www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW B5 Passat TDIs

VW B5 Passat TDIs This is a general discussion about B5 Passat(>98 (2004-2005 in North America)). Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 21st, 2019, 17:49   #16
Lotawood
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: montana
Default

I put a oil pressure gauge in my Passat after a BSD. I have the gauge in a temporary spot and would like to have some location figured out that looks more stock.
I got a oil pressure switch relocation kit that I liked for the engine compartment.
http://www.42draftdesigns.com/vw-aud...elocation-kit/
Then I got an isspro gauge from Cascade German that matches the instrument cluster.
https://www.cascadegerman.com/produc...pro-0-100-psi/
It is electric.

Last edited by Lotawood; August 21st, 2019 at 17:57. Reason: ad picture
Lotawood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2019, 09:39   #17
zzdiesel
Veteran Member
Default

Apparently if you make sure your oil is at full, if you drain and measure it there is a significant difference between stock and deleted.
zzdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2019, 13:40   #18
Franko6
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sw Missouri
Default

I think the AMC, although they claim to be made in Spain, we can prove they were not. The longevity doesn't seem to be that great, as we've seen two go out in less than 25,000 miles.

Although our cam is not the cheap way to go, doing the job once and getting exceptional mileage from a cam (also with three year warranty), and the same cam as sold by Cascade German, which is our cam, you can't go wrong. We have thousands installed and the most durable has over 450,000 additional miles. Many are over 250,000, so we built with life-expectancy in mind. btw; the reason for the additional life expectancy is we modify the cam profile from the factory 'solid lifter' profile to a true hydraulic profile. Our cam grinder when first seeing this engineering mistake said, "I don't understand what they were thinking." It's just wrong. So, I would not recommend going back with a stock cam unless you are only interested in a short cam life. Second-time stock cams rarely perform as well as the original.

Replacing the oil pump is a chore, as the subframe needs to be dropped. We also provide the BSM delete parts and the tools that make changing out the big sprocket easy. Also, there are alignment pins that are needed when bolting the subframe back into place. We loan them along with the timing belt tools, if you need those.
__________________
Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
Franko6tdi@gmail.com

'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta
Franko6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2019, 14:59   #19
d0u8l3m
Veteran Member
 
d0u8l3m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Connecticut
TDI(s): B5.5 Passat
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko6 View Post
I think the AMC, although they claim to be made in Spain, we can prove they were not. The longevity doesn't seem to be that great, as we've seen two go out in less than 25,000 miles.
Although our cam is not the cheap way to go, doing the job once and getting exceptional mileage from a cam (also with three year warranty), and the same cam as sold by Cascade German, which is our cam, you can't go wrong. We have thousands installed and the most durable has over 450,000 additional miles. Many are over 250,000, so we built with life-expectancy in mind. btw; the reason for the additional life expectancy is we modify the cam profile from the factory 'solid lifter' profile to a true hydraulic profile. Our cam grinder when first seeing this engineering mistake said, "I don't understand what they were thinking." It's just wrong. So, I would not recommend going back with a stock cam unless you are only interested in a short cam life. Second-time stock cams rarely perform as well as the original.
Replacing the oil pump is a chore, as the subframe needs to be dropped. We also provide the BSM delete parts and the tools that make changing out the big sprocket easy. Also, there are alignment pins that are needed when bolting the subframe back into place. We loan them along with the timing belt tools, if you need those.
I'd like to see your proof on where the AMC cams are made, as idParts claims otherwise. Just looking for accurate info.
d0u8l3m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2019, 18:13   #20
Kravt
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Lexington, Ky
TDI(s): 2005 Passat
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko6 View Post
I think the AMC, although they claim to be made in Spain, we can prove they were not. The longevity doesn't seem to be that great, as we've seen two go out in less than 25,000 miles.

Although our cam is not the cheap way to go, doing the job once and getting exceptional mileage from a cam (also with three year warranty), and the same cam as sold by Cascade German, which is our cam, you can't go wrong. We have thousands installed and the most durable has over 450,000 additional miles. Many are over 250,000, so we built with life-expectancy in mind. btw; the reason for the additional life expectancy is we modify the cam profile from the factory 'solid lifter' profile to a true hydraulic profile. Our cam grinder when first seeing this engineering mistake said, "I don't understand what they were thinking." It's just wrong. So, I would not recommend going back with a stock cam unless you are only interested in a short cam life. Second-time stock cams rarely perform as well as the original.

