Newbie needs tips on buying '03 Wagon

Hi - I'm a newbie on the search for my first TDI and am looking this afternoon at a manual '03 jetta Wagon. Until now I've just been looking at '05-'06 jettas and Golfs because of problems I've read (Consumer Reports, Edmunds, forums, etc) about for the earlier years with major engine, fuel and electric issues.

If I like the car and it seems ok on the test drive, I'll def have a TDI mechanic look at it, but I'd love anyone's input on what to look for on this '03 wagon so I don't end up buying a car that I'll have to sink thousands of $$ into in the first few years I have it.

Is there a way for a mechanic to know if a certain car is prone to the head cracks, etc that have a been a problem with these models? Are there any other specific things I should have them look at or test that are known issues?

Thanks for any ideas!

btw the asking price seems very high at $12,200 for 123,700 miles...

No way would I pay 12k for a car with 123k miles.

Considering new acquisition

mimmik:

Welcome to the Club. You will find lots of good information here, and widely varying opinions too.

With respect to your looking at the Jetta TDI Wagon, you will find that the prices run higher on the wagons because the cars are rare. I believe the owners realize that and price them higher because of it. I don't know what shape the car is in or what the "blue book" value is on the car, but you should figure that out and determine what price you are comfortable with paying for the car. Make sure you consider any repairs or maintenance issues that you will have to do on the car (like, is the care due/overdue for a timing belt?).

If the price you come up with is less than their asking price then make them an offer. You may be able to negotiate them down to a reasonable price. If they are firm on their price you can walk away knowing that you made them a reasonable offer based on your evaluation and that they are just being unreasonable. You should then keep an eye on whether they sell the car or not. After sitting on the car for several weeks (or months, if necessary) they may begin to think your offer looked good and you may want to recontact them and say your offer still stands. Good luck, and remember there are other wagons that will come up for sale in the future.

Dan

ive never heard of a head crack on an 03.

Consumers reports has some good info, but I find they post the strangest problems. 1 person will write in and say that their windshield cracked for no reason, so that now become a problem on that particular model.

You need to confirm, with an invoice in hand, that the timing belt has been done. If you have nothing in writing, assume it hasn't been done, and get it done by a local guru.

Yep, they did say they knew it was fairly rare and desired, and don't really need to sell right away so are willing to stick it out and see who will pay. Top prices I saw for a GLS (KBB, Edmunds and nada) were $7,450 for private sale and dealer/retail $9,425.

I posted a bit about the timing belt for this wagon on another thread I started for an '05 Golf I'm also looking at (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=264789&page=2), but I did see paperwork for the TB at about 90 or 95k.

I thought that up to '04 there were major engine problems like cracks? Earlier 2000s Audis have them as well as Subarus - or maybe I've just read too many reliability reports over the last couple of months and they're all mixed together in my head?!? But Consumer Reports does give '02-04 Jetta TDIs lots of black circles for major & minor engine problems (and also fuel and electric issues). Would love to hear more about those specifically if anyone knows?

the 04+ suffer from cam wear on some cars. It is an issue that has been blown out of proportion on here. I bought my 04 without fear.

Cracked engines aren't really a problem that we face unless you're doing something dumb to your car

If you want no issues, buy a Honda or a Toyota. VWs require more love, but give back much better driveability, performance, and comfort.

yatzee said:

the 04+ suffer from cam wear on some cars. It is an issue that has been blown out of proportion on here. I bought my 04 without fear.

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I think this is unclear. The PD's do have issues with oil. If you use the wrong oil you will have damage, this is well known and the dealership specifically will not warrant any vehicles that have the wrong oil put in.

Unfortunately, most places you go to to have your oil replaced will use the wrong oil. This is a known issue, and it is not being blown out of proportion.


That being said, maybe you are thinking of the '02's which had a bad batch of cams that ended up with pitting and damage early on?

I have an '04 PD wagon that is almost exactly the same age/mileage (175K km). I bought it in March(?) of this year.

It was VERY well maintained by the original owner, but I have had no issue with it so far.

