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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old September 11th, 2018, 08:44   #16
flargabarg
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Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
It has always been puzzling to me why anyone would bother to use these air filters in the first place, as they do NOTHING positive, and you cannot force feed a tiny little turbocharger by installing one anyway.
I think there are two possibilities. First is the possibility of saving literally dozens of dollars over the life of the car. The other is that people really enjoy being able to feel the success of doing something to make a thing they own better. It's part of the pride of ownership.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 09:31   #17
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"dozens"... I see what you did there....

Let me tell ya, if replacing a $15 air filter every 60k miles puts anyone in the poor house, a Volkswagen is NOT the right car to own.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 11:17   #18
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Originally Posted by KITEWAGON View Post
I would take this up with K&N. [...] "K&N and the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act protect consumers from such denied warranty claims. When you buy a K&N OE replacement filter or air intake system you can be confident your vehicle's warranty will remain in effect. If you encounter a dealership that wants to void your warranty because of one of our products, K&N will resolve the issue so you won't have to.
NorCalTDI79, you should make sure you hold K&N's feet to the fire on this, and let them know that you will be following up with the Attorney General's office should it prove that you were deceived by their advertising claims.
You should probably also approach you conversations with VWoA couched in the fact that the warranty is to be resolved in favor of you the consumer (assuming that you did have the fix done on your car) and that their implication that you have to use their part to meet a warranty condition is in violation of federal law.
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(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by CommissionNo warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.
There is no doubt that the cards will be stacked against you, but there is equally no doubt that it is in your own best interest to make sure that you are not left holding the bag.
... and then you can start using a real filter again
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Old September 11th, 2018, 13:05   #19
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Originally Posted by Dannyboy View Post
Depending on what type of K&N he has, that's a double edged sword. He has to have CARB approve the modification even though it's rock filter....er I mean air filter
Probably land him in deep water, I know cali regs have come down hard on modification of any type. Also been a TDI after the scandal the chances of it being approved are slim to none
OP mentioned a drop in filter with the stock air box. K&N states these filters are emissions legal. It certainly can't hurt to report this incident to CARB and the EPA.

The EPA and CARB approved emissions remedy for the Gen 1 2.0L requires VW to fulfill several requirements.

Last edited by drsven; September 11th, 2018 at 13:12.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 18:53   #20
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Originally Posted by drsven View Post
OP mentioned a drop in filter with the stock air box. K&N states these filters are emissions legal. It certainly can't hurt to report this incident to CARB and the EPA.

The EPA and CARB approved emissions remedy for the Gen 1 2.0L requires VW to fulfill several requirements.
Thank you for the responses. This is a regular drop in K&N filter in the factory air box assembly that I have.

Here's today's response from the case manager at VW of America after I sent her a copy of the Magnuson & Moss Warranty Act and mentioned going to CARB with this.

"I am sorry that you are disappointed in the outcome.

The position of Volkswagen would not change. The use of aftermarket air filters is not supported as the system was designed and calibrated to work with factory air filters. Use of aftermarket air filters such as cotton bed steel mesh or cone style, can cause the MAF sensor to not read accurately, affecting vehicle performance and critical monitoring functions for the diesel particulate filter. At this point it has been determined the failure is due to your aftermarket air filter and repairs would not be covered under warranty.

You are welcome to seek resources outside of Volkswagen as you see fit, but it was determined that the failure is due to outside influence"

I have seen several cases on these message boards where the DPF filter failed on bone stock vehicles. So them telling me that the system failed because of the K&N filter is absolute rubbish.

Granted it is my own fault for putting in the K&N Filter and I take responsibility for that.

Last edited by NorCalTDI79; September 11th, 2018 at 21:05.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 20:53   #21
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So pursue it with K&N . . . VW has given you written evidence that they blame K&N for not only tne warranty denial, but also the failure. If nothing else,getting the two of them to have a run at each other should prove entertaining, and it does seem that you have, in writing, all you need to pursue a claim with K&N . . .
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Old September 11th, 2018, 21:45   #22
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Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
However, given the all-too-common issue of the DPF cracking (Volkswagen has a TSB about this, nothing new), and the fact that there is pretty much zero chances of an aftermarket air filter causing this*, I don't know what to say. Besides, no idea why the dealer would really care one way or the other, Volkswagen is the one footing the bill, and it isn't likely they are requesting the old air filter from the car.
This is a good take. I'd say goodbye to that dealer if you have any other options . They clearly aren't looking out for you. I think this is just BS treatment from the dealer. They should be taking care of their customer and getting paid by VWOA for their trouble.

