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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+)

VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) Discussion area for the 2012+ Passat TDI (North American and rest of world versions versions). The North American model was previously codenamed NMS (New Midsize Sedan) and the version the rest of the world gets is sometimes referred to as B7.

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Old November 5th, 2013, 13:37   #1
DieselBrownie
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Default Lifter noise on cold startup.

Hey folks, I Just thought I'd pass along some info about an ongoing situation with my car, in case you're having the same symptoms.

My '13 passat TDI has been exhibiting a noise on cold start-up that sounds a lot like a collapsed lifter. This began right around my 10k service and I'm currently just over 20k miles. Upon a few visits to VW, (and them "not finding the problem,") I decided to make a youtube video of the elusive sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unDplH7Ago4

In the dealer's defense, the sound didn't present itself every morning as loud as you hear in the video, but it was there none the less. I was a mechanic for about 10 years, and recognized the sound right off, but I'm sure the service department talks to lots of "mechanics" who bring their car in for service.

Upon showing the service department my video, I was given a loan car, and have been in said loan car for about two weeks now. I was called last Friday by the service manager and told that VWOA's area technical representative had authorized a set of tappets to ordered and subsequently installed in my car, which should be completed sometime this week.

When I first came across this problem, I searched this forum for similar occurrences, but only found instances of the AdBlue solenoid doing its purge at start up. As you'll see in the video, this noise is quite different, and occurs concurrently with the solenoid's noise. I'm hoping that this is a rare and limited occurrence, but in the case that it is not, I'd like it documented here for others to search and see.

I'll likely have my car back soon, and I'll give an update on whether or not this fixes the problem.

-Matt
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Old November 5th, 2013, 13:58   #2
unixb0y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselBrownie View Post
Hey folks, I Just thought I'd pass along some info about an ongoing situation with my car, in case you're having the same symptoms.

My '13 passat TDI has been exhibiting a noise on cold start-up that sounds a lot like a collapsed lifter. This began right around my 10k service and I'm currently just over 20k miles. Upon a few visits to VW, (and them "not finding the problem,") I decided to make a youtube video of the elusive sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unDplH7Ago4

In the dealer's defense, the sound didn't present itself every morning as loud as you hear in the video, but it was there none the less. I was a mechanic for about 10 years, and recognized the sound right off, but I'm sure the service department talks to lots of "mechanics" who bring their car in for service.

Upon showing the service department my video, I was given a loan car, and have been in said loan car for about two weeks now. I was called last Friday by the service manager and told that VWOA's area technical representative had authorized a set of tappets to ordered and subsequently installed in my car, which should be completed sometime this week.

When I first came across this problem, I searched this forum for similar occurrences, but only found instances of the AdBlue solenoid doing its purge at start up. As you'll see in the video, this noise is quite different, and occurs concurrently with the solenoid's noise. I'm hoping that this is a rare and limited occurrence, but in the case that it is not, I'd like it documented here for others to search and see.

I'll likely have my car back soon, and I'll give an update on whether or not this fixes the problem.

-Matt
People have mentioned in the past the the DEF pump makes a clicking sound when purging the air from the def lines.

Does your ticking sound go away?
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Old November 5th, 2013, 14:34   #3
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If that were an ALH TDI, I'd say it was compression blowing past an injector seal. Did you pull the top cover off to see where the noise was coming from (a piece of hose works great)?
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Old November 5th, 2013, 15:07   #4
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what are these tappets?
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Old November 5th, 2013, 15:23   #5
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Originally Posted by ChadS99SVT View Post
what are these tappets?
Something that the CKRA engine doesn't technically have. But the idea is the same, it has HLAs (Hydraulic Lash Adjusters) under the end of the roller rockers.

My ETKA is down right now, so I can't tell you exactly what VAG calls them.

Of course, right from the book in the lash adjuster section it states "irregular valve noises are normal when starting the engine" and then they give a simple procedure for checking them. But this involves running the engine for 2 minutes at 2500 RPMs.
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Last edited by oilhammer; November 5th, 2013 at 15:26.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 15:47   #6
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Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
Something that the CKRA engine doesn't technically have. But the idea is the same, it has HLAs (Hydraulic Lash Adjusters) under the end of the roller rockers.

My ETKA is down right now, so I can't tell you exactly what VAG calls them.

