Miles (July '23)
dmwogan said:
I didn't notice any smoking, but the car ran rougher than it had been. Seriously, it looks like oil. My plan is to add an inline fuel filter pretty soon, as well as check this ff after a few more tanks. No more texaco for me. Is it a coincidence that all the Race Tracs here are now Texacos?
__. It's likely just a coincidence, but there have been stories of tanks being drawn dry (or at least a lot lower than usual) in the change over to ULSD. When this happens a lot of the sludge and particulate material (what us highly trained and experience automotive engineers call by the technical term cr@p) and get stirred up and may be delivered in a big slug through the pump. A possiblility in your case. And the worst tank of fuel that I ever got was Texaco. I was smoking like a no-crack-or beer-in-three-days whore before I got two miles down the road.
'
 

ufoguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Location
Plano, Texas
TDI
2005 Passat, Shadow Blue, gray leather
biocide

You might consider a serious dose of biocide. No telling what could've been growing in your tank over the last 56k miles. I use Biobor biocide regularly to ensure that I don't have any algae growing in my tank. There is no telling how nasty some gas station fuel tanks have become.

My two cents worth.

http://www.silmid.com/biobor/biocide.htm

CP
 

wny_pat

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Western New York State
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
Just a note on your problem. Don't know if you are orginal owner or if someone else owned vehicle previously.

1. When you pick a place to fuel up at, don't pick a old station where the tanks have been in the ground for years. Pick a newer built facility. Some place that has newer tanks.

2. Never fuel up when the transport (fuel truck) is making a delivery. It stirs everything in that tank up and you get whatever is being stirred up. Always wait at least half a hour after the delivery.

3. Look around for the fuel delivery fills, they are metal plates about 1 foot in diameter, should be painted yellow or brown for the diesel (white and red are usually gas). Make sure they are not sitting in a dip where the water could accumilate around them and drain into the tanks. If they are in a dip, find another station to fuel at. The color codes are not standard, but gives you a idea for what to look for.

4. Try to stick with a brand name station owned by the refinery or a nicer appearing station. Appearance tells much about the way the station is ran.

5. Always try to pick a station which has a good turn over in fuel sales. Not one which only sells a small quanity per day. The convience type fuel stops like Petro are good because they go thru a large volumn of fuel per day.
 
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Skymedic

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Location
Crofton, MD
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I could be wrong but you may have a fungal problem.:eek: I believe diesel fuel can support fungal growth. I have heard of aviation fuel storage/pumping systems that have been unused for a time and that was the result. It apparently grows more easily in Jet A.

Wouldnt it be nice if D2 was held to the same purity and quality standards as Jet A?
 

mrGutWrench

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Location
Carrboro, NC
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon, 5-speed, 563K Miles (July '23)
Skymedic said:
I could be wrong but you may have a fungal problem.:eek: I believe diesel fuel can support fungal growth. I have heard of aviation fuel storage/pumping systems that have been unused for a time and that was the result. It apparently grows more easily in Jet A.

Wouldnt it be nice if D2 was held to the same purity and quality standards as Jet A?
__. Yeah, Med, you're exactly right. The problem comes in that diesel and water don't mix (when water is above miniscule amounts) and the interface between the fuel and the water droplet is a fine spot for the algae (I think algae more than fungus but who knows what's growing in there) to grow and thrive. Some actually need to live in the water but eat the fuel molecules.
 

dmwogan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2004 Jetta GL TDI, 5A
Thanks for the advice. I always try and fill up at places that that move a large volume of fuel( ie: alot of f250's and 350's filling up). I just happened to drop into that Texaco because it was closer to my house. I usually go a few more miles down the road because they B20 there.

I'll look into the biocide stuff.

Oh, and I bought this car used a month ago. There has only been one other owner.

