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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old April 20th, 2003, 19:42   #1
oldpoopie
 
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

Hi all.

I was looking in the bentley and couldnt find the info on brake fluid change. I plan on completely flushing everything, including the abs and clutch. Anyone able to give the appropriate directions or link to such, will be greatly appreciated.
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Old April 20th, 2003, 19:52   #2
Birdman
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Near Hagerstown MD.
Fuel Economy: 55 summer 50 winter
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

The Bentley CD has the directions on all that. But it won,t let you cut and paste them. You also need the Vag-com to do the ABS module
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Old April 20th, 2003, 19:53   #3
Fast_SilverTDI
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Fuel Economy: 5.6/100
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

It's really simple. To bleed your brakes, simply start with your passenger rear wheel, driver side rear wheel, passenger fr then drivers front, then clutch. When you're pumping the pedal, make sure you put a block of wood under the brake pedal so you don't push it past what you normally would with regular braking. This will prevent damage to the master cylinder by dragging crap on the piston through the seals. Then bleed your clutch. Make sure you DO NOT use DOT 5 fluid. You'll destroy your braking system by doing so. You might want to buy yourself a one man bleeder kit. It's a check valve that allows you to push fluid out but it won't allow any air back into the lines. This way, you don't need 2 people to do the job. Also, most importantly don't let the resevoir empty out otherwise you'll have to re-bleed all your calipers and clutch again because it'll let air into the system. Always keep it topped right up!

Good luck
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Old April 20th, 2003, 19:58   #4
Birdman
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Near Hagerstown MD.
Fuel Economy: 55 summer 50 winter
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

IF you allow one part of the resevoir to run dry YOU have to Bleed the ABS module according to the bentley CD. The Vag-com runs the ABS unit while you bleed both front brakes at the same time and gets any air trapped in the ABS pistons out.
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Old April 20th, 2003, 19:59   #5
oldpoopie
 
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Location: Portland Oregon
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

right, I have the vag-com, an oil extractor, and its associated brake fluid vac-bleed attachment.

I guess what I want to know is, when do I do the abs pump, before I do the front brakes, after the back brakes, and before the clutch, or what?
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Old April 20th, 2003, 20:02   #6
oldpoopie
 
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Location: Portland Oregon
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

nevermind, we must have posted at the same time birdman. So let me understand.... I bleed the back brakes, then the abs which will in turn bleed the front brakes, then the clutch.

Correct?
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Old April 21st, 2003, 11:34   #7
Birdman
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Fuel Economy: 55 summer 50 winter
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

IF you want to BLEED the abs pump you need a vag-com no way around it. you should also have the Bentley CD which explains in detail haw to to it. I can't print and fax the info or i would. When doing the pump you do BOTH front wheels at the same time then do the RT rear, LF rear. RT front ,LF Front, just like any car normal. As stated above you only have to bleed the ABS unit IF the reservoir has been empty.
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Old April 21st, 2003, 12:28   #8
Dean_S
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lawrence Kansas
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

Bleeding the brakes is something most folks don't look forward to. But you can get much of the benefits by removing the fluid at the reservoir and replacing once a year. These euro designed systems with reserviours vented to atmosphere suck. Thats how moisture gets in and the most moisture contaminated fluid will be in the reserviour. In any case, you should do this before bleeding, as this will prevent pumping the worst through the length of the system. If you want to get extreme about it, you can empty it, then force the caliper pistons back and emtoy again. With the rear brakes you would have to remove the pads and use the proper tool to get the piston back in, and that is probably too much unless you are replacing the pads anyways.

And don't forget that block of wood behind the brake petal!!!
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Old April 21st, 2003, 12:44   #9
cosmic
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Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

Brake fluid change link

I did not bleed the ABS unit. Just the 4 corners and the clutch.

Good luck.
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Old April 21st, 2003, 18:21   #10
jettajim
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Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

Everyone: look at the Bentley. The brake lines from the wheels go thru the ABS and then to the res. OK, now what happens to the fluid in the res as you suck it out of a brake line? The res fluid drops. This simply means that when the car is off, the ABS is a straight thru by-pass to the res. Another meaning of this setup is this: when you bleed the brake lines, you are also bleeding the ABS. The only thing you need the vagcom for is if you actually replace the ABS electronic module (this is secured to the hydraulic unit) and only to code the unit to communicate with the ECM.

