Questions From A Potential New Owner

I have been searching for a 2004 or 2005 Passat for the last couple of months, and am happy to have found this site. While I love the fuel economy, I'm concerned about the number of problems described in the posts below. It seems like 4/5 posts describe a mechanical problem, and most of the replies suggest that the issues are common and/or widespread. From what I can tell. this was a fairly low volume car, so to see this high percentage of problems is a bit troubling.

Bottom line, for someone who has grown up on Japanese cars which require little more that oil changes and some fluid replacement, will I regret going with a TDI? I really don't want to get to know my mechanic that well, if you know what I mean. I had an Audi a while back, and it seemed like it always had some sort of strange noise or small puddle underneath it.

I suppose another option would be to wait for Honda to release the diesel Accord, as that is likely to be a fairly reliable car, yet it will be priced pretty high.

I'm hoping for some frank and candid advice, as opposed to a fanboy who'll tout only the virtues of the car while blindly ignoring its faults. I guess I'm looking for an honest assessment of the car's pros and cons.

I'll sell you mine if you've not found one, yet!

As those here will tell you, if you're not able to give the car the attention it requires, it's probably not for you.

That said, I can do a majority of the normal maintenance this car requires. Thus far, mine has been nothing short of awesome. I've changed the oil, air filter, fuel filter and tires. Other than that, there's been no additional needs, knock on wood.

There's nothing real odd about this car that I've noticed. It goes when I tell it to, stops when I command it...and nothing has been overly quirky about it...there are more strange noises in my Chevy than the Passat.

Got ourselves a deal?

if your not electronic or mechanically inclined, if you don't know which end of a wrench to use, if you don't know what a MAF is then move on. If you like to punish yourself, then I can sell you my 05 TDI Wagon, it will be for sale next month, 53K miles on it.

The problem is not the car, issues can come up with any car. Even Honda's and Toyota's. The real problem is a place in Bakersfield to fix the issues that have come up. The Family Motors dealership is a joke. Maybe there is an indy shop in the area that can help.

If anything you'll need to go down south (LA or Orange County) to get repairs done if needed.

Honestly if you have to ask, then don't buy one.

Thanks a lot for the enlightening responses. In light of what I sensed was a rather spotty reliability record, why is there such a cult-like following for this car? Obviously, it gets good mileage, but there are certainly other areas on which to rate a car, such as reliability, comfort, acceleration, etc, areas where other cars are certainly superior to the Passat. Factor in the disproportionately high cost of diesel, and even that mileage edge starts to fade.

I guess what drew me to the car was the fuel economy and the perceived notion that diesel cars are supposed to last longer than a gasoline counterpart. That said, if the thing is going to be a constant source of irritation, then I'm probably better off looking elsewhere. I'm sure you guys have probably looked at far more cars than I have, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on a good alternative to a Passat TDI. Maybe a Honda Accord EX 4-cylinder?

In glancing over more of the posts on the first and second pages which describe various mechanical issues, I guess I was hoping that these were fairly isolated issues, but as I dig deeper, it seems like many of these issues are pretty common across the board. If this is the case, why do so many seem bound and determined to hold on to their Passat TDIs to bitter end of time. Are you guys just a band of masochists, or what?

Part of the problem is that you've come to an enthusiasts board. 9 times out of 10, the thread you're reading is related to a problem of some sort. If every thread touted the awesomeness of the vehicle, it'd be pretty damned boring to read.

The point is that my Passat is a fantastic car. I've driven both the Accord and Camry and would rather spend more money on fuel to drive my car than either of those. I just FEEL better in my Passat.

I don't know how else to explain it to you. You sound to me like you WANT to be talked out of it. If that's the case, then so be it.

Buying a new VW is like buying a new car w/o a warranty

VW/Audi is better suited to those who still enjoy driving, Boss. For those subscribing to a "gas 'n' go" mentality, the VW could be a really poor choice regardless how good the fuel consumption is.

