2005 BEW PD lift pump operation and internals

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
due to the venturi lift design of the diesel sending unit a gasser pump motor may work just fine because the upstream never sees head pressure from the actual pump, actually no part of the assembly ever sees head pressure from the pump.... it just needs good flow to operate
 
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turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Can you try it for us and report back? :eek: I have a gasser pump, not sure I want to try it, ;)
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
it would be just the gasser pump motor not the whole sending unit
Hmmmm, might have to try that, I have 2 dead PD pumps and a few good gasser pumps. :cool:
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Forgot about this, update?
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
If you end up needing new IN TANK fuel hose, look on this page, then scroll down a fair bit. You can find the corrugated hoses (my favorite) or you can get the solid elastomer (rubber looking) hoses.

I have personally seen hoses turn to mush when put into fuel tanks - just fuel rated hose will not work.

http://apeusa.com/html/kits.html
 

JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
If you end up needing new IN TANK fuel hose, look on this page, then scroll down a fair bit. You can find the corrugated hoses (my favorite) or you can get the solid elastomer (rubber looking) hoses.

I have personally seen hoses turn to mush when put into fuel tanks - just fuel rated hose will not work.

http://apeusa.com/html/kits.html
Now if only I knew what diameter and length I needed for wifeys BEW lift pump. I bought and installed a new lift pump motor from the vendor here (can't remember the name). I was suspect of the corrugated hoses that came with that kit and wondered where to get a spare. I bookmarked the above website though, thank you!!
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
For the record, I still suggest that no one modifies their fuel pump.

The latest (as of Feb 2017) iteration I have made of the Left Coast Resident’s fuel pump modification is as follows.

1- 47245K24 a 5/16” barbed check valve.
1-5372K614 a 5/16” barbed tee.
4-53175K84 stamped 11, range 9.5 to 11.5mm rolled edge 360 degree hose clamp.
2-53175K86 stamped 13, range 11.5 to 13.5mm rolled edge 360 degree hose clamp.
The above are from McMaster.com.

1-Flex-08-236, is an 8mm 236mm long corrugated hose.
2” - 516J30R10, is 5/16 submerged in fuel rated slick hose – buy 2”.
1-flex-08-160, is an 8mm ID, 160mm long hose that can replace your original pump to canister top hose to restore the original configuration (my recommendation) – or it can be used as a donor for the coupling to hook up the modification in option 3B, below.
The above can be purchased at http://apeusa.com/html/kits.html Page down to see them.

Do not tighten a hose clamp until instructed, but remember to put them in place before inserting the barbs.
1) Trim the input and output of the check valve so that the barb is left in place (this is only cutting off about 2.5mm on each end).
2) Trim the tee so that only one barb is left on each leg.
3) Option A. Carefully cut the pump discharge hose such that the cylindrical part between the beginning of the corrugations and the top of the pump discharge nozzle (which is visible inside the hose) is cut in half. I used a new and very sharp hobby knife. This left enough on each end of my hose to fit over the barbs on the tee. Doing it this way allowed me to leave the Oetiker clamp alone.
3) Option B. Cut the existing discharge even with the top of the pump nozzle, remove the Oetiker clamp, remove the hose from the discharge nozzle. This leaves a few mm more of the cylindrical part of the hose to clamp on the tee. Now cut off the cylindrical barrel on one end of the 160mm hose, and use it as a short coupling hose to connect the bottom of the tee to the pump discharge, slip on and tighten an 11 hose clamp.
4) Cut a vee into one end of the 236mm long hose. Hold the hose such that this vee is upwards and squeeze the hose into an oval cross-section for about 2/3 of its length. If you don’t slightly deform the hose in this fashion it is almost impossible to insert it into the return fuel slot of the lower canister; insert it now, such that the vee is up, and the hose reaches the inside bottom of the lower canister. This is the suction hose.
5) Slip on an 11 hose clamp, then insert the black end of the check valve into the suction hose.
6) Take a 27mm long piece of the thickwall 5/16” tubing, slip on both 14 clamps, and insert one end into the white end of the check valve, the other end into one of the opposed barbs on the tee.
7) Put an 11 hose clamp on and then insert the other opposed barb of the tee into the discharge hose.
8) Put an 11 hose clamp on and insert the bottom leg of the tee into the pump discharge.
9) Leaving the hose clamps loose until now has allowed you to rotate the components to minimize stresses on the hose and canister, and prevent kinks. Now tighten all hose clamps, ensuring that they do not rub on any wire or hose, even when the top of the canister is pushed down.

