Car died last night..fuel gelling throw a code?

Car died last night in the cold- TAKE 2!!!!! >

In 5 degree F weather last night my car started to intermitanly loose power, then finally just died. I figured it was the fuel gelling up, but I scanned it and the code said something about "initial pump timing sensor intermitant" or something like that, I should have written it down. The bottom of the fuel filter was cold to the touch. Any idea if fuel gelling could cause this code, or you think its a whole 'nother problem?

Gelling could cause this - the pump can't pull it through the filter after a while. So it throws a code.

I was under the misconception that once the car runs for a while the fuel heats up, and therefore is not likely to gel up. The tow truck driver said I'm wrong. Am I wrong? I think I am....

If the car is really warmed up, it is unlikely to gell. However, you pumped a bunch of gell-ing fuel through the filter, which catches the parafin (iirc - or whatever causes the cloudy fuel) which has precipitated out - and clogs pretty quickly. Warming it up doesn't work, since about 20 times the normal amount of this stuff is there, and the fuel filter just doesn't hold enough fuel to put it back into suspension.

How far did you drive before it lost power?

I drove aprox. 330 miles with two 20 minute stops, it went about 25 miles after the 2nd stop before it died. It took a little longer than usual to start after the 2nd stop too.

Did you fill with fuel during that trip? Odd that it would gell after 330 miles with minimal stopping.

When was the last time the fuel filter was changed? If you are doing 3k miles a week like you indicate in your sig, they you must have changed it recently, right?

Where did you get your last fuel, have they switched to Winter Diesel? I assume they still do that with ULSD, you might want to add some Power Service Anti Gelling additive to this tank.

fuel filter is two weeks old. I fuelled up at the beginning of the trip in CT at texaco so I assume they've switch to winter fuel in the last month or two. The only difference in driving was that the first 300 miles was highway, the last 25 was backroads and a lot of shifting...

I looked up engine codes in my shop manual and I didnt see the one that vag com gave me....

oh well, its sitting at the stealership now 50 miles away, awaiting a fuel filter change

I'm guessing that the fuel you purchases wasn't as good as you would like.

I'm not thinking jelling, since it was in the "recirculating" mode to bring the heat back. Tough thinking it got cold enough to precipitate - which leads me to think that there may be something else in there.

Of course, perhaps it is cold enough there for the t-valve not to send fuel back, and it did get really cold in the tank.

Good luck. I have become puzzled by this - I also believed as you that if the car was running, it wouldn't jell.

Perhaps someone who knows something can give us a lesson.

rdkern said:

(snip) I also believed as you that if the car was running, it wouldn't jell.
Perhaps someone who knows something can give us a lesson.

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__. I don't know much of anything but I'm also guessing that a trip of 330 miles should keep the tank and filter warm enough to provent gelling. But I'm also thinking of H2O-based ice. Of course, there's always the chance that it "waxed" up enough to plug the filter but I'm thinking ice. Anybody else?

You drove from where to where? CT to northern NY? What was the temperature change?

It certianly sounds like gelling to me. I've had this happen when the temp got down to +8F or so. It froze in the lines. Once back above about 25F, it was fine.

This time of year it is a good idea to carry a small bottle of the RED power service in case your fuel gels. It should only be used once the fuel starts to gel and works real well. The bottle is red with a black top so you will not confuse it with the normal power service.

when I left home it was about 20F, it died at 5F in the mountains of VT. Its at a dealer now, maybe I'll drop by before they work on it and see if I can get it going and drive it home by bypassing the filter. It would probably save me hundreds and hundreds if I beat them to it $$$$

just a thought- how bout running an extra long coolant return hose, running a few coils of it around the fuel filter before it dumps into the plastic reservoir? Not the most efficient heat exchanger but it would probably heat the fuel in the filter enough to prevent gelling, and it would only cost two dollars.....

For 5 years I made weekly trips from Middletown CT to Chateaugay NY with a 99.5 Jetta TDI big temp change in the winter, bought Texaco on the Berlin pike, never had jelling. I did use power service.

Busguy71 said:

when I left home it was about 20F, it died at 5F in the mountains of VT. Its at a dealer now, maybe I'll drop by before they work on it and see if I can get it going and drive it home by bypassing the filter. It would probably save me hundreds and hundreds if I beat them to it $$$$

just a thought- how bout running an extra long coolant return hose, running a few coils of it around the fuel filter before it dumps into the plastic reservoir? Not the most efficient heat exchanger but it would probably heat the fuel in the filter enough to prevent gelling, and it would only cost two dollars.....

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Change the filter if you can get it away from the dealership. This may not have been true "jelling" but instead, cloudy fuel clogging the filter. New filter may very well fix it, and better winterized fuel may keep it clean for your return trip.

I tend to carry a spare fuel filter and tools when I'm traveling out of the area. You never know when some unusual fuel, or rapidly changing conditions, can blindside you.

I have experienced this as well, not very fun, but I've found that in MN the state mandates bio be blended with diesel and some bio can cause the parafin waxes to precipitate out further limiting the supply to the filter, creating a vacuum and eventually vapor lock. I took out the fuel pump and cleaned out the tank to see if that solves my problem - if not I have a new pump and filter coming this week from bleachedbora. I'll send a note back if I find something.

dealership called, put a filter in and the engine is running. ( I slept in after all) Then they said they'd diagnose the loss of power I reported. NOPE. I'm going to pick it up right now. I'll clear the code and see if it comes back on the way home, but it was probably just the filter.