It is a fairly high-mileage car though, so it has signs of being "used" which bug me.

1) The soft-touch plastics were almost all worn, so I replaced them with the aluminum stuff from a GLI.
2) The windows (especially the rear) are getting VERY "clunky" when they go up and down. This is a problem on the MKIVs and I need to see if the clips are on their way out.
3) Rear axle was "creaking" from the bushings. I replaced the rear axle with one from a GLI and it is worse. I'll get some new bushings put in this winter!
4) The cruise wasn't working for a bit. Turned out to be the clutch switch which had stuck in. Fixed it in about 3 seconds (after spending and hour diagnosing it !!).

Honestly, I think these are very "niggly" issues. I have only owned the car for ~8 months, so it is hard to be able to give a good report on the track record. I did inherit the COMPLETE service record for the car (a manila folder of EVERY receipt for it) and all in all it looks very good. All regular maintenance except for a few small complaints about creaks (these cars are BAD for this IMHO) and the like.

Any way, I'm pleased. And here's the thing, I paid $8K CDN for it (about $6K US at the time). I do believe this is a VERY good price, but $12K+ US is WAY too much for a 7 year old car with that mileage.

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to PM me!

Good luck,
-Chris

Great info, thanks everyone. Maybe I should go buy a TDI in Canada if prices are that good??

Is there much difference in the 'green-ness' of '03-04 vs '05-06 and after with the clean diesel, etc? I'm trying to be as eco-minded about my purchase as I can without going too overboard!

btw, blizzard60 - it did have niggly issues from wear/tear like non-working passenger heated seat and CD player), probably more if I drive it again or take it to a mechanic!

And re: puter's comment about wrong oil, when I was going through their stack of service receipts, there was one from the owner before them who took it to Grease Monkey in early '07 for an oil change and they used regular oil (10W-40 I think) - would a one-time mistake like that be a problem down the road, or only if it was a regular mistake? As far as I could see the other receipts were from TDI knowledgeable mechanics.

mimmik said:

btw, blizzard60 - it did have niggly issues from wear/tear like non-working passenger heated seat and CD player), probably more if I drive it again or take it to a mechanic!

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Sorry I can't really answer your other questions. However, I think my car might have been suffering from this heater symptom too. It's not a problem now as I have GLI Recaros in there now !! But if you want to keep the stock seats I would definitely get that checked out. The elements are sown into the seat covers, so it will be costly to replace!!! I just did a search, and the seat cover for my stock seat from ECS is $275!!!

yikes - a hot water bottle would be a nice, cheap alternative but certainly not as nice!

MiM, welcome to Freddie's! You might want to seek out your local go-to person for a PRE-purchase inspection and review of written history. Buying a used ALH isn't exactly rocket science. I mean, any dipsh|t can learn rocket science

Good luck!

mimmik said:

And re: puter's comment about wrong oil, when I was going through their stack of service receipts, there was one from the owner before them who took it to Grease Monkey in early '07 for an oil change and they used regular oil (10W-40 I think) - would a one-time mistake like that be a problem down the road, or only if it was a regular mistake? As far as I could see the other receipts were from TDI knowledgeable mechanics.

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My comment was in response to someone that posted about the 04 cam issues being blown out of proportion (they aren't).

Your 03 should be safe so long as it's not one of the 03's that were a PD.

That being said, damage could have been done if the wrong oil was in the car for long enough to break down. The ALH is less sensitive than newer vehicles, but the wrong oil will damage it.

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread. Not super-bad misinformation, but small inaccuracies.

2003 TDIs had problems with an early failure of the alternator pulleys -- some owners replaced the entire alternator, but this was not necessary.

Some TDI owners replaced the timing belt earlier than 100k miles -- mine needed replacement at only about 73k miles because of bearing noises coming from one of the roller/idlers. But as long as the correct replacement parts are installed (see "deluxe TB kit), by a TDI expert, there is no reason why the next TB change won't be 100k miles later.

