Canadian vs. American diesel

ittrad

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2000
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2000 Golf GLS Silver
OK, I have read here many times before that European diesel is the nectar of the diesel gods and Canadian and US diesel is something strained from a cesspool.

So why is it that every time I fill up in the US, my car smokes and every time I fill up in Canada it doesn't? I thought it was a matter of highway driving vs. city or maybe just one bad batch, but it's starting to show a pattern.

I have filled up in North Carolina, Pennsylvania and New York. Each time, the car smokes heavily under heavy acceleration and a fair bit under normal acceleration. With Sunoco or Sunys diesel locally (Ottawa) I really have to try to get the car to smoke even a little bit.

Is Canadian diesel better? With the number of diesels I see around here (only saw one TDI over a three day trip in the US while I routinely see 20 or more a day in Ottawa) is it possible that we just have better fuel? Is there some study to back up the claim by many forum members that Canadian diesel is as bad as US diesel?

Jamie
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Yes, Canada has the worst, a little worse than the US even and that really sux bad.

Just type under search "Canada Diesel" on this fuel forum for the bonafide answer.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Overall, Canadian fuels tend to have low density, low viscosity, and lighter distillation characteristics than those used in the United States, and are among the worst lubricity fuels in the world. Diesel fuel No. 1, as used for much of the year in Canada, is broadly similar to the kerosene fuels that caused durability problems in military vehicles, municipal buses, and aviation equipment.
Even prior to the introduction of 500ppm-sulfur diesel fuel, Canada had reported problems with reduced equipment life. These failures were typically associated with winter grade diesel fuels, particularly when they were used in warmer conditions.

500ppm sulfur fuels have been available in Canada since the 1980s, and a maximum sulfur content of 500 ppm was mandated in 1994. Fleet testing repeatedly demonstrated catastrophic pump failure in less than 500 miles of operation on Canadian fuel. In 1997, Canada modified its low-sulfur diesel fuel specification to address the lubricity of winter fuels - those having a viscosity below 1.9 cSt at 40ºC or less and a cloud point of -30ºC or lower. A fuel supplier can "qualify" its fuel using one of several options, ranging from a field test to pump rig tests to the HFRR or BOCLE laboratory scale test. A fuel supplier must use lubricity additives if the fuel fails the selected test.

The primary sources of sulfur in diesel fuel are the sulfur-containing compounds which occur naturally in crude oil. Depending on the source, crude oil contains anywhere from fractions of a percent of sulfur, such as less than 0.05 weight percent (500 ppm) to as much as several percent. The average amount of sulfur in crude oil refined in the U.S. is about one percent. Most of the sulfur in crude oil is in the heaviest boiling fractions. Since all of the refinery blendstocks that can be used to manufacture diesel fuel come from the heavier boiling components of crude oil, they contain substantial amounts of sulfur.

On an aggregate basis, most of the highway diesel fuel volume manufactured in the U.S. comes from the straight-run product of the crude fractionation tower (called straight run). Most of the remainder, comes from the fluid catalytic cracker (FCC) conversion unit (called light cycle oil).

The remaining small fraction of diesel fuel volume comes from a coker conversion unit (called light coker gas oil), or from the hydrocracker conversion unit (called hydrocrackate).

Sulfur containing compounds in distillate can be classified according to the ease with which they are desulfurized. Sulfur contained in paraffins or aromatics with a single aromatic ring are relatively easy to desulfurize. These molecules are sufficiently flexible so that the sulfur atom is in a geometric position where it can make physical contact with the surface of the catalyst. The more difficult compounds are contained in aromatics consisting of two aromatic rings, particularly dibenzothiophenes.

Dibenzothiophene contains two benzene rings which are connected by a carbon-carbon bond and two carbon-sulfur bonds (both benzene rings are bonded to the same sulfur atom). This compound is essentially flat in nature and the carbon atoms bound to the sulfur atom hinder the approach of the sulfur atom to the catalyst surface. Despite this, today's catalysts are very effective in desulfurizing dibenzothiophenes, as long as only hydrogen is attached to the carbon atoms bound directly to the sulfur atom.

