My love affair with Diesel has ended

Since I was a teenager I always wanted a diesel. Back then it was a mercedes inline 5 turbo diesel. My first diesel however wasn't until February of 2006 and boy was I in love. I continued to be a diesel only driver up until a few days ago. Now I am afraid my love affair has ended partially due to all the unnecessary (my opinion) emissions equipment on the modern diesel.

To me diesel used to make sense because they lasted forever and were pretty darn reliable if you kept up the maintenance on them. Now we have two EGR, cats, urea injection, DPF, etc. I mean heck the exhaust system on the car is several thousand dollars. Now with all this emissions cheating I have reached my saturation point with VW.

Diesels are still great and I think will hopefully get better over time, but for now at least I am leaving the diesel community. I just purchased a Hyundai Sonata plug-in hybrid and I love the car. Seems like a lot of car and content for the money. I will still check in with the TDI club from time to time and I still have my golf...but its parked now until this whole emissions nightmare is resolved.

I don't knock anyone for still loving diesel and I will probably need my flame suit once I hit the post button.

To everyone who has helped me over the years I say thank you...thank you for your knowledge...thank you for this wonderful community...and thank you in advance for understanding my reasoning for leaving the TDI/Diesel fold ...at least for now.

To each his own. Enjoy the Hyundai I guess.

I hear ya, but I'll just keep driving my old diesels, and will enjoy the brand new one I just ordered. My daily drivers will continue to be the older VE and PD TDIs, simply because there really isn't anything better out there. Once Dieselgate has blown over, and I have *modified* my CR TDI, I may drive it a little more. But as it stands, its fuel economy is slightly worse than my ALH car, and I just prefer the A4 platform overall as a good blend of simplicity, ease of service, and longevity.

The Sonata is a nice car, though. If Hyundai/Kia sold a diesel here, I might consider one. They were supposed to sell a diesel Borego here, but never did, then axed the model saying sales were short due to "poor fuel economy" . I was really hoping to see a Hyundai truck (pickup truck, not some Stupid Useless Vehicle or crossdresser), but that so far has never happened. The current Kia Sedona minivan is really nice. The Hyundai version (the Entourage) seemed to fizzle out pretty quickly... but minivan sales in general are weak. Which is funny since the crossdressers are slowly but surely morphing into minivans as we speak, just with poorer fuel economy, less interior room, and harder to access rear seats. Strange what the buying public wants.

I have had good luck with all the Hyundai/Kia products with friends, families, and customers. I tend to prefer the styling of the Kia side better, but that is probably because Hyundai hired the same designer as Audi, so....

Yes Hyundai has come a long way...my sister owned a 1988 Hyundai Excel. Mk4 are nice and I wish I had kept my 2003 Beetle GL TDI. My situation is that I drive from Laurel to Baltimore very frequently. With the combined electric motor and 2.0 L gasser the output is 202hp and 230 lb ft so it's close to the TDI on paper...the electric motor really helps on the low end and the gasser doesn't hit its peak until 6k and 4k rpm respectively. Oh and the warranty.... 5/60k bumper to bumper, 10/100k power train, and lifetime warranty on the battery were all factors in my decision as well.

i plan on keeping my old crappers going. My mk4 is long in the teeth, but i am going to try and find a clean gasser from California, and transplant the ALH in. The newer stuff is just waaay to restricted by regulation. The EPA has essentially legislated an effective diesel out of existence. Its not just vw, but the diesel pickup market too. Way over complicated and unreliable.

vtpsd said:

i plan on keeping my old crappers going. My mk4 is long in the teeth, but i am going to try and find a clean gasser from California, and transplant the ALH in. The newer stuff is just waaay to restricted by regulation. The EPA has essentially legislated an effective diesel out of existence. Its not just vw, but the diesel pickup market too. Way over complicated and unreliable.

