Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck vs. Shell Rotella T vs. Castrol Syntec

Bob_Fout · Jan 27, 2007

Okie folks. coming up on 60K miles on my 03 TDI in the next few months.

Been using Castrol Syntec 5w40 (dealer oil changes), but wanting to use something better when I do the changes myself (still 10K OCI).

I can readily find Shell Rotella T 5w40 (at Wal-Mart and farm-type stores) and now Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 (new at Autozone), as well as Castrol Syntec 5w40 at several places.

The consensus seems to be that TDT 5w40 and Rotella T 5w40 are superior to Syntec, but I don't see that in the numbers.

Syntec has better visco at 40*C (same as Mobil 1 0w40, see below), but the least at 100*C (again, same as Mobil 1 0w40). TDT has the highest visco at 40*C and is almost as high as Rotella T at 100*C.
TDT has the lowest visco index, while Sytnec and Rotella are even
Syntec has the lowest flash point as well as the highest ("warmest") pour point.
Syntec has the lowest TBN
Syntec has the highest HT/HS

Mobil 1 0w40 MDS - http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.asp

What in those (or other numbers that I don't have) shows that I should use one of those oils over another?

wjdell · Jan 27, 2007

Do a UOA with the Castrol

run 2 crankcase of Shell and UOA - if you are happy then stay - its reasonably priced and the availibilty is best

If you are not happy try the Mobil again 2 crankcase and UOA.

A 2003 - you could try DEO 5W 40 vary good price very good oil also
You have 2003 and there are many good oils for your car. With a non PD engine its like a candy store.

Bob_Fout · Jan 27, 2007

DEO aka Chevron correct?

I only saw Delo 15w40.

Yes there are many good oils...not many that are available near me though.

wjdell · Jan 27, 2007

NO I meant DEO the new CJ4 Amsoil - I think it is one of the best 10k oils out there.

I sure hope you will UOA that current case of Castrol -

Bob_Fout · Jan 27, 2007

Amsoil....I'm sure it's good, but it's not certified by any governing body. Won't go in my car....

There's a UAO place over in Indy, I just might send them a sample at 5K and then again at 7K, and then some of the oil drained at 10K.

wjdell · Jan 27, 2007

I take you mean that DEO is not API - have to ask Andy on that one - I thought DEO was API CJ4

Bob_Fout · Jan 27, 2007

wjdell said:
I take you mean that DEO is not API - have to ask Andy on that one - I thought DEO was API CJ4

I checked the website... "recommended" for use in CJ-4 applications. Don't see the word "certified".

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/deo.aspx

If it was certified I would consider it more, or if I could see several UOAs of it against similar oils

wjdell · Jan 27, 2007

I see - Reminds once I had a government contract and the material specified was 1010B - very inexpensive version of 1010A. We ran out of the less expensive approved 1000 hr material 5 dollars a gal., and were not allowed to sub the better 2000 hr material 11 dollars gal. What happened was they said the count would be 100 cars and they ended up with 130 cars so I was short. I made more profit so it was OK with me. The following year I submitted both materials, that way if ran out of the cheaper material I could use the better material. I would have made a little less profit, but got the job done on time.

Mobil and Rotella are good choices. The UOA's will be interesting, I think if you run at least 2 changes of each so its reliable test. Can you still get a 5k and 10k of the Castrol, or are you past the 5k mark.

TornadoRed · Jan 27, 2007

Bob_Fout said:
What in those (or other numbers that I don't have) shows that I should use one of those oils over another?

Other numbers... III and IV. Syntec and Rotella T are Group III oils, semi-synthetic. Mobil 5w40 is a Group IV, full synthetic. Group IV oils are better, all else being equal. And Mobil 1 5w40 aka Mobil Delvac 1 is a superior diesel motor oil.

The higher TBN with both Rotella T and Mobil TDT suggest that both should last longer between oil changes, or should a larger cushion of safety at the usual 10k-mile OCI.