Replacing the oil pump is a chore, as the subframe needs to be dropped. We also provide the BSM delete parts and the tools that make changing out the big sprocket easy. Also, there are alignment pins that are needed when bolting the subframe back into place. We loan them along with the timing belt tools, if you need those.

With all due respect, I don't think it makes financial sense for me personally to use one of your cams. Sure the AMC (Estas) one will fail, but from what I gather, I should get at least another timing belt change or two out of it. If the car still means enough to me at that point (or hasn't died of a different disease), I will likely have better funds to really have fun with the car and go the more expensive reliability/performance route.
Kravt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2019, 18:18   #21
Kravt
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Lexington, Ky
TDI(s): 2005 Passat
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d0u8l3m View Post
I'd like to see your proof on where the AMC cams are made, as idParts claims otherwise. Just looking for accurate info.

I'm interested in this as well. Their website says sold by AMC>Febi>Made by Estas... Located in Turkey.
Kravt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2019, 21:04   #22
Franko6
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sw Missouri
Default

The proof is my cam grinder and a group of cams from about every manufacturer, matched up side-by-side. I did that about 6 years ago and published my findings then. The AMC box I got said, "made in Spain", but that is not just unlikely, I bet the Cam manufacturer printed the boxes! I had all the cams in front of me with an expert cam grinder looking on.

My cam grinder, with 45 years experience pointed out how the cam grind showed a deviation from lateral slop in the grinding wheel arbor, that is as plain as a fingerprint. Several of the cams weren't just made in the same factory, but were made on the SAME MACHINE! As the grinding wheel climbed to the top of the lobe, the wheel would wobble in exactly the same fashion in exactly the same place. This is not coincidence, but characteristic of the machine they were made on. All of the cams were marked with the same Green YAG laser, and even that is a 'fingerprint' unto itself, how it operated.

To top it off, the cams have an excessive chamfer which 1) is a sign of where it came from and 2) increases the early failure of the cam, as reducing the width of an already too narrow cam, especially one with a solid lifter profile, begs for early failure.

What is more, one of the cam offered is touted as BILLET, and you pay even more for it. So, you all might as well know, just because it's billet doesn't make it better. No, to the contrary, for at least 6 years, ALL of the cams are billet, because the process is CHEAPER. That also, I have documented in previous posts. Look it up.

Don't really care if you believe me or not, I know the facts and I've got my proof.

I understand your theory of cam replacement, Kravt. Problem is, if you replace it too often, it gets expensive. And, if not caught in time, can cost you a cylinder head rebuild and all the cam and lifter crap eventually eats up your oil pump. That adds to the time and cost of the build. All that said, the engine is becoming dated, and I know it. Diminishing returns...

Some would rather just do it once. Some just want another 50k. Some just don't care. I guess you are in the 'just replace it again' crowd. Good luck with that theory. I prefer my mantra, "Do It Once and Do It Right".
__________________
Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
Franko6tdi@gmail.com

'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta
Franko6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2019, 21:16   #23
Franko6
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sw Missouri
Default

I forgot to mention...

Because of the tension in the Mid-East, and Turkey, Kolbenschmidt and Febi have returned like dogs to their vomit and are selling Chinese cams.

The last time Kolbenschmidt bought cams from China they were sneaked into our cam grinders hands, they asked, "Hey, what's with the blue boxes?" As we previously have been moving an alternate cam to them. I said, "Check them." Turns out the cams were not properly hardened and the lobes were Rc44, with the journals Rc20. Should be 58-61Rc... I told my grinder to send them all back and blew the whistle on KS for selling CRAP. Now, they are back doing the same thing again. Maybe this time, they are checking the hardness. You think?

Yes, I have a history and I do know what I'm talking about.
__________________
Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
Franko6tdi@gmail.com

'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta
Franko6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2019, 03:46   #24
d0u8l3m
Veteran Member
 
d0u8l3m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Connecticut
TDI(s): B5.5 Passat
Default

I stopped reading after "6 years ago"...I see no valid proof here.

Manufacturers change processes all the time...no one is asking about garbage like Kolbenschmidt. You even posted a long thread about how everything is made billet now a days...now the billet stuff is crap too?

Do you know what is happening in industry today, or are you just trying to promote your own product?

"Don't really care if you believe me or not, I know the facts and I've got my proof."...you must not realize how niche this market actually is, does word of mouth not mean anything anymore? I'd honestly love to get a "performance" cam but not from someone who gets defensive about when us OCD people ask questions.