Other than that the car is running great.
 

ufoguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Location
Plano, Texas
TDI
2005 Passat, Shadow Blue, gray leather
hit it with Biobor

From what the others are telling you, algae could be your problem. Order some Biobor or other biocide and shock your tank. The algae won't stop growing once it is started unless you hit with a biocide or drop your tank and sterilize it. The algae feed on diesel and moisture.

I shock mine every couple of months and use a little Biobor with each tank. I don't trust any tank to be clean of algae (except mine). I don't trust the tankers, the refinery, and especially not the retailer.

Good luck!


cp
 

wny_pat

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Western New York State
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
ufoguy said:
I don't trust any tank to be clean of algae (except mine). I don't trust the tankers, the refinery, and especially not the retailer.
In my over 20 years experience of loading, hauling, and delivering fuel products, I only saw one case of Algae contamination of #2 fuel. It had been in storage a extremely long time, and had been stored in what ever tank (non-standard) they could find when it was placed in storage. It was placed in storage during the fuel shortage of the "middle "70s", forgotten, and then pumped out in the early '80s. Hate to say this, but it was returned to a bulk plant and mixed with the #2 fuel there and sold to customers. I do not know of any retailer who test for Algae, nor do I know of any test.

Jet A was mentioned above concerning Algae growing in it easier. I cannot verify that it grows easier in Jet A or easier in #2 Fuel. It will grow in certain conditions in either. The Jet A I delivered to larger Airports received no biocide additives. It could have been added by airport personnel seperately. The airports received at least 10 loads per day, so they go thru a heck of a lot of fuel. Very fast turn over. Many of the smaller independant aviation accounts added their own biocide additives. The JP8 we hauled, had special anti freeze additives added at the refinery. Can not remember if the military required biocides for the JP8
 
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dmwogan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2004 Jetta GL TDI, 5A
Power Service Products

Any comments on Power Service Bio Kleen? Also, anyone know a good place to buy this stuff? I've been to all the auto parts stores here (Auto Zone, O'Reilly's, and some local ones) to no avail. I'm thinking I'll just order it online.

Also, I bought a bottle of Power Service Slime-X, is this just for treating fuel tanks and not for adding when filling up the car? It will all go through the fuel system, but I'm wondering what the difference is. My guess is that one is made for your car and one is for a storage tank. Thanks.
 

wny_pat

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Western New York State
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
dmwogan said:
Thanks for the advice. I always try and fill up at places that that move a large volume of fuel( ie: alot of f250's and 350's filling up). I just happened to drop into that Texaco because it was closer to my house. I usually go a few more miles down the road because they B20 there.

I'll look into the biocide stuff.

Oh, and I bought this car used a month ago. There has only been one other owner.

Other than that the car is running great.
Think that I would stock up on fuel filters. That stuff is in there and is going to keep plugging up the filter until you get it all out. Another thought would be dropping the tank and giving it a good cleaning. If I had the problem, and my fuel looked like yours, think I would find someone to drop and clean it.
 

dmwogan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2004 Jetta GL TDI, 5A
Anyone know anything about Slime-X(by Power Service) and how it compares to Bio Kleen? Thanks.
 

joshgb

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Cachagua, California
TDI
04 Jetta wagon black
David, curious if you had used anything like Diesel Purge prior to your gunking. Only time I have seen anything like that---but nowhere as bad--- was post purging + a few hundred miles. I've used Slime-X before; seemed to work but I have not used any other biocide so I can't compare.
 
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dmwogan

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2004 Jetta GL TDI, 5A
joshgb said:
David, curious if you had used anything like Diesel Purge prior to your gunking. Only time I have seen anything like that---but nowhere as bad--- was post purging + a few hundred miles. I've used Slime-X before; seemed to work but I have no used any other biocide so I can't compare.
Josh,

No Diesel Purge. I only add in PS Diesel Kleen. I have a bottle of Slime-X that I might add..I couldn't find any biocide here in Austin. I might call a few boating/marine places to see if they carry the stuff.

Also, Josh I dunno if you got my email, but it said you replied, but the only thing that showed up was my original email:/

Thanks!
 
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