Bob, you've been contributing to these discussions for a long time. I'm surprised to hear that you're still undecided. Just pick on and run a UOA test, maybe on the Castrol you drain out as a baseline.

Bob_Fout · Jan 27, 2007

TornadoRed said:
Other numbers... III and IV. Syntec and Rotella T are Group III oils, semi-synthetic. Mobil 5w40 is a Group IV, full synthetic. Group IV oils are better, all else being equal. And Mobil 1 5w40 aka Mobil Delvac 1 is a superior diesel motor oil.

The higher TBN with both Rotella T and Mobil TDT suggest that both should last longer between oil changes, or should a larger cushion of safety at the usual 10k-mile OCI.

Bob, you've been contributing to these discussions for a long time. I'm surprised to hear that you're still undecided. Just pick on and run a UOA test, maybe on the Castrol you drain out as a baseline.

Several gurus have been saying that for 10K OCI current group III oils perform just as well as group IV that it's splitting hairs... that group III vs. group IV isn't that big of an issue anymore.

If Syntec is good, Rotella T is very good, and M1 TDT is great, I'll go with the great one.

/EDIT. I saw some of your posts on bobistheoil.com...on a site where both Rotella T and M1 TDT are given rave reviews.

wjdell · Jan 27, 2007

I am at Mobil site now - reading

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 - what about this oil E7

Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40

TR which do you think is the best Mobil product

wjdell · Jan 27, 2007

Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 This one has the lowest ash - MB 229.51

If I remeber correctly that means its the cleaner base stock - like the CJ4 rec

Mobil 1 0W-40 this is the thinest of the three - and has the 505.00 blessing so I guess that is important to you.

All three look like good oils. When I bought my VW I thought I was going to use Mobil 1 Extended

then I opened my manual.

I know how you feel about approvals I would like to use 507.00 but will not till I am positive it is blessed by VW of A. I also want Lubro Moly. I still have 3 quarts of Mobil 1 trying to find someone who uses it local. No one I know uses it they all like that Valvoline were I live.

Sleet · Jan 27, 2007

wjdell said:
I am at Mobil site now - reading

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 - what about this oil E7

Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40

FYI

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 and Dobil delvac 1 5w-40 are the exact same thing!

(sorry don't have the reference handy but it says it on the mobil website)

so that should make that decision easier...

-J

wjdell · Jan 27, 2007

I saw the specs were identical - I have a PD and in a pinch if I had to use a Mobil product I would use the ESP - MB 229.51 is a good spec. The ash is very low and the spec are closer to 505.01

TornadoRed · Jan 27, 2007

wjdell said:
I saw the specs were identical - I have a PD and in a pinch if I had to use a Mobil product I would use the ESP - MB 229.51 is a good spec. The ash is very low and the spec are closer to 505.01

I am assuming the Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5w40 is available only from Mercedes-Benz dealerships?
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_ESP_Formula_M_5W-40.asp

I'd like to see a VOA for this oil.

Bob_Fout · Jan 28, 2007

wjdell said:
Mobil and Rotella are good choices. The UOA's will be interesting, I think if you run at least 2 changes of each so its reliable test. Can you still get a 5k and 10k of the Castrol, or are you past the 5k mark.

I'm at 3K on this batch of oil.

I just submitted a request for a sample kit to be sent to me.

wjdell · Jan 28, 2007

Thats good - if you stay consistant we can gain some knowledge here. My second test coming in March.

JB05 · Jan 28, 2007

I never realized the M1 was such a thin oil based on the HTHS of 2.9. That seems a bit too low. I've looked at the UOA that GMark had posted for the Delvac 1 and noticed a much higher concentration of additives that supposedly are detremental to the cat converter and or O2 sensor if you have one. Then again his is a PD, like mine, yours an ALH? His wear metals were very good though. I went with a Gp 4 that I feel is comperable to the Castrol TXT 505.01 after alot of research on my part.
I had the Rotella T 5W-40 in for about 7K with no problems, but that was before I was educated sort of speak. Wish I had a UOA for it. Do we really need a high TBN in this age of ULSD? My TBN is 8.0 with an HTHS of 3.7. Check out my UOAs.
John

Bob_Fout · Jan 28, 2007

I hear 2.9 is the norm for HT/HS....both M1 TDT and Rotella T are 2.9.