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I see a lot of big rigs around here sporting DEF tanks too. All this extra complexity and extra cost is eventually going to trickle down as the cost of running the big rigs increases for transport/trucking companies.

I took a Chevy Colorado Duramax Diesel out for a drive last week.....Love it!!
$43750 is a bit of a problem though!! Sweet driver!! May let VW buy mine back and get one!!

no-blue-screen said:

I see a lot of big rigs around here sporting DEF tanks too. All this extra complexity and extra cost is eventually going to trickle down as the cost of running the big rigs increases for transport/trucking companies.

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I repair commercial trucks for a living for a large leasing company. I can personally attest that over the last few years, after treatment issues have become the most common cause of breakdown and shop visits. If a check engine light is ignored the truck will de-rate until the driver is forced to address the issue. SCR faults have become about 60% of my daily workload. I couldn't imagine the financial burden on an owner operator who found themselves as the proud owner of a newer class 8 truck. Unfortunately some of the ports aren't letting owners of trucks older than 2008 take a load without the engine retrofitted to modern emission standards.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Huge problem in Fire Service Vehicles......especially Ambulances

I hear you. Just how clean is clean enough? Having to spend thousands of $ possibly before 100K miles is just appalling especially since the emission gain in no way justify the emission improvement gains or the expense.

Even with the camshaft issues, my BRM is probably be the last Diesel I will buy thanks to the ridiculous emission standards the EPA has set.

Want to sell your TDI? I'm more than happy to buy a another diesel.

tomo366 said:

Huge problem in Fire Service Vehicles......especially Ambulances

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The new wagons are wider as well due to the emissions systems. We know the streets aren't getting any wider so it's just one more thing to worry about going down the road.

Probably not the size of the vehicle, but the complexity of the emission systems that tomo366 is referring to.

I could not imagine owning a 2009 Jetta and being faced with emission system repairs that cost more than the car is worth.

1001 lb-ft said:

Want to sell your TDI? I'm more than happy to buy a another diesel.

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Ah, no. I am more than content with my BRM. At least the repairs it might need are manageable. If it was a 2009 to 2014 CR, I would probably just give it to you and laugh my way to the bank with the money I saved.

tomo366 said:

Huge problem in Fire Service Vehicles......especially Ambulances

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Yep, which is why for the first time in DECADES you can buy gasoline powered ambulances here once again.

And you should see the problems the agricultural and construction industries are having with the newer stuff. So much so, that Caterpillar's refurbishing of older equipment has quintupled in business in the last few years. And that has, sadly, caused a giant hit for demand for new equipment, which means they have been laying off people and closing plants all over the world.

I hear about this from a friend I went to school with, who works for a giant Caterpillar dealer. The segment that does refurb for the old stuff is busy, busy, busy. And there is such a shortage of the older stuff to work with, and it is in such high demand, there is a waiting list. Crazy. Imagine having rows of new excavators sitting gathering dust, with HUGE discounts offered on them, and having buyers say no, they'd rather wait for you to get finished rebuilding one that is 10 years old instead.

The John Deere dealer in my town just bailed out, too. Can't sell the new stuff, and if they cannot move enough product, JD pulls the franchise. But they are still in business... same thing, refurbing old stuff, and constantly fixing the newer stuff. They didn't blink an eye about losing their franchise because the warranty times were killing them anyways.

And it isn't exactly like you can just bring a lot of this equipment into the dealer for service.... they have to come to you. Which ads cost, downtime, etc. And a lot of this equipment's window of use is dependent on weather and seasons. They can't wait for a DPF cleaning, or some goofy failed sensor buried in the bowels of the engine to be special ordered, and you also can't simply "grab a loaner" like you can a car and get done what you need to do that day.

It is ridiculous.

