5th gear grinding

A little history:
Did a 5spd swap with the old style, 99.5, shift mechanism.
Before installing 5spd, took apart trans to see if everything is ok, it was.
Manual transmission oil, just the basic.
New clutch.
When I shifted into 5th I would get a minor grind, once into gear, nothing.
Not always but most of the time.
I thought it could be the old shift mechanism and fluid.
Changed into ball/socket gear shifter and put some pennzoil synchromesh.
It shifts much better, but same 5th grinding.
If I let the engine rev around 2700 when shifting quickly from 4 to 5, it doesn't grind or let the clutch in and let the engine idle and shift from 4 to 5 it doesn't grind.
Only if I'm not in a rush, most times, and shifting around 2100 does it grind.
All other gears are ok.
Any advise?

Have you done a couple shift cable adjustments yet??
If that's checks out then It's relatively easy to pull the end cover off the tranny and inspect the fifth gear set for any signs of wear and such. Don't even have to drain the fluid.

Forgot to say, when I changed over to pennzoil synchromesh I removed the cover to inspect 5th gear, it looks good, no wear on edge of teeth.
I've spent many hours adjusting the cables per Bentley manual, even replaced this part 1J0 711 550.

You might try adding some slightly thicker gear oil. Syncromesh often works wonders in these situations, but it is a little on the thin side.

Perhaps the internal "rod" that actuates the 5th gear hub is out of adjustment or the setting bolt has slipped? I recall a simple procedure for adjusting that when putting the tranny together.

jettawreck said:

Perhaps the internal "rod" that actuates the 5th gear hub is out of adjustment or the setting bolt has slipped? I recall a simple procedure for adjusting that when putting the tranny together.

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The internal "rod". Is there any adjustment in that, and where would that be?
The setting bolt, where is that also?
I didn't do is to check the gap shown in the diagram, but would that cause the grinding if the measurement was around 0.5mm?

you said you took apart the trans, when you reassembled the fifth gear slider did you line it up correctly with the detents ?... did you put the detents back into the correct slots ?

crawdaddy said:

I've spent many hours adjusting the cables per Bentley manual, even replaced this part 1J0 711 550.

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Do you have any side-to-side slop in your shifter? What condition is your "earwax" bushing in? This is what controls the lifting/lowering of the relay lever on the trans.

Rembrant said:

Do you have any side-to-side slop in your shifter? What condition is your "earwax" bushing in? This is what controls the lifting/lowering of the relay lever on the trans.

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Are you referring to this part# 1K0711699

jimbote said:

when you reassembled the fifth gear slider did you line it up correctly with the detents ?... did you put the detents back into the correct slots ?

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If I remember, doesn't the keys go in one way, and only in one set of 3?
If we're talking about the same thing.
If you are right, and the keys are the in wrong slots, would you still be able to shift into 5th if the keys were in the wrong slot.
What about letting the engine rev around 2700 when shifting quickly from 4 to 5, it doesn't grind?????

crawdaddy said:

Are you referring to this part# 1K0711699

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No, but you can tighten up that socket if need be. Dieselgeek has a good how-to on that. I've done it myself, and it works.

I was referring to this...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4516452&postcount=21

Just thought I would throw it out there...if you have any side-to-side slop, it might affect 5th gear shifting.

Rembrant said:

No, but you can tighten up that socket if need be. Dieselgeek has a good how-to on that. I've done it myself, and it works.

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I did the same thing.

Rembrant said:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4516452&postcount=21
Just thought I would throw it out there...if you have any side-to-side slop, it might affect 5th gear shifting.

Click to expand...

I remember that piece was in good shape, still flexible.

crawdaddy said:

I did the same thing.
I remember that piece was in good shape, still flexible.

Click to expand...

OK, very good, just thought I'd throw it out there. My 2000 Beetle was grinding going into 5th sometimes...it was a bit unnerving with the sound it made...and I too was worried about the trans itself.

Because I did a whole bunch of stuff at the same time, I can't tell you exactly what fixed it. The car originally had the old ball/socket type cable ends, the shift tower ball sleeve was shot, the relay lever plastic bushings were stuck/seized, and the shifter socket in the car was a bit sloppy/loose.

I repaired everything, switched to the later style post/clip cable ends, put some GM Syncromesh fluid in there, installed a FGG, and the car shifted like brand new after that. I think the "issue" was not necessarily one thing but all of the worn parts together.

The actuator Rod and adjustment bolt I referred to is visible in your pic on the right hand side (viewing the pic). It is what moves/pivots the selector hub mechanism shown.

keys in the narrow slots on hub, synchro ring lugs in the wide slots on hub, and slider dogs have detent reliefs @ 120* apart that line up with the keys ... and no it can't "only go one way" seen them assembled in all combinations above of wrong and yes it can cause grinding when assembled incorrectly ...

I have a similar problem with my 2003 Golf ALH. 5th gear will grind when I shift at high RPM. I had replaced the gear selector, so I thought maybe I had the keys and synchro tabs in the wrong slots. So I took the transmission cover off and I had everything in the correct slots. One thing is that the brass synchro ring has a fair amount of play side to side and in and out. How tight is it supposed to be?

If you removed the selector on the 5th gear synchro, it is a little fussy on its alignment / position when you tighten those two bolts.
There's a procedure in the manual, but I found that I had to do a little tweaking after that positioning to get my 5th selecting properly.

Thanks, do you mean the two bolts on the selector fork?

Well, I took everything apart and put it back together. This time the brass synchro ring was a lot tighter. Now it shifts fine with no grinding.