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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old September 24th, 2018, 11:09   #106
littlefoot09
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Kingsland, GA
Fuel Economy: was averaging 42 before the emissions fix, now its down to 32-35
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I had the fix accomplished last august. Heater core was blocked before the fix. Had the fix accomplished by VW and the heater core replaced by my local shop. Threw the P2457 code after the fix and heater core replacement. Still had very little heat in the car. Fought and fought with VW and they finally replaced the EGR cooler under warranty. The car is still eating coolant and I can hear fluid running through the dash or heater core.....Going back tomorrow for another diagnostic.
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Old September 24th, 2018, 18:06   #107
93celicaconv
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Originally Posted by littlefoot09 View Post
I had the fix accomplished last august. Heater core was blocked before the fix. Had the fix accomplished by VW and the heater core replaced by my local shop. Threw the P2457 code after the fix and heater core replacement. Still had very little heat in the car. Fought and fought with VW and they finally replaced the EGR cooler under warranty. The car is still eating coolant and I can hear fluid running through the dash or heater core.....Going back tomorrow for another diagnostic.
What do you mean, exactly, by "The car is still eating coolant?"

Did your local shop provide you a new heater core, or did they attempt to flush the old heater core?

Cooling system clogging in these years of TDI's happened because of a manufacturing defect of the heater core, were joining flux was not properly removed, causing the residual flux to react with the coolant and turn it from a slightly basic solution to an acidic solution - and the process or neutralizing the coolant involves multiple system flushes to rid the system of any remaining flux residue. Anything less usually results in continued core clogging. Your dealer shop would have known this. Why did you take it to a local shop for repair? I believe VW was providing some kind of customer satisfaction reimbursement when the clogging event happens (not sure if the total cost was absorbed by VW, or part of it, but at least part of it was and the process to remedy (if done properly) would resolve future occurrences).
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Old September 25th, 2018, 05:40   #108
littlefoot09
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Kingsland, GA
Fuel Economy: was averaging 42 before the emissions fix, now its down to 32-35
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93celicaconv, the heater core was blocked before the fix. The A/C was intermittent at the time and I was getting a low coolant light occasionally. They told me 1100 for the heater core, 1800 for the A/C, 1400 for the radiator and that my turbo was on the way out and that was another 2800. And they happily told me I could use my restitution money for the repairs. I wanted a second opinion. I also had an occasional CEL for a cracked DPF. When I dropped it off I had no codes and they said they would do the fix. So, had the fix accomplished and then had my local shop that is only 10 miles from me give me a second opinion and do the remaining work.

The local shop originally said the radiator was good and that the turbo sounded normal. Two weeks later they were replacing the radiator on their dime. They showed me the old heater core with the top cut off full of sludge when I went to pick it up. Still no issues with the turbo and by the extended warranty I believe it is covered for the additional 40,000 miles.

Once the local shop got the car back running, still no heat in the car, I threw a CEL for the glow plug control module.

VW wanted me to pay for the replacement originally. They had marked on the hood sticker that it had been replaced and told me it wasn't covered. They finally replaced it and it didn't cost me anything. About a week later I threw a CEL for the EGR insufficient flow and somehow convinced them to replace the EGR cooler. After it had been back to the local shop and back to VW multiple times each one blaming eeach others work. Once the EGR cooler was replaced I've had heat ever since.

Before the EGR cooler was replaced though I had a weird popping noise in the dash/heater core area. Since the EGR cooler has been replaced I have had the constant sound of fluid running through the dash. VW has replaced the heater hoses twice and claim they have flushed the system multiple times and still cannot get the flowing noise to stop. Their last report said the following

"Audible sound of coolant running through heater after cold start. Found slight dried coolant residue on heater hose coming from EGR cooler. EGR cooler and heater core previously replaced. Replaced damaged hoses and pressure tested, vacuum filled cooling system. Noise eliminated when engine warm, A/C and heater working fine. Solid debris still left in coolant system from previous contamination with incorrect coolant or oil. Possible head gasket damage from previous overheating of engine. Possible debris still stuck in coolant lines running through firewall or in new heater core itself."

As far as the "eating coolant", I got a low coolant warning the other day. Added about 8 ounces of coolant and have been monitoring. With the engine cold I've toped off the coolant bottle with coolant. I drive 50 miles to work. Basically hear fluid running through the heater core the whole drive. After the car sits for 8 to 10 hours I'll check it before my ride home. The coolant is well below the full mark of a cold engine. Probably about 1/4 full. As I loosen the cap you can hear the pressure relieve and the coolant bubbles and fills up to about 4-6 ounces below the full mark. I top it off and head home. Same thing the next morning.