Major Factor #2: It's the dealership that's really the problem. Go interview the local VW dealership's service writer and see if he inspires confidence

theboss said:

why do so many seem bound and determined to hold on to their Passat TDIs to bitter end of time. Are you guys just a band of masochists, or what?

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Have you driven one???? We are not masochists, we enjoy bonding with our machines. It is not a chore, or a hobby, it's a way of life. Even my wife laid down the law after one 15 minute test drive. After driving every other midsize sedan on the market including other german makes, her words were, "I want one of those, and it has to be a diesel".

If you drive one and then can still consider buying and driving something else, then you cannot see the beauty that is the car and should probably buy something else. Saving money is never ever ever a valid reason to buy a TDI.

Now that's more like it! I can certainly appreciate the passion expressed in the last couple of posts. I have driven a couple, and I found it to be a really capable highway cruiser, but I have been in other cars that were far more responsive around town (no lag), cornered better, etc. Frankly, if I had my druthers, I'd rather get a rear wheel drive car, but there frankly aren't very many mainstream sedans that offer it. Engineerorange, drive a rear wheel drive car aggressively, and it will make you forget all about a front wheel drive chassis that plows straight ahead when being asked to turn. No front driver, regardless of how well engineered, can defy the laws of physics that go along with 60% of the weight riding on the front wheels, which are charged with steering and propulsion.

All in all, I really do appreciate the feedback everyone has provided, and in light of the rarity of these cars in California, and the likelihood that no one will be able to adequately service it locally, I'd be a real idiot to buy one. Thanks for straightening me out before I made what probably would have been a big mistake.

If you like the Passat buy the 1.8T or better yet the new 2.0T. It gets almost as good mileage on cheaper fuel and costs less to buy used.

"All in all, I really do appreciate the feedback everyone has provided, and in light of the rarity of these cars in California, and the likelihood that no one will be able to adequately service it locally, I'd be a real idiot to buy one. Thanks for straightening me out before I made what probably would have been a big mistake."

I think the problem is more with the fact that you're in middle of the state, where there are little to no trusted shops or gurus. I've not found that having my car in California has been an issue, since I have access to some excellent shops in the SF Bay Area, and there are get togethers fairly often where gurus do timing belt changes and such. I'm also willing to drive as far as I need to make sure work done on my car is up to par. I've driven down to Fullerton to have Harv work on my car and I will drive up to the Pacific Northwest to have Oldpoopie or DBW do the timing belt on my car if there are no local GTG's at the time.

If you're willing to do some work yourself as I am, then it may not be an issue with the car. I do all the work on my car myself since TDI's are pretty easy to work on compared to other cars. I save the major stuff for the gurus mentioned above. That way, I know what oil is used and have total control on what happens to my car. I also visit this site often especially since gurus like Oilhammer and MoGolf both own B5.5 Passat TDIs and are always helpful when it comes to sharing info about the car and their experiences. You might want to consider doing some of the work yourself on the car and drive either up to the bay area or down to Socal to have the important work done if needed.

This Passat is the 24th car I've owned, the last two being TDIs and the last 4 being VWs. The Passat is a great highway car and I drive down to Los Angeles from the bay area often to visit family and over to Vegas as well. I love the ride, and the cruising range since I can make it from the bay area to LA in about a half tank. Not having to stop at all during the drive down is huge to me since it saves a bunch of time and hassle. Also, since I have a wagon, I'm able to carry along a lot of stuff, which is important for the business I'm in.

Owning a VW means one understands that things are not always going to be perfect. None of my VWs were and my Passat follows the same pattern. But I knew that going in and overall have been very happy with the car. Over the years this website has been invaluable to me and it will be for you too if you so decide to get a TDI.

For myself, it was far from being a mistake but I certainly understand your hesitation given where you're at and the lack of resources around you. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

Mazda Hybrid

The only Japanese brands that attempt to approach the German "feel" experience is Nissan and Mazda. If you need a compact, the Mazda3 with a 5-speed stick is the way to go. The "new" (gas) Rabbit doesn't deserve to empty the Mazda's bedpan! If you need a midsize car, the new Nissan Altima 2.5 with the 6-speed manual is the set-up. Their gasoline fuel economy is pretty good; even if you save on fuel by buying a TDI, you will lose it all in repair costs versus the Japanese. On the other hand, if you believe in global warming, and are worried about the next generation, buy a TDI for ultimate CO2 reduction. Hope I confused you! P.S. Hondas and Toyotas are TOASTERS...