However, distillate can contain dibenzothiophenes which have methyl or ethyl groups bound to the carbon atoms which are in turn bound to the sulfur atom. These extra methyl or ethyl groups further hinder the approach of the sulfur atom to the catalyst surface.

Dibenzothiophenes with such methyl or ethyl groups are commonly referred to as being sterically hindered. An example of a dibenzothiophene with a single methyl or ethyl group next to the sulfur atom is 4-methyldibenzothiophene. An example of a dibenzothiophene with two methyl or ethyl groups next to the sulfur atom is 4,6-dimethyl dibenzothiophene. In 4,6-dimethyl dibenzothiophene, and similar compounds, the presence of a methyl group on either side of the sulfur atom makes it very difficult for the sulfur atom to react with the catalyst surface to assist the hydrogenation of the sulfur atom.

Straight run distillate (or straight run gas oil (SRGO)) contains relatively low levels of these sterically hindered compounds. LCO, contains the greatest concentration of sterically hindered compounds. Thus, LCO is generally more difficult to desulfurize than straight run distillate.1 In addition, cracked stocks, particularly LCO, have a greater tendency to form coke on the catalyst, which deactivates the catalyst and requires its replacement.


Overall, Canadian fuels tend to have low density, low viscosity, and lighter distillation characteristics than those used in the United States, and are among the worst lubricity fuels in the world. Diesel fuel No. 1, as used for much of the year in Canada, is broadly similar to the kerosene fuels that caused durability problems in military vehicles, municipal buses, and aviation equipment.

Even prior to the introduction of low-sulfur diesel fuel, Canada had reported problems with reduced equipment life. These failures were typically associated with winter grade diesel fuels, particularly when they were used in warmer conditions. Low-sulfur fuels have been available in Canada since the 1980s, and a maximum sulfur content of 500 ppm was mandated in 1994. Fleet testing repeatedly demonstrated catastrophic pump failure in less than 500 miles of operation on Canadian fuel. In 1997, Canada modified its low-sulfur diesel fuel specification to address the lubricity of winter fuels - those having a viscosity below 1.9 cSt at 40ºC or less and a cloud point of -30ºC or lower. A fuel supplier can "qualify" its fuel using one of several options, ranging from a field test to pump rig tests to the HFRR or BOCLE laboratory scale test. A fuel supplier must use lubricity additives if the fuel fails the selected test.
 

cars wanted

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 1999
Location
Rockville, Maryland U.S.A.
TDI
Golf GLS-TDI, 2000, white/beige
Yeah, but Canadian diesel fuel smokes less. I have run only 1 tank of Canadian diesel fuel, vs. nearly 20 tanks of U.S. diesel fuels. The Canadian fuel looked clearer (less greenish-yellow) than U.S. fuel, and foamed even more easily. Fuel economy seemed a tiny bit worse on the Canadian brew, but 1 tank, and not identical driving conditions make this not entirely an accurate test. I cannot address lubricity issues, since I always add Stanadyne fuel additive to any fuel I buy.
ittrad, my recommendation to you when travelling in the U.S.A. is to try and seek out Amoco Premier #2 diesel fuel, or even Amoco Powerblend diesel fuel. Of course, this is most difficult for a traveller to do, and Amoco's web site is of no help, since Amoco apparently considers locations of gas stations selling Amoco diesel fuels to be a corporate trade secret.
I always add the Stanadyne, and lately, I have been using Amsoil's Cetane additive, which does result in easier cold starts and less smoke. I hope this will help on your next trip in the U.S.A. (Thanks to our Golf TDIs, we live less than a tankful of fuel apart.)
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I dunno about the Canadian fuel being so bad. There's lots of folks with VW diesels here, and no issues. I've certainly had no issues with mine. It is indeed a lighter grade (at least in winter), and this is a GOOD THING, because your fuel system won't freeze up in -30 C!! There have been enough problems with American diesel freezing up, and practically none here.

I add a small amount of Marvel Mystery Oil and Kleen-Flo injector cleaner to address the possible lubricity issues.

Brian P.
'96 Passat TDI mit UPsolute
 

ittrad

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2000
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2000 Golf GLS Silver
Excellent reply... but why does it smoke less? And why do I know several people with 400,000 mile plus diesels who don't use additives. in fact, a friend is driving from BC to Newfoundland in a 650,000Km diesel right now.