If Boeing, or Airbus asks my company about quality/reliability do you think we would get away with telling them, here's some test data from 6 years ago and that's it? Probably not, so thanks for letting us know where the industry was back then, but we want information on where the industry is now.

Last edited by d0u8l3m; August 30th, 2019 at 04:27.
d0u8l3m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2019, 10:07   #25
auntulna
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Springfield, MO
Default

By all means, "save" your money. You'll need more of it later on.



These heads and cams were last made for 2006, I think. You're not going to find Boeing/Airbus levels of documentation on them. Also, auto parts sales is a worldwide business with lots of marginal sellers with marginal products.



Eventually, you'll end up thinking or believing something or someone. Why not put some confidence in someone who handles the product everyday, and has actually modified it to be better than OEM?
auntulna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2019, 10:55   #26
Kravt
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Lexington, Ky
TDI(s): 2005 Passat
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko6 View Post
I understand your theory of cam replacement, Kravt. Problem is, if you replace it too often, it gets expensive. And, if not caught in time, can cost you a cylinder head rebuild and all the cam and lifter crap eventually eats up your oil pump. That adds to the time and cost of the build. All that said, the engine is becoming dated, and I know it. Diminishing returns...

Some would rather just do it once. Some just want another 50k. Some just don't care. I guess you are in the 'just replace it again' crowd. Good luck with that theory. I prefer my mantra, "Do It Once and Do It Right".

What you said here begins to address the problem. In the terms of the pocket of a money-conscious grad student such as myself, the cost of using a high value part that will likely outlast the life of my car is not an effective use of my funds at the moment. You state that you've seen a couple camshafts fail quickly, and I do not doubt this. I am in fact taking a risk on putting a lower quality camshaft in my vehicle, but there is simply not enough data to support saying it will most likely only run for 50k. At the same time, there is not data to say that will definitely last for 160k+ either. I feel that it is reasonable to expect that it will last me around 80k at minimum, and if it doesn't I guess I'll eat my words. In 80k, there's plenty that could go wrong with the car in that time to make it financially nonviable, especially considering it is already nearly 15 years old. If the crankshaft does actually go at 80k, and the rest of the car has stood up to the test of time, I will likely do a performance cam. This is due in part to the fact that I will likely have a thicker wallet at that time. But the car standing up well over the years is not guaranteed... there is a healthy chance that even the AMC camshaft will outlast the useful life of the car. I am all for making and buying things that last, but I can't say that I support wasting money, especially when funds are limited and that money could be better used somewhere else.



However, aside from this current conversation I would like to ask you a neutral question just out of my own interest. In your opinion, what are the measurable values (surface hardness, geometry, roughness, material grade, etc) that most impact the longevity of a camshaft?
Kravt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2019, 12:52   #27
JETaah
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: mi 48836
Fuel Economy: 53 max, 42 min, average 46
Default

It might have a lot to do with how the owner gets his/her maintenance done. I mounted one of the aftermarket cams per the owner's request into a BRM and 45K miles later it was significantly worn...sharp lobe edges.

The owner said he took it to the VW for oil changes and figured how could he do better than that. Well, as some may know, the dealer routinely uses 5W30 oil unless you specifically ask for 5W40. That I am sure did nothing to help the situation.

This has happened to one of the upgraded cams with the improved profile as well but with closer to 100K miles on the cam.
__________________
1999.5 a4 Jetta, port matched, RC2, sprint 520's, 1.5" lift kit
1996 Passat B4V, coat hanger supported exhaust system,
Visit me www.martinbergelllc.com
JETaah is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2019, 08:31   #28
Franko6
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sw Missouri
Default

Dou8l3m,

I get what you are saying. I don't mean to come off as defensive, but I don't need acerbic either.

I do have a history. I know the market. I'm limited to what exactly I can say due to 'Vendor Rules'. There is only one time I obliterated those rules to blow JBMorrison out of the water for selling knock-off Bosch nozzles. Last day he was on the club was after my post was put up. I am proud to defend the TDIClub. But I cannot directly attack another vendor for a dubious product, so the rules cut both ways. They are to protect both the good and the bad, just not the blatant.

On the other hand, I have been noted as someone who is deeply involved, do this for a living and am an innovator and producer. Word of Mouth drives my business, as my 'Ma and Pa' shop has produced a lot of great work with very few failures... Thousands of cylinder heads and engines. We have developed our own design for superior H-beam rods, performance upgrades for pistons, exclusive performance piston rings, and that is the tip of the iceberg...