Do as someone above stated and drain the res (but not dry of course) first before bleeding the brakes. Fill it up with fresh DOT 4 and begin. It's just like any other car.

edited for this info: I have tried several different 1-man brake bleeders and they all suck (well, not really, they're just not worth the time or money). Bleed them the old fashioned way--with 2 people. It's MUCH faster and not nearly as messy!

Another item cosmic's post reminded me of is the clutch. You might as well do this at the same time since you're already in there
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Old April 21st, 2003, 19:07   #11
Birdman
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Fuel Economy: 55 summer 50 winter
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

[b] oldpoopie asked for the proper way according to the bentley to bleed the ABS , brakes , and clutch. I have tried to relay that. oldpoopie I have bleed the ABS the proper way many times and if it were my car Leave it alone UNLESS one of the chambers on the resevoir goes dry. I would get as much out of it and fill with fresh before starting. You may find the Information on Bleeding the ABS unit under 01 On Board Diagnostic (OBD),ABS ITT Mk 20 IE On Board Diagnostic (OBD) program. Not under brakes on the CD bentley. It may be in the same place in paper version. Sorry for the bold don't know why it did that.
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Old April 21st, 2003, 19:48   #12
oldpoopie
 
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Location: Portland Oregon
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

well, here is the deal, back in the fall, when I did the vr6/1.8t front brake swap, I bled the brakes, but didnt know what I was doing, and the res went dry, so yes, I got that gurgle gurgle sound.....

Yes, I am a stupid man.

Now to the point, I want to... have to do a complete brake flush, and since I did such a bad job last time and my pedal feel is so crapy, I want to do it complete and by the book. Thanks for the info birdman, much appreciated. I should have the super blue by friday, so I'm hoping to do this next monday.
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Old April 21st, 2003, 20:03   #13
Birdman
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Near Hagerstown MD.
Fuel Economy: 55 summer 50 winter
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

Note long post. Hope this comes through so if you can,t find it in your paper Manuel you will have some idea what to do and why you need the Vag-com. The Vag-com will walk you through it just keep hitting the up button after each time you go through the process.
Basic setting, initiating

Special tools and equipment

V.A.G 1869 Brake filling and bleeder unit

Function 04 "Initiate basic settings" performs several functions:

Display group 001 is required to bleed the hydraulic system Page 01-91

Note:

The basic setting to bleed the hydraulic unit is only required when one chamber of the brake fluid reservoir is completely empty.

The basic setting is used to bleed the hydraulic unit only. The brake system must be bleed separately.



Repair Manual, Brake System, Repair Group 47




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01-92


Display group number 01: Bleeding hydraulic unit.

Note:

All functions which could previously be performed with V.A.G 1551 can also be performed with the tester VAS 5051.

- Connect brake filling and bleeder unit V.A.G 1869.

- Connect V.A.G 1551 Scan Tool and select (address word 03) "Brake electronics" with ignition switched on; Page 01-23

Rapid data transfer HELP

Select function XX

Indicated on display

- Press keys 0 and 4. (The function "Initiating basic setting" is selected with 04).

Rapid data transfer Q

04 - Basic setting

Indicated on display

- Confirm entry with key Q.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01-93


Basic setting HELP

Enter display group number XXX

Indicated on display:

- Press keys 0, 0 and 1
- Confirm entry with key Q.

System in basic setting 1

Depress pedal and hold...

Indicated on display:

- Operate pedal with substantial foot pressure and hold.
Pedal moves down
Hydraulic pump runs
Pedal comes back

System in basic setting 1

Rel. pedal; FR/FL bleed screw OPEN <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.

System in basic setting 2

Please wait...(10 secs.)

Indicated on display

Hydraulic pump runs

System in basic setting 2

Depr. pedal 10X; bleed screw CLOSED <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01-94


System in basic setting 3

Depress pedal and hold...

Indicated on display

- Operate pedal with substantial foot pressure and hold.
Pedal moves down
Hydraulic pump runs
Pedal comes back

System in basic setting 3

Rel. pedal; FR/FL bleed screw OPEN <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.

System in basic setting 4

Please wait...(10 secs.)