I had another VW dealership look at it at the recommendation of VW customer support and they told me it was normal and replaced the pollen filter. So, back to the VW shop that did the work and hopefully get it straightened out this time.......
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Old October 13th, 2018, 11:25   #109
Wildrabbit79
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Canada
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I have multitude of problems after Phase 2 as well.
I would have never purchased this vehicle if it ran like it does now. VW could have never sold a vehicle with problems in the Phase 2.
Get in touch with the class action lawyers.
In your article that gave you options for a decision on the Phase 1 and Phase 2
read carefully, " The Phase 2 updates are expected to have no further impact on overall vehicle reliability, durability, fuel economy, engine sound, performance or driveability."
That quote from the agreement must be legally bound. I have three of those promises that are not given to me. Therefore the court will question what VW is going to do now that they are not giving the settlement aggreement that they are legally bound to administer to the customers.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 09:06   #110
flargabarg
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How is a cooling system problem related to the fix? They are not connected systems. The closest they get is still separated unless you have a failed EGR cooler, which can be diagnosed and fixed.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 10:03   #111
93celicaconv
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How is a cooling system problem related to the fix? They are not connected systems. The closest they get is still separated unless you have a failed EGR cooler, which can be diagnosed and fixed.
Your post is a bit vague. If "the fix" means the emissions modification(s), the engine coolant takes heat away from the EGR cooler heat exchanger, so the "systems" are connected. Compromised coolant (which goes from slightly alkaline to acidic) corrodes that which the coolant contacts. So contaminated coolant or a coolant that is worn down due to time (lost its ability to maintain a slightly alkaline pH level) affects all that it contacts, especially the heat exchangers. So I see a heavy relationship here.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 11:34   #112
flargabarg
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If the coolant system is sealed the coolant does not use up the additive package very quickly, and if something compromised that seal it needs to be corrected and the system replaced with fresh coolant. This is not going to happen so quickly because of extra heat in the EGR system. It requires an unrelated mechanical fault. This is like blaming the emissions modification for your battery needing earlier replacement due to extra heat in the engine compartment. You might be able to find a connection but it is tenuous at best.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 12:35   #113
93celicaconv
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If the coolant system is sealed the coolant does not use up the additive package very quickly, and if something compromised that seal it needs to be corrected and the system replaced with fresh coolant. This is not going to happen so quickly because of extra heat in the EGR system. It requires an unrelated mechanical fault. This is like blaming the emissions modification for your battery needing earlier replacement due to extra heat in the engine compartment. You might be able to find a connection but it is tenuous at best.
In the 2009 on up VW world, your assumption "If the coolant system is sealed the coolant does not use up the additive package very quickly" is not correct. Many threads on this site that talk about residual flux used in the manufacturing process to seal heat exchanger cores not being properly flushed out - the residual flux reacts with the coolant over a relatively short period of time to cause the coolant to go acidic, and that is when the corrosion issue starts. VW has a TSB on this issue with when the situation gets bad enough to cause problems with heater cores. TDI's exasperate this issue by having added heat load on the coolant due to EGR cooling requirements (at least I think this to be the case). Your best bet is to get coolant pH test strips and periodically test the coolant pH. My 2015 TDI back in 2017, with only 11k miles on it then, I tested for coolant pH and it was neutral then (indicating the additive package to keep the coolant slightly alkaline was gone). So it went in for a coolant flush are refill service. I had the VW service center do it twice because of this known problem (in an effort to get most of the remaining flux out), but will be checking pH quarterly to keep monitoring it.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 17:30   #114
flargabarg
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That is absurd. My last TDI, you changed the coolant when you did the timing belt and water pump, and did not worry about it. This seems like a substantial design fault. Coolant is a solved problem for a lot of brands, including older VWs.
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Old October 15th, 2018, 17:43   #115
93celicaconv
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Originally Posted by flargabarg View Post
That is absurd. My last TDI, you changed the coolant when you did the timing belt and water pump, and did not worry about it. This seems like a substantial design fault. Coolant is a solved problem for a lot of brands, including older VWs.
See this: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=450443

Might be absurd, but it is fact.
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Old October 17th, 2018, 05:30   #116
740GLE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flargabarg View Post
That is absurd. My last TDI, you changed the coolant when you did the timing belt and water pump, and did not worry about it. This seems like a substantial design fault. Coolant is a solved problem for a lot of brands, including older VWs.

Your last TDI was a Gen 1 with the EPA fix? Comparing an ALH or BEW with a CR TDI is a huge stretch.

Gen2 and Gen3 cars have coolant constantly seeing 230-250F cruising on the highway with the water to air IC (even with outside temps being 45F), I monitored our '15 last time I had a 100 mile road trip for work.

IMO coolant flushes need to be more done at 80K, sadly they aren't the easiest to perform.

The use and abuse the coolant sees only is exacerbated with the EPA fix on these Gen 1 cars. This thread shows tons of people that had quasi working heater cores and then fail once having the EPA fix most before their first TB job.
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