One other avenue that seems reasonable to pursue would be the class council. The "fix" was installed only 8k ago. How do we know that the extra stress of all those regens didn't kill it the DPF (I'm kidding here, but my reasoning is just as sound as VW dismissing you over a non-oem air filter). The purpose of that nice extended emissions warranty was to protect the consumers from whatever extra hardships the systems experienced as a result of VW's fix. I think its total BS and they are grasping at straws here to deny your warranty. Its not like you had some big aftermarket air intake installed.

I am really curious to see what K&N's take on this issue is as well.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 06:10   #23
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Rough story here.

One thing that is throwing me is the code dealer gave. Usually a cracked DPF will throw a P0401 for low EGR flow. P2002 is of inefficient DPF, it may be just a bad sensor, read up.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=487141

looks like another one had P2002 and a K&N filter/intake as well, and he wen't all lawyer and got it replaced.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...17&postcount=5

This wouldn't be the first time a dealer misdiagnosed an issue. Maybe there are other codes stored as well who knows. I guess you are seeing soot on the exhaust so maybe it is a cracked DPF.

As for the OP, you mentioned you performed all the oil changes and the car is now at 90K, do you happen to know what oil you were using for these Oil changes? Was it 507 spec?


Worse case an independent shop should be able to swap that DPF way cheaper than that dealer is quoting.
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Last edited by 740GLE; September 12th, 2018 at 06:52.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 07:09   #24
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Originally Posted by KITEWAGON View Post
This is a good take. I'd say goodbye to that dealer if you have any other options . They clearly aren't looking out for you. I think this is just BS treatment from the dealer. They should be taking care of their customer and getting paid by VWOA for their trouble.

The explanation is that OP, by his own admission, almost never darkened the dealer’s door, except when he was getting something for free. Did he even buy the vehicle from them? So, no mystery that the dealer service department would rather do oil changes and sell tires to other customers at a huge markup, than get a fixed amount to do this work for him. We’re in Northern California, right? Dealer probably has plenty to fill its service bays.

Again: it’s not the dealer’s job to jump to do favors for mediocre customers. All that said, I think OP would prevail ultimately in a legal fight to get VW to pay for this work.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 07:42   #25
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Originally Posted by Mythdoc View Post
I think OP would prevail ultimately in a legal fight to get VW to pay for this work.
Eventually, maybe. Depends on how long VW wants to fight this and the OP's desire to keep pursuing it. It could take some time and money and lawyers to get something done.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 10:16   #26
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Originally Posted by drsven View Post
OP mentioned a drop in filter with the stock air box. K&N states these filters are emissions legal. It certainly can't hurt to report this incident to CARB and the EPA.

The EPA and CARB approved emissions remedy for the Gen 1 2.0L requires VW to fulfill several requirements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 740GLE View Post
Rough story here.

One thing that is throwing me is the code dealer gave. Usually a cracked DPF will throw a P0401 for low EGR flow. P2002 is of inefficient DPF, it may be just a bad sensor, read up.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=487141

looks like another one had P2002 and a K&N filter/intake as well, and he wen't all lawyer and got it replaced.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...17&postcount=5

This wouldn't be the first time a dealer misdiagnosed an issue. Maybe there are other codes stored as well who knows. I guess you are seeing soot on the exhaust so maybe it is a cracked DPF.

As for the OP, you mentioned you performed all the oil changes and the car is now at 90K, do you happen to know what oil you were using for these Oil changes? Was it 507 spec?


Worse case an independent shop should be able to swap that DPF way cheaper than that dealer is quoting.
Always changed the oil between 5-6k religiously with Total or Liqui Moly 507 spec motor oil. Also used Opti Lube diesel additive every fill up. All fluids flushed. Coolant, brake, etc, ahead of dealers recommendations and they have this one file at Folsom Lake VW. This dealer is short of anything impressive.

Here are the Techs notes, from the diagnosis:

-checked and found engine light on
-ran GFF checked faults
-P2002 particulate trap bank 1 efficiency below threshold
-checked soot level of DPF, 91ml ok
-checked and found soot in tailpipe,
-removed EGR filter and found soot
-performed visual inspection of exhaust, intake and charge pipes; no leaks found
-performed EGR flow test and found system ok
-did find aftermarket engine air filter (K&N)
-vw declined repairs at this time.

Car is worth appx. 11k on kbb. This one is fully loaded, 6MT, Nav, keyless start, 18in rims, bi-xenon lights, etc

Thanks!
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Old September 12th, 2018, 11:04   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drsven View Post
OP mentioned a drop in filter with the stock air box. K&N states these filters are emissions legal. It certainly can't hurt to report this incident to CARB and the EPA.