If you buy a TDI, you can't be ignorant about oil issues and maintainence like you CAN be on most Japanese vehicles. If you buy a TDI you can't listen to the information spouted to you about diesels from your "brother-inlaw, friend" who is an OTR truck driver. TDI engines work harder than those big lazy diesels. The big thing about the PD motored TDI cars is the fact that they MUST use an oil that meets 505.01 or better standards because of the special camshaft lubrication requirements. Sad thing is many dealers "think" they know better and thus the wrong oil gets used often on these cars. For the most part major mechanical items are NOT inexpensive here!

Thanks for the advice guys. In essence, you guys make owning a Passat sound a bit like dating Paris Hilton. Driving hundreds of miles to get a timing belt change? I don't think so, not for a car which is the equivalent of a Chevy Malibu in Europe. An Aston Martin? Maybe that would be worth the hassle and effort.

And there you have it!

theboss said:

Thanks for the advice guys. In essence, you guys make owning a Passat sound a bit like dating Paris Hilton. Driving hundreds of miles to get a timing belt change? I don't think so, not for a car which is the equivalent of a Chevy Malibu in Europe. An Aston Martin? Maybe that would be worth the hassle and effort.

Click to expand...

I feel like we saved another one

Well I'm a little late but...

If you'll allow I'd like to chime in.

I wanted to quote my favorite post from me:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2057100&postcount=2

Whole thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=206556 (good read by the way)

"If you need us to convince you that you want to own a VW, you don't want to own a VW."
"Don't buy it cause you want to win the "I saved the most on fuel" game." (because you won't with the passat)

I love mine, and you can have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands. I have to drive and hour and a half to get to the mechanic I'd trust to fix it (and if it dosen't run, I'll tow it there). I've had to buy a few special tools (still many more to buy). I had to mail-order my oil. I had to have the timing belt done right after I bought it and I'm planning on some wear related expenses soon (brakes, CV axels, shocks).

Has she been like a high-maintenance girlfriend? YES!!! You have to reasearch what she likes and treat her like she expects to be treated. I've put 17,000 miles on mine in the 6 months I've owned it and it NEVER fails to put a smile on my face when I kick the turbo. It's hard enough to find a B5.5 TDI, now try to find one that you KNOW has had the right oil and been well taken care of. I had to fly across the country and drive it home 1100 miles to find one.

So, if you're not ready to be more than a little obsessed about your car, you may want to find something normal. If not, keep reading here, there is much to learn. Remember, you now have a leg-up on someone who's never heard of a balance shaft assembly and dosen't know to listen for "marbles in a blender."

Diesel on, or don't, either way good luck,

Like I said in an earlier post, you gotta love the passion. That said, having to dote on a car cannot be seen as a virtue. You certainly wouldn't view any other purchases in the same way. Say you're buying a new DVD player. You have your heart set on a particular model, and you're willing to put up with the fact that 1 out of every 10 discs comes out scratched, sometimes it makes a weird squealing sound, and every so often blows a fuse. Or maybe that new kitchen faucet. Sure, it leaks into the cabinet below every few months, and sometimes it gives me hot water when I want cold, but hey, look at how pretty it is!

Again, I came here hoping to find out that the car was essentially average from a reliability standpoint. The posts thus far have proven that even the car's most ardent supporters see it as "worth putting up with the extra hassle." That's not exactly the ownership experience I want to have.

