www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > OBD Scanners

OBD Scanners Discussions on using On Board Diagnostic (OBD) scanners/ Diagnostic Equipment related to TDIs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 14th, 2018, 14:45   #61
Diesl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Default

That would also be very interesting, to get the VAG-COM numbers in comparison to the Torque/OBD numbers. If I understand it correctly, there are two computed and one measured soot loading in the ECU; only one seems to be reported via OBD/Torque.
__________________
If it works, take it apart and find out why!
Diesl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2018, 10:57   #62
sportwagen3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MD
Default

Does anyone know how the formula was created? My numbers are still off in comparison to VAGDPF.
sportwagen3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2018, 18:31   #63
Diesl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Default

I think I put the story in this thread. B2C5 shows up in the torque test results, so that's where it comes from.
__________________
If it works, take it apart and find out why!
Diesl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2018, 20:14   #64
Diesl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Default

Vag com supposedly has measured soot load and computed soot load. The OBD field mode 6 PID B2C5 has only one of the two, and I believe (believing means not knowing, as my math teacher used to say) that for my 2012 TDI before the fix it was measured soot in bytes R49 and R50, reading up to 16.something, and after the fix I believe it reports computed soot which reads up to 23.47 in bytes R40 and R41. Just my guess, based on the observation that before the fix the reported soot value would occasionally decrease, and that the new value seems to run higher than the old (before fix) number.
__________________
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Last edited by Diesl; March 23rd, 2018 at 20:17.
Diesl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2018, 00:41   #65
cr-tdi
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: EU
TDI(s): cr2.0
Default 06b2 readings

Hi, I have looked all threads and this one is most advanced and alive. I have tried everything and so far no result good enough. My ecu is not very talkative on dpf PIDs in mode 1. I get no data for exhaust temperature sensors and no data on dpf readings. I defined custom pid for 06b2 and I get short data:

7E8100A46B2C2170230
7E821008CFFFF

From this I can create something useful, but I don't know the formula (bytes A-G). Retrieved values while drivingin dec: B=194, C=23, D=2, E=238, F=0, G=140. I compared with vcds readings, but nothing matches.

I have run test results and currently I have only 3 (mid/tid): $01/$c0, $31/$c0, $b2/$c2. I had more tests results when I connected torque first time, but now it stopped reading.

How to make any value from my 06b2 data? Any other readings?
cr-tdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2018, 16:19   #66
Diesl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Default

Hi CR, I believe your B2C2 data are in bytes D and E, but I'm not sure that C2 has the soot load. For my car (2012 Jetta Sportwagen= Golf Variant TDI), 06B2 brings up B2D1, D2, D5, C4, and B2C5, in this order. No C2 in there.
__________________
If it works, take it apart and find out why!
Diesl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2018, 11:40   #67
cr-tdi
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: EU
TDI(s): cr2.0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesl View Post
Hi CR, I believe your B2C2 data are in bytes D and E, but I'm not sure that C2 has the soot load. For my car (2012 Jetta Sportwagen= Golf Variant TDI), 06B2 brings up B2D1, D2, D5, C4, and B2C5, in this order. No C2 in there.
I can say only 06b2 byte E is changing its value.
In vcds I have distance driven since regen 360, time 540, Oil ash 198, Carbon spec. 13.2 and actual 12.9, requested regens 3, dpf temp 12 (cold engine). These are the values which I would like to see on obd app in ideal world. It will be enough to find any reading which shows dpf is in regen. Thx for reply, I will play with it more during longer run, fetch more data to compare.
cr-tdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2018, 21:27   #68
Diesl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Default Comparison of old and new mode 06 PID B2 record