They also said that one of my balljoints was installed incorrectly and it is absolutely unsafe to drive. Well, a different dealership installed that ball joint...75,000 miles ago. Whatever, I'm driving it. Maybe I'll try to have them fix it for free later.....

Pick up a White bottle of Power Service at Walmart -IIRC it is around $5.00 and will treat around 8 fillups, will boost your cetane, clean your injectors and prevent winter gelling. Cheaper than getting the dealer to replace your fuel filter, in fact you could buy a fuel filter, fill it with Power Service and stick it in, that might help sort out your gelling problem.

Hmmmmm, anyone else waiting for the 'tinman' to chime in or is it just me?

PS white is the way to go, sucks that you have to use it before stuff hits the fan. First step PS 911, new filter and a night in a warm garage. Then, as stated earlier, PS white until April.

UPDATE!!!!!!

the car is home and runs like new. The whole ordeal set me back over $300 ($155 at the dealer, plus tow, plus some cash for my buddy to pick me up and deliver my route...)
BUT HERES THE INTERESTING PART:

the dealer told me one of my ball joints was "installed incorrectly" and was unsafe to drive. They told me I'd have to have the car towed, or have them replace it. I spoke with the mechanic and he said only one of the three bolts "caught" and it was hangin on by one...... Soooo......I drove it home anyway. Inspected the ball joints myself and all three bolts and nuts were secure in both ball joints. ???????????????????????????????????

it looks safe to me. whatever.

btw: that ball joint in question was installed by a dealer when I bought the damn car.......

anyway, I'll write down the code in case anyones interested. I'm gonna clear it and see if it comes back tonight...

weedeater said:

It certianly sounds like gelling to me. I've had this happen when the temp got down to +8F or so. It froze in the lines. Once back above about 25F, it was fine.

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Could be caused by ICING due to water contamination and not actually gelling. These are temps cold enough for icing but still too warm for gelling, assuming the fuel has been properly winterized.

What version fuel pickup sender does the OP's TDI have? Given that it's a 2000 TDI, I suspect it has an early version fuel pickup sender in the tank which has the troublesome check valve. The check valve often becomes the first victim of icing (due to water in fuel) and gets plugged with ice crystals, stopping fuel flow.

Check the version of the fuel sender in the tank. Any revision level prior to "H" is suspect. Rev "B" and "C" sender units are known bad ones. The letter at the end of the VW part number on the assembly denotes the version or revision level.

Also be sure to fuel up only at high volume gas stations along major routes to get the freshest (and least water-contaminated) fuel and regularly use an additive that does something for water and has some anti-gell stuff in it.

Good luck.

Very good possiblity the problem is in the fuel tank pickup assembly. Have you taken it out and done the check valve removal mod to it yet?? Most of the 2000 models had the affected part # and anyone living in the cold parts of the world should do this or replace the pickup unit with the updated one which has less restriction. Cold fuel in the tank gobbs up on the end of the tube and blocks the opening so you get no flow to the filter. Thread/post around here titled "secret cold weather design flaw" IIRC or something along those lines. I did it long ago and no such issues again, but I also add PS every tank for assurance.

I was a bit late. See above for better explaination. The thread with instructions on how to do the pick-up mod is in the A4 General Maintainance section and current.

jettawreck said:

The thread with instructions on how to do the pick-up mod is in the A4 General Maintainance section and current.

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Here's the thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=68872

Untreated D2 will start to gel at 25F, or thereabouts.

Ditto the fuel pickup.

As for heating the filter, that's what the T-thingy is for. It should be recirculating hot fuel either to the filter and/or tank.

cool thanks for all the advice guys!

the code cleared itself, drove it 1000 miles since it died monday and its going good, putting 8 oz. white power service per 12 gallon fillup and got a bottle of red for emergencies. I'll do the pickup mod next time I have a chance

well here we go again. With 16oz of white bottle PS in the tank, she started to cough and die in -2F weather. I pulled over, drained the filter, filled it with red bottle PS, and it went about a mile more and totally died. Tried the same thing again, but this time the battery went dead. ( headlights on for quite a while while I fooled with it and lit a campfire to stay warm on the side of the highway...)

PS claims it will prevent gel up to -36F, so it looks like something else may be effecting the car... only in cold weather.

Threw the same code, this time I saved the file on VAG-Com but I dont know how to retreive it..... said initial injection something something intermittent.

pump issue? sensor issue? Now I cant drive it for work til its 100% fixed.

Busguy71 said:

well here we go again. With 16oz of white bottle PS in the tank, she started to cough and die in -2F weather. (snip)

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__. Hey Busguy, did you do the fix that JettaWreck talks about in #23 above? The pickup blockage will stop a car that doesn't have gelled fuel.

I havnt done this yet, but I'll try to this weekend. Definitely before I use the car again.

AFter I flushed the filter I cracked an injector line and cranked it. There was fuel coming out but it wasnt starting. I'll let ya know what happens 2morrow