Jamie
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Jamie, do a search on this forum under my user #84, I posted a complete list of each Canadian refinery, the type of production each one does and whether or not they met the Canadian governments lubricity requirements with or without additives, the info is all there.

BTW, Canada also signed off on the new ULSD fuel regulations too and the Canadian Minister of the Environment is interested in getting Canada ahead of the ball which will be phased in from 2004-2006, so things will be getting alot better. There is also a diesel fuel chemistry investigation on-going at the present time to consider the optimum performance of other diesel fuel quality parameters, including higher cetane regulations, less aromatics, and more density. These studies will be completed by this summer and will be an addendum to the current new regulations. Canada will also abide by these new regs too.

PRAY FOR EUROSPEC DIESEL FUEL REGULATIONS FOLKS!
 

magicmel

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2001
Location
Canada
Actually the best diesel in Canada, IMHO, is Mohawk or Husky, their diesel is diesel max premium. I found that Petro Canada and Hugh's diesel performed very poorly. For example on a recent short trip on Petro canada diesel my milege dropped to 42 MPG, I filled up with Mohawk and the the same drive went back to 57 MPG. Coincidence? I think not.
 

Janusz

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2000
Location
Vancouver,BC,Canada
TDI
Golf 2000
I've tried all available diesel brands here in BC and found all of them crappy, but Mohawk seems to be a little better indeed.

So now I try to stick with Mohawk as much as possible and this is all we can do in Great White North, really.

I also found some AVIEX additive at Husky cardlock station - this cetane and lubricity improver is discontinued now, but it works really good. I bought all the stock they still had for only $4 a liter so now I am good for few years at least
 

dezeljunky

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Location
Richmond, BC
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI Silver 5spd
After 10 Years... let's have another go at this ;)

I drive down to Bellingham, WA monthly(thanks to ventectemy;)) now to fuel up (Fred Meyer D2) and get my fix of cheap groceries:D. I think I'm saving about 20-25c per litre on diesel compared to Canadian diesel. The fuel savings pays for my short trip over the border where I can get more selection of groceries at significantly lower prices than in Canada.

Should I be concerned that US diesel has fewer additives or vice versa? Any difference now that we are both on ULSD?
 
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IceRaider360

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
TDI
2011 Golf DSG
I have been using CO-OP EP3000 diesel for a while now and I can almost hit my 4.6 l/100km rating on my car, they have Diesel nozzles at every pump and it starts great in the winter -35C on my 2011 Golf TDI DSG.

Specifications
EP3000®
Density (KG/M3 @ 15°C)
Summer = 860
Winter = 855
Cetane Number
Summer = 46.5
Winter = 44.0
Cloud Point (°C)
Summer = -15
Winter = -40
Pour Point (°C)
Summer = -28
Winter = -52
Flash Point (°C)
Summer = 75
Winter = 67
Sulphur Content (% Mass)
Summer = <0.0015 (15ppm)
Winter = <0.0015 (15ppm)
Lubricity (HFRR - Maximum 460 @ 60°C)
Summer = <460
Winter = <460
 
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cleaver

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Berwick, Nova Scotia
TDI
None - did own '01 and '02 Jetta TDI
This started as a very old thread. I would question the quality of Canadian diesel versus US diesel. Our scar value is much lower and within spec of Bosch fuel pumps and the US is not even close. (this is for VW CR engines)...search for HPFP failures and you will see many horror stories on the new 2009 models to current ones....no horror stories from Canada yet...