Indicated on display

Hydraulic pump runs

System in basic setting 4

Depr. pedal 10X; bleed screw CLOSED <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01-95


System in basic setting 5

Depress pedal and hold...

Indicated on display

- Operate pedal with substantial foot pressure and hold.
Pedal moves down
Hydraulic pump runs
Pedal comes back

System in basic setting 5

Rel. pedal; FR/FL bleed screw OPEN <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.

System in basic setting 6

Please wait...(10 secs.)

Indicated on display

Hydraulic pump runs

System in basic setting 6

Depr. pedal 10X; bleed screw CLOSED <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01-96


System in basic setting 7

Depress pedal and hold...

Indicated on display

- Operate pedal with substantial foot pressure and hold.
Pedal moves down
Hydraulic pump runs
Pedal comes back

System in basic setting 7

Rel. pedal; FR/FL bleed screw OPEN <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.

System in basic setting 8

Please wait...(10 secs.)

Indicated on display

Hydraulic pump runs

System in basic setting 8

Depr. pedal 10X; bleed screw CLOSED <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01-97


System in basic setting 9

Depress pedal and hold...

Indicated on display

- Operate pedal with substantial foot pressure and hold.
Pedal moves down
Hydraulic pump runs
Pedal comes back

System in basic setting 9

Rel. pedal; FR/FL bleed screw OPEN <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.

System in basic setting 10

Please wait...(10 secs.)

Indicated on display

Hydraulic pump runs

System in basic setting 10

Depr. pedal 10X; bleed screw CLOSED <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01-98


System in basic setting 11

Depress pedal and hold...

Indicated on display

- Operate pedal with substantial foot pressure and hold.
Pedal moves down
Hydraulic pump runs
Pedal comes back

System in basic setting 11

Rel. pedal; FR/FL bleed screw OPEN <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.

System in basic setting 12

Please wait...(10 secs.)

Indicated on display

Hydraulic pump runs

System in basic setting 12

Depr. pedal 10X; bleed screw CLOSED <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01-99


System in basic setting 13

Depress pedal and hold...

Indicated on display

- Operate pedal with substantial foot pressure and hold.
Pedal moves down
Hydraulic pump runs

System in basic setting 13

Rel. pedal; FR/FL bleed screw OPEN <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.

System in basic setting 14

Please wait...(10 secs.)

Indicated on display

Hydraulic pump runs

System in basic setting 14

Depr. pedal 10X; bleed screw CLOSED <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01-100


System in basic setting 15

Depress pedal and hold...

Indicated on display

- Operate pedal with substantial foot pressure and hold.
Pedal moves down
Hydraulic pump runs
Pedal comes back

System in basic setting 15

Rel. pedal; FR/FL bleed screw OPEN <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.

System in basic setting 16

Please wait...(10 secs.)

Indicated on display

Hydraulic pump runs

System in basic setting 16

Depr. pedal 10X; bleed screw CLOSED <3>

Indicated on display

- Press key 3 on VAG 1551 or arrow up key on VAS 5051.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

01-101


System in basic setting 17

Partial bleeding ended

Indicated on display

- Press key.

Rapid data transfer HELP

Select function XX

Indicated on display

- Press keys -0- and -6- to end output.

Rapid data transfer Q

06 - End output

Indicated on display

- Confirm entry with Q key.

Rapid data transfer Help

Enter address word XX

Indicated on display

- Press C key.
- Switch ignition off.
- Disconnect connections to V.A.G 1551 Scan Tool.
- Bleed brake system.

The basic setting is used to bleed the hydraulic unit only. The brake system must be bleed separately.

Repair Manual, Brake System, Repair Group 47; Bleeding brake system, vehicles with and without ABS

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Old April 21st, 2003, 20:04   #14
jettajim
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: near Houston
Fuel Economy: 6spd=46 lifetime, '12 Passat gasser-terrible
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

birdman, so what's the proper way to bleed the ABS? I read my paper Bentley and read nothing about specifically flushing the ABS unit. They only mention having to use a vagcom when switching units--and that's only to code it. Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Jim
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Old April 21st, 2003, 20:09   #15
jettajim
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: near Houston
Fuel Economy: 6spd=46 lifetime, '12 Passat gasser-terrible
Default need complete brake fluid swap procedure.

I wrote my post during your last post. Thanks for the info!
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