So, when someone comes out disputing our relatively old posts, you could say it's par for the course. But we also do keep current. Can't always lay out every proof or I get banned... vendor rules.

And when you say OCD, my comment is "No, it's CDO... I have to alphabetize it..." And a bit neurotic to boot... I channel my idiosyncrasies.

I've become used to being attacked, like the first time I changed the Bentley book's numbers for a ALH cam sprocket torque from 33ft lbs to 45, you'd have thought I made sacrilege, going against the 'bible'.

Another example: You realize the Bentley makes another mistake on the ALH/BEW piston/ cylinder wall dimensions? They use a 79.46mm piston. It should be 79.44mm. So, yes, I am one to be accurate and in this business, and accuracy counts. I get people upset when I present what to me is obvious.

To lay the question of 'Billet' to rest... I did not say billet is bad. I said it is cheaper.
Your engine is built by the bean counters. So, for them, cheaper is much better.

The original cams in your PD motor as it came from VW were cast steel cams. About the same time, 6-7 years ago for when you don't like my data lag... All of the companies producing cams went to the process of billet for the cost. The difference between billet and cast cam, besides cost, is the billet is linear hardening, whereas the cast cams are directional hardening. That is, when the steel is poured, the tendency is for the pour to freeze first, against the walls of the mold, causing austinetic grain structure, which some may feel is superior. But in our case, directional or linear grain structure makes little difference.

The big advantage of billet is that the cam can be rough-cut machined, ready for hardening in minutes with the modern machining technique. The Landis custom cam cutting machine our cam grinder has in production now can spit a cam out in minutes. Compare the process to the cast process. From melting a pot full of metal, mold production and it's dangers, to prep and additional machine work needed before induction hardening, billet produced cams win hands down.

But do not use the moniker 'Billet' to fool your customers into buying a more expensive cam that is produced EXACTLY the SAME as every other cam producer makes. They are virtually all billet, with a very few exceptions.

As for what we produce as a marketable cam, we know how it works. Great success story. As for AMC, I can only say what I know to be true. We track and poll a lot of information and either can't or won't share it all.

Sometimes, it boils down to who do you trust. I think the bitter truth is better than a sweet lie.
__________________
Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
Franko6tdi@gmail.com

'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta

Last edited by Franko6; August 31st, 2019 at 08:43.
Franko6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2019, 08:33   #29
Franko6
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sw Missouri
Default

Jettahh and I have a long history. The cam of mine that failed is an exception. I never could determine the reason. It might have been one of the Chinese cams that wasn't hardened correctly that 'slipped through the cracks'. We did replace the kit under warranty.
__________________
Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
Franko6tdi@gmail.com

'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta
Franko6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2019, 09:07   #30
JETaah
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: mi 48836
Fuel Economy: 53 max, 42 min, average 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko6 View Post
Jettahh and I have a long history. The cam of mine that failed is an exception. I never could determine the reason. It might have been one of the Chinese cams that wasn't hardened correctly that 'slipped through the cracks'. We did replace the kit under warranty.

I was actually referring to a different case (100K miles worn past the lobe chamfer) where the dealer was using 5W30 507 oil in their car and the owners did not know it. I caught it on the invoice that they showed me.


The first aftermarket cam in my previous post was an AMC (45K failure but with 5W30 oil).
__________________
1999.5 a4 Jetta, port matched, RC2, sprint 520's, 1.5" lift kit
1996 Passat B4V, coat hanger supported exhaust system,
Visit me www.martinbergelllc.com

Last edited by JETaah; August 31st, 2019 at 09:43.
JETaah is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cam pulley wear/Cam bolt re-usable? dislexicmofo VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 8 March 5th, 2012 12:39
BHW Cam Wear... and replacement (pics) CharlieT VW B5 Passat TDIs 91 July 17th, 2011 17:22
Excessive tire wear 3rs VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) 0 February 25th, 2011 14:07
Cam wear on BHW CharlieT VW B5 Passat TDIs 4 September 22nd, 2009 06:35
Mobil 1 5w30, excessive cam wear after 63,000 miles Drivbiwire Fuels & Lubricants 17 August 31st, 2001 11:00


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.23337 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 140.93 Kb. compressed to 119.46 Kb. by saving 21.48 Kb. (15.24%)]