$12+ for an '03 with 120k miles is a bit high. Right now is a very good time to shop for used TDIs -- it is a buyer's market and there are many good TDIs being offered for sale by eager sellers. So you might find a very nice Jetta TDI wagon for less money, and even after spending money a couple thousand on remedial maintenance end up with a better car for less money.

Here's a nice wagon in Indiana:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=265072

Here is another one, in Connecticut, higher miles but even more goodies.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=261082

I just found out today from the repair place of the owner previous to the current owners that they used regular oil at least 3 times other times - would a TDI mechanic doing an inspection for me be able to see any damage if there is any?

And how can you tell if it was a PD or an ALH engine - is that in the owner's manual or not so easy as that?

off the top of my head, PD has metal on the engine cover...ALH(VE) is all plastic

mimmik said:

I just found out today from the repair place of the owner previous to the current owners that they used regular oil at least 3 times other times - would a TDI mechanic doing an inspection for me be able to see any damage if there is any?

And how can you tell if it was a PD or an ALH engine - is that in the owner's manual or not so easy as that?

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MiM, the primary concern with using a non-spec oil is fouling of the piston's oil scraper ring. Not something that is easily inspected unless we look to a cylinder leak down or compression test.

2003 and earlier are all the good engine AKA ALH, etc. The 2004 and newer cars have the PD engine. The CRD design was released in NAmerica in the 2009MY.

hey DD, I though the first half of the 03's may have ALH engines?

all 03`s in NA have the ALH engine

yatzee said:

all 03`s in NA have the ALH engine

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Correct. (Isn't that what I said above, 'puter ?)

sorry, for some reason I read you statement as indicating 2003's and newer were PD's, you were clear, I was stupid

That being said, I still thought that the change to PD happened mid-year 03, but I'm probably wrong.

puter said:

I still thought that the change to PD happened mid-year 03, but I'm probably wrong.

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The 2004 model year began in the middle of 2003 -- my 2003 Golf was one of the very last ones available in California. Before buying it I had already been in contact with an out-of-state dealership concerning 2004 models.

TornadoRed said:

The 2004 model year began in the middle of 2003 -- my 2003 Golf was one of the very last ones available in California. Before buying it I had already been in contact with an out-of-state dealership concerning 2004 models.

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OK, J, are you hinting that there are "2003MY" cars equipped with a PD engine? Please do not bring build date into the discussion... it has nothing to do with nothing for those of us in N America.

No, DD, I am trying to clarify what puter said. "mid-year 2003" but beginning of 2004 model year. No PD engines during the 2003 model year in North America.

America goes by model year, not build date

TornadoRed said:

No PD engines during the 2003 model year in North America.

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Agreed, thanks for re-stating. These poor guys are confused enough as it is

One thing to think about... if they can't use the right oil, or didn't care to ensure the right oil was used... what else did they not care about?

When I bought my '05, the guy was a car fanatic, and was insistant that the right oil was always used. He told me he would always check before anyone went near his car. Sure enough, there was a bottle of 505.01 in the trunk too.

Concat that's a great point - I'm finding that quite a bit with TDIs, that people aren't getting them serviced properly (one I'd love to get in MO is at 101k without a timing belt replacement yet, eek!).

So am I interpreting correctly that an '03 would probably be more reliable and have fewer engine probs than an '04? Or am I still confused?

mimmik said:

Concat that's a great point - I'm finding that quite a bit with TDIs, that people aren't getting them serviced properly (one I'd love to get in MO is at 101k without a timing belt replacement yet, eek!).

So am I interpreting correctly that an '03 would probably be more reliable and have fewer engine probs than an '04? Or am I still confused?

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__. Mim, I bought an '03 wagon from a stealer who swore that the belt had been changed. Car had almost 114K miles on it but he'd get me paperwork to prove it. After about two weeks of waiting for the supposed paperwork to appear, I had a guru change it -- it had not been changed. The belt itself was in remarkably good shape but the bearing in the big idler roller was not happy.

__. But I'm not sure about the reliability/fewer problems part. This wagon has been the most unreliable, troublesome, costly car to run of any I've ever owned (and I've been driving over 45 years).