Of course, right from the book in the lash adjuster section it states "irregular valve noises are normal when starting the engine" and then they give a simple procedure for checking them. But this involves running the engine for 2 minutes at 2500 RPMs.
so is what he is experiencing an actual problem? (may be hard to say).

for some reason I think my car might make this noise but not really sure. I will be listening for it now.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 15:50   #7
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Ours has occasional lifter tick on startup. It doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason and it's been doing it for quite a while... fortunately it goes away quickly so I'm not too worried about it.

I also noticed this on GeekDrew's car.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 16:20   #8
DieselBrownie
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Originally Posted by unixb0y View Post
People have mentioned in the past the the DEF pump makes a clicking sound when purging the air from the def lines.

Does your ticking sound go away?
It does. This sound lasts anywhere from 1-3 minutes, depending on how fast the car warms up.

*Edit: The lash adjuster sound goes away. I'm familiar with the sounds the after treatment systems make, and I indeed have those sounds as well. This particular sound is RPM dependent, at 1/2 crankshaft speed.
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Last edited by DieselBrownie; November 5th, 2013 at 16:39. Reason: details
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Old November 5th, 2013, 16:23   #9
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Originally Posted by gforce1108 View Post
If that were an ALH TDI, I'd say it was compression blowing past an injector seal. Did you pull the top cover off to see where the noise was coming from (a piece of hose works great)?
I pulled the cover off to put a stethoscope to it, just to try and get an idea of where it was coming from. There was no change in driveability whatsoever, and it just had that loose valve sound!

Besides, at 20k, this baby is VW's to fix.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 16:25   #10
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I experience a similar sound when starting mine up in the morning. Goes away after a few min. I just chalk it up to cold engine as my previous gasser did the same thing.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 16:27   #11
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It's important to distinguish between the AdBlue injector's normal clicking and actual valvetrain noise. Make sure you know which one you're talking about. AdBlue injector is perfectly normal, while valvetrain noise is questionable, although it has been reported by several people so far.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 16:36   #12
DieselBrownie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
Something that the CKRA engine doesn't technically have. But the idea is the same, it has HLAs (Hydraulic Lash Adjusters) under the end of the roller rockers.

My ETKA is down right now, so I can't tell you exactly what VAG calls them.

Of course, right from the book in the lash adjuster section it states "irregular valve noises are normal when starting the engine" and then they give a simple procedure for checking them. But this involves running the engine for 2 minutes at 2500 RPMs.

Thanks for the reply! I thought you might have a better idea how this system worked... Having never pulled the valve cover on one of these newer engines, I was curious as to how this was all set up. The service manager called it a tappet, and being overhead cam I figured it had some sort of hydraulic follower (like what you used to see on Chrysler products.) Is it more similar to a shim bucket (like what you commonly see on Asian cylinder heads?)

I don't doubt VW would write this as normal in the manual (typical car manufacturer behavior,) as there's no telling what sort of warranty claim this is generating. It'd be one thing if the noise went away as soon as oil pressure developed, and if all 16 lash adjusters did it, but it's only one, it's super loud, and it takes several minutes to pump it up.

It kind of reminds me of when Toyota was blaming the customers for their v-6's sludging up, saying it was a lack of maintenance (despite perfect records from customers.) It took many a lawsuit to turn all that around, to what became the great technician money-maker of the early 2000's.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 16:49   #13
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Originally Posted by VeeDubTDI View Post
It's important to distinguish between the AdBlue injector's normal clicking and actual valvetrain noise. Make sure you know which one you're talking about. AdBlue injector is perfectly normal, while valvetrain noise is questionable, although it has been reported by several people so far.
It's pretty easy to distinguish, as the sound I'm complaining about is RPM dependent, at 1/2 speed of the engine. It really stuck out to me, because I worked for a GM shop back when they were in the habit of putting ****ty roller lifters in their v-8's. Symptoms were nearly identical, and I couldn't tell you how many sets I put in! Needless to say, I was disappointed when I heard this sound coming out of my new car. Then again, any car can be built on a Monday...
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Old November 5th, 2013, 19:04   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubTDI View Post
Ours has occasional lifter tick on startup. It doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason and it's been doing it for quite a while... fortunately it goes away quickly so I'm not too worried about it.

I also noticed this on GeekDrew's car.
Yeah I'm thinking I've heard something similar but just started mine after sitting for close to 24 hrs and it sounded solid.

I will keep an ear out.
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Old November 5th, 2013, 23:51   #15
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Wife leaves 30 minutes before I do and every morning I watch her and my 3yr old back out of the garage- the ad blue pump sounds more like a bad belt than a lifter. No lifter sounds on mine yet.
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