This mod leaves the check valve projecting out one side past the canister wall. This makes it tricky to insert – insert the bottom canister leaving the top sticking out of the tank, move the assembly sideways, finagle the check valve under the lip, then put on the seal ring and insert the top part of the canister into the tank.

These components cost about $30, when done in bulk, but the hose clamps and barbs only come in bags of 10, raising the cost to about $52 to get enough stuff shipped to you to make one assembly.

Again my recommendation is to leave your pump in the original configuration, or restore it to the original configuration.

For the record, I still suggest that no one modifies their fuel pump.

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atownbrg

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2016
Location
SLO County CA
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI 5 speed
DanG
So if one wants to retrofit a lift pump to an alh, you would recommend an "inline" type of pump rather than an "in tank"?
Have you any experience with a reliable inline pump to mention?
Thanks
Pete
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I would highly recommend the same pump the BEW uses. It is a very good pump, with great features. IDparts and Boraparts (probably others as well) used to offer relay and wiring kits for this. In fact I would go to the junkyard and get one of the OEM ones, and plan to put a replacement motor and pump in it if required.

If you go with an inline pump, it needs to be diesel rated, and it should have a low discharge pressure, say 6 to 15 psi, and pump 60 gallons per hour. These are usually cheaper.

I would ensure it was wired so that when the engine died, so did the lift pump.
 

jon.zaimes

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2001
Location
Felton, Delaware, USA
Lift pump failed in 2005 TDI GLS

Have a 2005 Jetta TDI GLS (Mark 4) with BEW engine. Purchased used at 116K miles (replacing 2009 that just went back to VW). Have put about 2k miles on it in past 6 weeks without problems and yesterday the engine suddenly just quit while driving about 25 mph.
Was able to pull over and opened the hood. There was small amount of diesel on top of the fuel filter canister, and when I opened the return line (removing the spring clip) there was no fuel showing above the filter element. Some did drip out when I opened the bleed valve on bottom.
After cranking about 30 seconds or so the engine would start (sometimes sooner) and I made several stops and similar restarts before I got it home.
After reviewing this and related threads on the topic, I am not hearing the lift pump run when I turn the key. I do measure 12 volts at the pump connector for a few seconds when I turn the key. But an ohmmeter test shows the pump winding is open.
Records from previous owner indicate the pump was replaced in December 2015. Likely about 10-15K miles ago, mileage wasn't recorded on invoice.
Likely is an aftermarket replacement -- no part number showing on the grey top and I haven't pulled it from the tank yet.
Can just the motor be replaced on these aftermarket models?
Would there be some other issue that would cause this to fail in this short a time?
And how can I be sure to get the right replacement? I've seen conflicting info on several sites when I searched.
Hoses to the fuel filter appear to be originals and I'll likely replace to make sure there's not an air leak there, although they appear in OK shape.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I don't know why it would fail in such a short time. Most of them last very well. The one's that you get from thetdiwagonguy are made by good folks.

I know of no aftermarket source for the pump/motor for the replacement models.
 

shoebear

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
TDI
1998 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon, 2005 New Beetle, 2013 Sportwagen
Is my pump damaged/missing a part?

Hey Dan (or anyone else who can help) -- a family member filled my 2005 NB TDi with gas a couple of days ago. I spent the day today draining the tank, disposing of the contaminated fuel, purging the fuel lines, and running fresh diesel through. In the process, I discovered that my 1J0919050B tank lift pump is bad. I'm considering rebuilding it, but it looks to me like it's missing a part and also damaged -- so probably not worth rebuilding.

Suspected problems:

  • I think (from photos in this thread) that there should be a tube running from the top plate to the lower bucket -- coaxial with the spring and contained inside it. If so -- this tube is missing on my pump.
  • The plastic flange beneath the top plate where said tube would theoretically attach is cracked.
  • There is a loose, free-floating gizmo that appears to be some kind of check valve rattling around where the bottom of the missing tube to go. Without a tube to push on it, I can't see that this valve would do anything at all. There is a red rubber valve piece at the top that could come out, float around loose, and cause problems.
Photo:


Can you shed any light on my hypotheses?

Thanks!
 
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Wilkins

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Location
British Columbia
TDI
05 Jetta Wagon 5sp, 10 Sportwagen 6MT
I rebuilt mine a few years ago and took a few pictures. Have to see if there is a tube but I definitely don't recall it looking like what you have. No red valve I can remember.
Now to find the pics.
 

shoebear

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
TDI
1998 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon, 2005 New Beetle, 2013 Sportwagen
OK, so the mystery valve is the return check valve AND the missing tube, like this:



Thanks to Mike (TDIWagonGuy) for pointing this out.