Some data field locations changed after the emissions fix on my 2012 JSW TDI.
The record structure, as reported by Torque on my car, is in groups of ten bytes:
7-E8-<sub record number byte> -<?> - <?> - data bytes R1 - R5
7-E8-<sub record number byte> - data bytes R6 - R12
7-E8-<sub record number byte> data bytes R 13 - R19
And so on.
The data byte structure is
'B2' - 'D1'- <unknown function byte (data type? checksum?)> - <high byte> - <low byte> - variable number of extra bytes -
'B2' - 'D2'- <unknown function byte> - <high byte> - <low byte> - variable number of extra bytes -
and so on. So the label bytes do count as data bytes, but the sub-record label&count do not.
The data locations are:
Marker - old Byte Location - new byte location - meaning
  • B2D1 - 4&5 - 4&5 - same as mode 01 PID 7A, when over 300; otherwise last value: DPF pressure drop in units of 0.1 mbar = 10 Pascal
  • B2D2 - 13&14 - 13&14 - something proportional to soot load estimated from throttle position, RPM (or mass air flow) and exhaust temperature ? Goes up and down, but not in a monotonic relationship to DPF pressure drop.
  • B2D3 - 22&23 - n/a - ?
  • B2D4 - 31&32 - n/a - ?
  • B2D5 - n/a - 22&23 - ?
  • B2C4 - 40&41 - 31&32 - ?
  • B2C5 - 49&50 - 40&41 - soot load in 0.01 gram units; behaving differently in old and new record ( old: Max out at 16.67 gram ; would decrease occasionally - new record: Max out at 23.xx gram; never decreases)
In the new record, R44&R45 counted from zero to 5000 after installation of the new DPF, and stayed at that value ( hex 1388) since. In the old record, the last two bytes R53&R54 were at that same value x1388. The two bytes between the B2C5 value and x1388 are zero in both the old and the new record.

The new B2C5 value is not very good at tracking DPF pressure drop at idle, which I believe to be a good measure of DPF loading: the last regeneration was triggered by B2C5 reaching 23.xx gram after 464 miles, but at that point due to sustained high speed running the DPF pressure drop had decreased to 6 mbar, close to its minimum value of 4 mbar typically seen after a regeneration.
The old B2C5 value reached 16 gram typically when the DPF pressure drop at idle would be above 14 mbar.
__________________
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Last edited by Diesl; April 18th, 2018 at 21:36.
Diesl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2018, 21:06   #69
EECSentric
Veteran Member
 
EECSentric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Arlington, MA
Fuel Economy: 36-49
Default

Thanks Diesl for your help and understanding. For my 2015 post-phase-1 fix I found that using ((R13<8)+R14)*10 appears to report Measured Soot Mass in milligrams. I'm using mg for now since I wanted to see the significant digits and Torque was only reporting a single decimal place.
Using VCDS I scanned for particle filter related measurements which reported
  • IDE00432 Particle filter: time since last regeneration 24792 s
  • IDE00433 Particle filter: oil ash volume 0.03 l
  • IDE00434 Particle filter: soot mass calculated 23.41 g
  • IDE00435 Particle filter: soot mass measured 13.69 g
  • IDE00436 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration 323758 m
  • IDE01407 Particle filter: fuel consumption since last regeneration 16.93 l
A few minutes later I ran Torque pro which reports PID 0x06B2 test response as (spaces added)
  • 7E8 10 1C46 B2C4 1200 00
  • 7E8 21 0000 0000 B2C5 36
  • 7E8 22 0559 0000 1388 B2
  • 7E8 23 C884 0000 0000 00
  • 7E8 24 0055 5555 5555 55
The measured soot load of 13.69g in VCDS if converted to hex with assumed scaling is
13.69 * 100 = 0x559
The value 0x0559 can be found in line 3 response in torque in the R13 & R14 places so I think this value is good

I haven't figured out the other values available in this PID for the 2015. Torque pro doesn't appear to report beyond R33
__________________
James (aka EECSentric)
EECSentric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2018, 15:30   #70
Diesl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Default

Thanks a lot for reporting your findings, James!