Surly TDT or Rotella protect as well or better than Sytnec at temp?

Yup, a VE ALH.

mmery · Feb 9, 2007

thanks for the good discussion. being a newbie, I've been trying to figure out what to use in a 02 Golf and and 05 Jetta, both automatic transmission cars, 122K and 42K miles, respectively. Bob Fout has been a big help directing me in the search. I gather than Mobil 1 TDT 5-40 would be good for both. Is that right?

GMARK · Feb 9, 2007

mmery said:
thanks for the good discussion. being a newbie, I've been trying to figure out what to use in a 02 Golf and and 05 Jetta, both automatic transmission cars, 122K and 42K miles, respectively. Bob Fout has been a big help directing me in the search. I gather than Mobil 1 TDT 5-40 would be good for both. Is that right?

Remember that TDT is not VW approved, and thus, I would not recommend it for use in your '05 Jetta.

G

GMARK · Feb 9, 2007

Bob_Fout said:
I hear 2.9 is the norm for HT/HS....both M1 TDT and Rotella T are 2.9.

Surly TDT or Rotella protect as well or better than Sytnec at temp?

Yup, a VE ALH.

FYI-

HT/HS for 505.00 & 505.01 = over 3.5
HT/HS for 506.00 & 506.01 = 2.9-3.4

G

TornadoRed · Feb 9, 2007

mmery said:
I gather than Mobil 1 TDT 5-40 would be good for both. Is that right?

GMARK is right. He is using the Mobil 1 in his PD engine, but he's taking a risk and he knows it. If you want to experiment with your 2005 Jetta's engine by using an API-rated oil instead of a VW505.01-spec oil in your PD engine, that's your choice. But you should at least hold off until the end of the warranty period.

The Mobil 1 5w40 TDT will be just fine in your 2002 TDI, or any other 2003-and-earlier TDI.

Bob_Fout · Feb 9, 2007

GMARK said:
FYI-

HT/HS for 505.00 & 505.01 = over 3.5
HT/HS for 506.00 & 506.01 = 2.9-3.4

G

Soo....the lower HT/HS is compensated by what?

wjdell · Feb 9, 2007

usually additives - Boron - but the count is low at 100

Long_Range · Feb 9, 2007

Bob_Fout said:
Soo....the lower HT/HS is compensated by what?

A feeble attempt to replace film strength with anti wear additives.
Seams to work as long as you have no significant soot.

Long_Range · Feb 9, 2007

Being the lead foot that I am ½ % per 5000 miles seams to be my soot accumulation rate.
In spite of that my iron wear was 29 after 10,182 miles with Elf DID 505.01 and an Amsoil bypass filter. 44,190 total miles on unit. As all diesel geeks am hoping for some reduction in soot with the new sulfur free fuel.

When I purchased this little diesel rocket. My intent was to have a quick car that would last over ½ million miles or twenty years. So far it's right on tract.

Bob_Fout · Feb 10, 2007

Long_Range said:
A feeble attempt to replace film strength with anti wear additives.
Seams to work as long as you have no significant soot.

I doubt anyone here would say Syntec is superior to M1 TDT or Rotella T though, even at 10K OCI.

wjdell · Feb 10, 2007

Bob on paper the Mobil seems like a better product, but go over to bitog and make head to head comparison for yourself.

Bob_Fout · Feb 10, 2007

I've been there.

Jist is both M1 TDT and Rotella T are great oils.

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck vs. Shell Rotella T vs. Castrol Syntec

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