I love diesels too. I have had like 9 diesels so far. They are getting out of hand with all the crap on them. 6 of my diesels had the simple mechanical injection on them and no turbo, and they were the best of the 9. The 6 had no egr's and all the other crap on them. The 3 turbo'ed diesels were VW's and they were the most costly to have. VW better be good to us in buying back, or my 2010 will be the last VW of any kind that I buy. They should to keep us as costumers give a new 1.4 diesel Hybrid that they now have which is the only diesel that is so far compliant for e testing.

I would love to take a Cummins 4BT with the "P Pump," [mechanical injection] diesel and drop it into a 1980 Chevy or Ford F150 1/2 ton pickup as no e testing and the diesel is a real diesel compared to the VW's
Diesel cars and truck are no longer simple and are plan too costly to up keep compared to the ones before all the pollution crap that has found it way on them. They now have more pollution crap on them, then gassers do and for sure are most costly. For cars ones best betnow is a gasser and not a diesel.

Not sure what your definition of "real" diesel is, but I am pretty sure I just filled my half-million-mile Golf up with good ol' #2 diesel fuel this morning, same as I filled a Cummins powered Case skidsteer up with last night. Am I missing something?

Things are certainly not as simple with DIESEL motors as they once were....
To put it simply, when cars got emissions control's, it took a few years to both get it right, and for the techs and the shops to learn the systems....
The early adopters sometimes pay a high price...a few trucking companies have, with new trucks destroying them due to issues.
2 of the companies I have worked for have been very slow to adopt the newer 2010+ diesel tech.....heck many companies are still rebuilding the pre-2006, low flow egr truck for a second or 3rd time, trying to get another 5 years or so before they have to move to the modern systems....
The companies that have successfully started buying and using the newer trucks ARE doing well....the mpg gains thanks to better tuning with the newer systems are impressive.
The company that I worked for that was just moving slowly into the 2010 def trucks, only having a few as testers had determined that if they are trouble free, they tend to last a long time...no issues, and are very cost effective.... BUT IF ISSUES COME UP, it is opten best to trade in or sell it, since techs, and even manufacturers are often causing issues, but never really fixing them....
My current employer had 3 def trucks...now down to 1...soon to be back to none...they all were bought used...and had never ending strings of issues....
Similarly the company I worked for prior had 1 in out local group of trucks we drove....it spent more days at the dealer than on the road till it was sold...
Repairing issues on many if these vehicles are in the early stages....while the old motors are very well understood, the new ones, not so much...
My 2015 has been a great car...but if it starts to toss emissions codes, or have other emissions related issues, thanks to the wisdom of my prior bosses who have owned THOUSANDS of DIESEL trucks running millions of miles, I would not hesitate to sell it, and move on if issues crop up....hate to let the next owner get stuck with it...but sometimes best to jump ship!!

And as far as a "buy back", so far I am rolling the dice...just did the prepaid 20+40,000 mile plan for $169 to save a few $ with my dealer car....figure if they do a buyback, I might have another year to decide anyway!!

oilhammer said:

Not sure what your definition of "real" diesel is, but I am pretty sure I just filled my half-million-mile Golf up with good ol' #2 diesel fuel this morning, same as I filled a Cummins powered Case skidsteer up with last night. Am I missing something?

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Think they are just referring to the older stuff that was not hydo-treated, the stuff that had more of the waxes and sulfur in it..
Sure it did have more btu's, and more lube, but the world we live in says it must be cleaner stuff now....heck, even #2 heating fuel, which was once the same as the "old #2 diesel" is now required to be low sulfur in my area....
I will say the more modern fuels tend to be better in cold temps....the lower paraffin/wax content is less likly to plug filters in cold temps, and seems to gel less.

Don't hate the game, hate the player if you feel its right. To each his or her own. I loved the fuel mileage I get with my TDI. But, I am game for a buyback or compensation and getting something different. Even getting a Golf GTi or R model to replace my TDI would be fine...as long as I can get a loyalty bonus cash incentives for buying another VW

No, I wouldn't pay ~$45K for the new Chevy diesel the first year it comes out. Let other people be the beta testers to find all the bugs...