Among other things, it is interesting to see that the calculated soot mass in VCDS is quite a bit higher than the measured soot mass (which is also calculated, but in a different way; there is no milligram scale built into the DPF...). This increases my confidence that VW indeed switched the soot mass value reported via OBD II mode 06 B2C5 from measured before the fix to calculated after the fix for my 2012 TDI.

PS: You can change the number of decimal places in Torque, in the configuration settings for an individual display (long click on the display in question; fourth option in the menu that appears).
__________________
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Last edited by Diesl; April 20th, 2018 at 15:33.
Diesl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2018, 12:11   #71
Diesl
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Default

Update: my fixed 2012 JSW TDI now seems to be back at about 200 miles between regenerations, about the same as before the fix.
After the last two regenerations, the soot variable came back alive pretty much immediately, instead of staying at the maximum value (now after the fix usually 23.47 gram) until 70 miles later. Actually, during one regeneration that (I assume) finished an earlier interrupted attempt, the display stayed alive the whole time while soot levels went down from 12 to 3.5 gram. Temperatures went ~100 C higher during this regeneration than usual, up to 775 C before the turbo (EGT 1) and 680 C at EGT sensor 3.
__________________
If it works, take it apart and find out why!

Last edited by Diesl; June 2nd, 2018 at 12:14.
Diesl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10th, 2018, 13:54   #72
550TDI
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Qld, Australia
Default

On my 3.0l TDI soot level is all over the place and results are really different of Vag DPF. Over 100g and jumping up and down.
Also temp and cact data are not available . Only delta.
So maybe my engine is really different. And I have to use different pids or formula.
Thanks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
550TDI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2018, 05:36   #73
dandan81
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Sydney
Default

I'm having similar issues as you are 550TDI on my 2017 V6 Amarok (3.0L V6 TDI)

Haven't tried the 2012 Golf GTD (2L TDI) yet

This is what I'm getting from 06b2 on the V6

7e8100a46b2c1fc0352
7e821010e7fff000000

from what I have seen 000000 seems to indicate burn down active

The most recent data I've pulled from VAG DPF Free was soot mass 27.28g and distance since regen 304km

0352 and 010e seem to be the only other values that change, especially under acceleration/high engine load.

The response looks a little short to some others I've seen. I've tried some of the equations with R14>8 amongst others but they just don't add up.
dandan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2018, 18:28   #74
550TDI
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Qld, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandan81 View Post
I'm having similar issues as you are 550TDI on my 2017 V6 Amarok (3.0L V6 TDI)

Haven't tried the 2012 Golf GTD (2L TDI) yet

This is what I'm getting from 06b2 on the V6

7e8100a46b2c1fc0352
7e821010e7fff000000

from what I have seen 000000 seems to indicate burn down active

The most recent data I've pulled from VAG DPF Free was soot mass 27.28g and distance since regen 304km

0352 and 010e seem to be the only other values that change, especially under acceleration/high engine load.

The response looks a little short to some others I've seen. I've tried some of the equations with R14>8 amongst others but they just don't add up.
I believe the amarok must be very different than others VW. I'm also using DPF Vag but the paid version. And the V6 doesnt recognize everything.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
550TDI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2018, 18:36   #75
dandan81
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Sydney
Default

I did notice that our engine wasn't on the supported list yet.

Shame the scan in Torque Pro doesn't quite work...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
dandan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water Level Sensor False Reading vwfern VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 6 November 24th, 2013 21:10
Can Vag-Com adjust fuel level reading? shizzler OBD Scanners 3 August 4th, 2010 12:44
Messing with the Air Flow Meter Reading for tuning and to help combat soot? Possible? pietch TDI Power Enhancements 2 September 14th, 2008 03:57
Fuel Gauge isnt reading correct level cfm56 VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 6 June 20th, 2007 05:26
SOOT LOADING LEVEL IN TDI OIL SkyPup Fuels & Lubricants 27 November 24th, 1999 11:19


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.16129 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 134.67 Kb. compressed to 113.35 Kb. by saving 21.32 Kb. (15.83%)]