It's just very hard for me to see a Passat TDI as something more than a mainstream sedan. No car is perfect, and they all have their relative strengths and weaknesses. It just appears as though some of the die hards here have a tough time with their pen when they get to the "cons" side of the paper. The thought of driving 90 minutes to get the car serviced is just ludicrous for anyone who has other things going on in their life like work, a spouse, children, etc. Is it possible that Passat TDI owners are made up of single guys who have the spare time to do nothing but pamper their cars? Put it this way, if your high maintenance girlfriend has the occasional herpes breakout (which she didn't get from you), would you still feel like catering to her every need?

What kind of bait you using tonight "Boss"?

Actually, just trying to get a handle on this level of devotion for a car whose virtues are not so readily apparent. Does the car rate higher than a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10 in any category besides fuel economy? Again, I was actually hoping to hear that the car wasn't such a handful to own, but quite to the contrary, people seem to revel in a certain degree of misery, which is tough for me to understand. I'm just looking for someone to logically explain it to me, but maybe it's just a purely emotional appeal that I'll never get.

Remember you are speaking to about 6 out of 12000 owners here. For several years passat was rated above camry etc. Yes TDI has a few quirks and needs some special fluids and love.

Mine has been near flawless save for few minor problems. Others have had intermediate problems that the dealers have fixed. Yes, VW dealer networks are not the best. And in Cali they wont know TDIs too well at all.

Sigmund Freud owned a TDI

Well, for me the B5's virtues are simple: it is a roomy, solid car that has excellent performance AND just happens to do so on a minimal amount of fuel.

We bought ours new, and has not had any issues except a tail light bulb.

I cannot FIT in a Camry or Accord for more than a few minutes without being uncomfortable, and after having to drive one (a Camry) to Chicago once for school I damn near needed physical therapy.

I also keep my cars indefinitely. My '91 Jetta has likely outlived most people's Japanese cars quite handily, and still looks runs and drives excellent with no end in sight. I firmly expect my B5 to do the same, albeit with some minor stuff along the way simply due to its greater complexity.

There is a known weak spot with the BHW engine with regards to the balance shaft assembly, however even this would not in any regard want me to give up the car. A car that drives like a tank, needs a mere 2500 RPMs to maintain 80 MPH, never needs to downshift on hills, does not care if the A/C is running, if the car is loaded, or if the trailer is behind it. And will STILL net over 35 MPG. Unlike the gasser alternatives, that feel as if the gerbil is going to fly off the wheel at those speeds, and is gutless when loaded....all to get *maybe* 25 MPG under the same conditions.

The B5 TDI is IMHO one of the BEST Volkswagens ever to be sold here. Too bad they only were here for a short time in very small numbers. But at least I got one fresh and new!

I'm a bit nervous about ownership of my B5. But I was nervous about the B4 TDI (four of 'em) when I got my first one of those. Once I got familiar with the B4 car and it's sub-systems, I realized how well it was thought out, how logical it was, I was hooked. My first was lost in an accident. I bought another. I found a wagon, bought it and sold the second sedan. I lost the wagon in another accident. By this time there were few TDI wagon worthy of my consideration or wallet, so I built one. The lack of dealer aptitude in my area which forced me to learn the car came in handy.
Now I have a B5.5 wagon because my wife took my B4 wagon. The dealer will probably never see this newer one either.
Is it a Honda? No, fortunately. I cursed and swore at that car each and every time I worked on it for the idiotic design and construction. I want an inexpensive car, not a cheaply built, and therefore overpriced car. We sold the newer Honda when she decided the older B4 was better and we're both happier. My father-in-law swears by his Accords, but he leases, has maintenance agreements and knows they're disposable.
The diesel Accord has taken a tip from the hydrogen economy. Each will be here in the near future, but that continues to be a moving target.

In answer to your question

"if your high maintenance girlfriend has the occasional herpes breakout (which she didn't get from you), would you still feel like catering to her every need?"

YES !!! If I could have Lisa back even with herpes I would consider myself the luckiest man in the world. For now it will have to be my TDI warts and all.

Joe

My TDI Wagon is the best thing ever. I had a 2000 Golf 1.8T- my first hatch back. It was spunky and versitle. I vowed I would never go back to a sedan- but I needed more leg room. I was growing up and actually need to put adult size ppl in the back.