US diesel might have been better in 2001, but in 2011 I would say Canada is lightyears ahead of the US.
 

listerone

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2018 BMW 540d
Having used only about 20-25 gallons of Canadian diesel (all bought in the colder months) and many times more than that of US diesel (bought year round) I can't say I've noticed any real difference.No smoke with either type.
 

tdi90hp

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Location
Canuckland
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6 speed(gone but NEVER forgotten)
my dealer told me they dont have fuel pump problems here....they are a high volume diesel store an hour from toronto so mainly serve commuters....maybe its the canadian diesel? we go 2% bio across the country July 1st by law. may help as well.
 

dezeljunky

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Location
Richmond, BC
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI Silver 5spd
cool.... so Canadian diesel is getting better, is there much change in US ULSD to have a certain mandatory biodiesel %? Is it all dependent on the state? Anyone know of the rules in Washington state? :D
 

fastalan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Location
Richmond BC
TDI
2010 Golf TDI Wagon
The ULSD sold in WA/OR is supposely by now contain 2-5% biodiesel which means it's pretty close in biodiesel content than what we already have here in BC (up to 5%). It is very likely the lubricity level of ULSD sold in WA/OR is already good enough for our CR TDI engine. Any chance that some of us Canadian TDI owners in lower BC can chip in some money together and do a lab test between BC and WA's ULSD?

WA diesel - even at US$4.3-4.5 / gallon = CAD$ 1.10 / liter

BC diesel - CAD$ 1.3-1.4 / liter

I cross the border at least 3 times a week but I've only filled up in WA a few times. There some decent saving if one can do it on a regular basis. Use Blaine/Bellingham WA diesel from spring to fall and switch back to Vancouver BC diesel during winter.
 
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dezeljunky

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Location
Richmond, BC
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI Silver 5spd
Had some Washington state diesel spill out when filling up recently and it didn't feel like oil. Almost thought it was gasoline. Clear and non-oily. Could you tell me where you heard that WA/OR diesel may contain 2-5% biodiesel? It would be great if that was true but I was surprised by the small spill I had. I haven't used the Canadian stuff in a while but I'll try to add some lubricity additive still regardless of where I fillup.
 

flatlanded

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Saskatchewan
TDI
2002 Jetta
You might have some EP3000 out your way in BC. Co-op does truck some out there. It's funny how Canadian diesel has caught up and then passed american diesel in the last ten years as far as fuel standards go.
 

fastalan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Location
Richmond BC
TDI
2010 Golf TDI Wagon
Had some Washington state diesel spill out when filling up recently and it didn't feel like oil. Almost thought it was gasoline. Clear and non-oily. Could you tell me where you heard that WA/OR diesel may contain 2-5% biodiesel? It would be great if that was true but I was surprised by the small spill I had. I haven't used the Canadian stuff in a while but I'll try to add some lubricity additive still regardless of where I fillup.
Just search google. The fuel station owners I talked to in Point Roberts and Blaine don't know a thing, they just receive fuel from the truck, but the law is there in WA and OR.

I find Canadian station owners are more awared of what they carry. If you check the diesel fuel pump of Canadian Shell station, on the side of the V-Power pump, there is an "fuel additive" warning light, which suggests for the Shell V-Power diesel, the extra additive is being added at the retail station level. Some trained staff at the station is supposed to keep an eye on the additive level.
 

dezeljunky

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Location
Richmond, BC
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI Silver 5spd
I usually fillup at Fred Meyer in Bellingham, WA. Haven't seen any sign talking about additives. I do see a sticker on pump specifying ULSD. Haven't tried asking the minimum wage attendent about it either as I'll probably get 'blank stare' :p
 

fastalan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Location
Richmond BC
TDI
2010 Golf TDI Wagon
About additive and US diesel, there is a Pacific Pride truck station in Ferndale, near the Shell station, offering PowerService enriched diesel fuel, but we can't fill up there, it's only for commercial card owner. Sounds like Power Service is popular in the US and lots of US forum members use it during fill up... that led me to dump 4 oz of power service diesel kleen + cetane boost with my shell v-power fill up a few days ago, some interesting observation, but I will hold my opinion after I used up this tank.
 
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dezeljunky

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Location
Richmond, BC
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI Silver 5spd
for my old ALH... most on this forum say a lubricity additive is needed... don't know how the warranty issues will affect your newer vehicle though.
 

John B.

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Location
Calgary
TDI
2002 Jetta GL TDI
WA diesel - even at US$4.3-4.5 / gallon = CAD$ 1.10 / liter

BC diesel - CAD$ 1.3-1.4 / liter
First you should try your math again. $4.30USD/gal = $1.16CAD/l

That is what you get for living in a Communist regime.... $1.10 here in Alberta...:D
 
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