So the mystery is solved. There's still the issue of the cracks in the return flange, but I'm thinking a hose clamp could solve that.
 

dzljedi

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
2003 jetta
There are a lot of grounds the can cause problems. You did the right thing by doing the "Due Diligence" by throughly trouble shooting your problem. We found out at the last Asheville GTG that not all lift pump problem are due to a bad liftpump one car we worked on didn't have any power going to it ends up the fuse for the liftpump was missing in the fusebox. The car had been running fine but when we did a Diesel Purge injector clean the loop back line on the fuel filter showed no fuel being moved by the pump. The tandem pump had been doing all the work moving the fuel from the tank.
where and what is the # that identifies the fuse for said pump on a 2003 jetta?
 

Filmshoot

Active member
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Location
NORCAL
TDI
1.9TDI AFN
Does anyone know of a longer pd lift pump? Or a way to extend the pd lift pump so it reaches the bottom of my eurovan fuel tank? Right now it is only reaching midlevel of the tank. My original vdo diesel sending unit part number is 220805001003, but unfortunately it is not a lift pump, just a fuel gauge float... I really want an intank lift pump

...just tapped out with a thumb or 2, please don't mind the abbreviations and grammatical faults.
 

Filmshoot

Active member
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Location
NORCAL
TDI
1.9TDI AFN
Yes outside USA

...just tapped out with a thumb or 2, please don't mind the abbreviations and grammatical faults.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Yes outside USA

...just tapped out with a thumb or 2, please don't mind the abbreviations and grammatical faults.
I couldn't find it on Rock Auto (European page if Bing was right).
Only looked like a v6 gas.
Maybe a dealer could look it up or a user here that's not in the US with access?
I'm sure there are vendors here that can ship to the US.
 

dweisel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
Does anyone know of a longer pd lift pump? Or a way to extend the pd lift pump so it reaches the bottom of my eurovan fuel tank? Right now it is only reaching midlevel of the tank. My original vdo diesel sending unit part number is 220805001003, but unfortunately it is not a lift pump, just a fuel gauge float... I really want an intank lift pump

...just tapped out with a thumb or 2, please don't mind the abbreviations and grammatical faults.
PM SENT

dweisel
 

FleTDI

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2010
Location
Canada
TDI
2005 Jetta wagon TDI
Fuel system testing 2005 BEW

Your pump can sound like its running and still not be supplying fuel.

In-Tank Lift Pump:
  1. Take off the supply line from the fuel canister to the tandem pump. Put it in a jar. Cycle your key to ON, not start, a couple of times. Your pump should....
    Quote]

    My GAWD, You guys are so awesome!!!!
    Thank you!
    Fleamer
 

mur3633

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Location
Podgorica, Montenegro
TDI
Mk4 PD TDI
I read the whole topic, this is excellent!

My pump is 1J0 919 050 VDO from 2000.
On ignition I got about 50cc, while at 12V, 2 Litres per minute.
Cleaned screen, it was dirty, now getting 2.2 Liters.

Is it bad lift pump?

Also can I take motor from petrol lift pump? Is it same as diesel?
Not whole unit, just motor (electric part)

My Mk4 has long cold start especially when stays for 1-2 days or more, changed 3 tandem pumps, complete head with injectors seats and seals
 
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Trailbum

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2009
Location
Woodland Park, CO
TDI
2004 Jetta
Excellent post, I've read all thirteen pages of it!!!
For the past two months, I've noticed my '04 Jetta is cranking a bit longer before starting..
I initially thought it might be a glow plug issue, but after reading this post, I was pretty certain that I have a failed lift pump.
With 420,000 miles on the clock, that pump might have died years ago!! We bought the car in '06 with 15,000 miles on it, so I'm absolutely certain it's still the original pump (has the tan top).
I verified no flow from the filter, when cycling the key "on" a number of times. Removed the access panel under the back seat, and no sign of life at the lift motor when cycling the key on. I removed the electrical connector to the pump and jumped 12 volts to it, and still no sign of life. I do get the momentary 12 volts at the electrical connector when I cycle the key "on".
OK, so my question is..... How do I safely remove the two fuel line connectors from the top of the pump assembly, without damaging or breaking them???
Thanks in advance,
Bill
 
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