The EPA and CARB approved emissions remedy for the Gen 1 2.0L requires VW to fulfill several requirements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 740GLE View Post
Rough story here.

One thing that is throwing me is the code dealer gave. Usually a cracked DPF will throw a P0401 for low EGR flow. P2002 is of inefficient DPF, it may be just a bad sensor, read up.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=487141

looks like another one had P2002 and a K&N filter/intake as well, and he wen't all lawyer and got it replaced.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...17&postcount=5

This wouldn't be the first time a dealer misdiagnosed an issue. Maybe there are other codes stored as well who knows. I guess you are seeing soot on the exhaust so maybe it is a cracked DPF.

As for the OP, you mentioned you performed all the oil changes and the car is now at 90K, do you happen to know what oil you were using for these Oil changes? Was it 507 spec?


Worse case an independent shop should be able to swap that DPF way cheaper than that dealer is quoting.
Always changes the oil between 5-6k religiusly with Total or Liqui Moly 507 spoc motor oil. Also used Opti Lube diesel additive every fill up. All fluids flushed. Coolant, brake, etc, ahead of dealers recommendations and they have this one file at Folsom Lake VW.

Here are the Techs notes, from the diagnosis:

-checked and found engine light on
-ran GFF checked faults
-P2002 particulate trap bank 1 efficiency below threshold
-checked soot level of DPF, 91ml ok
-checked and found soot in tailpipe,
-removed EGR filter and found soot
-performed visual inspection of exhaust, intake and charge pipes; no leaks found
-performed EGR flow test and found system ok
-did find aftermarket engine air filter (K&N)
-vw declined repairs at this time.

Car is worth appx. 11k on kbb. This one is fully loaded, 6MT, Nav, keyless start, 18in rims, bi-xenon lights, etc

Thanks!
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Old September 12th, 2018, 17:14   #28
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Another response from the case manager at VW.


I hope you’re having a great day.

Given your last email, I wanted to offer further clarification. I am under the impression that you feel your warranty has been voided and that is not the case.

You still have factory warranty extensions on your Golf TDI that cover manufacturer's shortcomings in materials or workmanship. However, the warranty would not cover the failure of a component due to outside influence.

As previously stated, The use of aftermarket air filters is not supported as the system was designed and calibrated to work with factory air filters. Use of aftermarket air filters, such as cotton bed steel mesh or cone style, can cause the MAF sensor to not read accurately, affecting vehicle performance and critical monitoring functions for the diesel particulate filter. Since your aftermarket air filter is the cause of your diesel particulate filter failure, warranty coverage would not be applicable to the replacement of your diesel particulate filter. This has nothing against the quality of the air filter used, nor the brand. It is caused because the system was designed and calibrated to work with factory air filters.

To find information on your TDI extended warranty, you can go to www.vwcourtsettlement.com. From there you will select “2.0L Vehicle” option and scroll down to “Court Documents, Forms & Notices” . The next steps would be to click “Approved Emissions Modifications” and choose the appropriate notice for your Generation 1 Golf TDI. There is also two additional extended warranties; one for the Diesel High Pressure Fuel Pump, valid until 4/13/2022 or 120,000 miles whichever occurs first, and the other is for the Exhaust Flap Warranty which is also valid until 4/13/2022 or 120,000 miles whichever occurs first.

Thank you for your time.


Sincerely,


Cassandra B

Region Case Manager
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Old September 12th, 2018, 17:52   #29
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Originally Posted by drsven View Post
OP mentioned a drop in filter with the stock air box. K&N states these filters are emissions legal. It certainly can't hurt to report this incident to CARB and the EPA.

The EPA and CARB approved emissions remedy for the Gen 1 2.0L requires VW to fulfill several requirements.
I did see on K&N site that they are apperently legal but half of there stuff isn't so I wouldnt be surprised if it wasn't actually the case. Probably legal on engines that don't use MAF sensors as it doesn't have a delicate sensor for oil to coat.

Customer modification made MAF readings inaccurate
which ultimately 'caused' the DPF to crack is pretty much what VW is going to send on statement to CARB and they will probably agree.

I'd get K&N on the blower and tell them to put there money where their mouth is on their " Does not void warranty"claim
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Old September 12th, 2018, 20:45   #30
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Funny part is that K&N Engineering is located less than 5 miles away from the new CARB HQ site under construction in Riverside.

Last edited by drsven; September 12th, 2018 at 20:51.
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