In comes the passat wagon. We can fit 4 adults. We can fit 4 adults and overnight bags. We can fit all our vacation stuff for going to the cabin for 2 weeks AND tow the boat there. We can drive around in town and get better mileage than my golf did. We cna cruise 45 min drive to the drive in movie theater and get > 40 MPG.

The passat wagon for me is the ultimate non SUV SUV. Does it all, with subdued style, comfort, and high level of reliability and economy. There is no one other car on the market that would do it for me until something else diesel with a 2000 lbs towing capacity comes along. Just wish it were 4-motion with the same economy.

If you really want to read about passat problems go to passatworld!

What is interesting is just how many problems happen to these cars simply from neglect, abuse, or ignorance.

Of course, working on these cars every day I see all kinds of stuff, but for the most part the horror stories are not due to the car itself.

Has anyone ever figured out why the car sold in such small numbers? Even though it
was only sold in 45 states, you'd think a car with these virtues would have sold like
gangbusters. I've driven a Prius, and when I got out, the only thought that crossed my
mind is that you really, really want to save some gas to put up with one of those turds.
Still, Toyota still can't build enough of them to meet demand, and used ones sell for
almost MSRP. It wasn't for me, but I'm not about to dismiss all Prius owners as stupid as many are likely to do. That kind of market share and popularity can't be shrugged off and dismissed. If so, what must people conclude about a truly niche car like the Passat TDI?

Assuming the Passat's virtues were as readily apparent as the owners here believe,
the car wouldn't have been such a well kept secret when it was sold new. I guess I
was hoping that VWs less than stellar reliability and suspect dealer network were more
perception than reality, but the comments here suggest otherwise, even from the car's
most ardent supporters. I do appreciate the candor, but I just don't have that kind of
time or patience. The car's current perceived exclusivity is driven more by the lack of demand when sold new as opposed to any obvious measure of mechanical excellence. Perhaps that puts too fine a point on it, but no one here has been able to list legitimate reasons why you would put up with below average reliability and the need to go to extraordinary lengths just to maintain the car.

Well, VOA advertising on TDIs was (and is) virtually non-existent. Even many magazine articles don't even mention the diesel engine option.

Second, Volkswagen is general is a slow seller here. In Europe, China, South America, South Africa, and other places they are top dog. But Americans, as usual, have a difficult time grasping common sense things as well as being frugal.

Third, Volkswagens largely due to the ever-tanking US dollar and the ever-strengthening Euro are EXPENSIVE to buy. My Passat was $10k more than a comparable Camry. To me, it is worth every penny although I would have rather had a lesser trimmed version but we don't get that option.

Fourth, I think you possibly read too much into the hype, both pro and con, on both sides. I have done far more repairs, many quite expensive, to the previous generation 4 cylinder Camry (the 2003-2006) than I have to any B5s, despite servicing a larger-than-average amount of B5s due to specializing in them. And we replace A/C compressors on Hondas like every day almost, they are that bad.

I would challenge anyone, anywhere, to compare notes with me after 300k miles on the virtues of MY decision to purchase a 2004 Passat versus their decision to purchase a 2004 Camry or Accord.

You won't convince me, and I won't convince you, so just move along and buy whatever throwaway you choose and I guess be happy with that decision. It sounds like since you have "owned several Jap cars" you are of the throwaway mentality anyways. I likely will not need to purchase but one more new car the rest of my life, because the ones I have now when properly maintained will see me to my grave. Does not mean my way is right or wrong, just different.

And FWIW, I spent nearly $12k in 1991 for my 52hp Jetta. Find me anything else I could have bought for that much or less in '91 that is still on the road, uses 1/2 of oil between oil changed (at 10k mile intervals), still gets 45 MPGs, still holds easily and comfortably my 275 lb 6'1" frame, and has everything working, intact, no rust holes, no faded paint, and the original drivetrain (even the original CLUTCH!!!) You probably would have been through 4 or 5 Civics or Corollas by now.