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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

View Poll Results: Which AMSOIL?
Premium API CJ-4 Diesel Oil (DEO) 100 28.41%
European Car Formula Motor Oil (AFL) 252 71.59%
Voters: 352. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 4th, 2011, 12:29   #1546
Crows Synthetics
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40X40 View Post
Please understand the every reference to Amsoil usage in ANY vehicle other than a TDI on this forum is a waste of your time and ours.

It matters not one whit how well (or poorly) Amsoil does in a non-TDI engine...... We are only concerned with TDIs here.

Perhaps you can correspond with Tooslick via PM instead of muddying the one thread that is allocated on here to your brand.
Tooslick has done a fine job here of providing clear information with a minimum of confusion and sales pressure.

Thanks for your consideration on this matter,

Bill

I think you missed my point completely.

It is just a reference on how well it works in other applications & I wish Amsoil would have said I could use it in the TDI.
Bill
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Old June 4th, 2011, 13:58   #1547
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so it works well in a completely different engine. Good to know.

now, about VW TDIs then.
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Old June 4th, 2011, 14:23   #1548
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If that motor has flat tappets then the info is relevant.


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Old June 4th, 2011, 14:30   #1549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighassassin View Post
If that motor has flat tappets then the info is relevant.


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If the flat tappets are in a TDI, yes. Otherwise NO. Look, there is plenty of TDI/Amsoil experience out there without dragging in every other engine in the universe. If the Amsoil dealer has TDI relevant info, post it. If not, why not leave the Amsoil selling to a dealer that DOES have TDI/Amsoil data???

Bill
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Old June 4th, 2011, 15:59   #1550
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FYI I do have a TDI 2009 and the 2003 PSD as it states in my signature.

Also the flat tappet reference implies it can with stand harsh environments like the TDI does as well.

I am a dealer.
Bill
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Old June 4th, 2011, 17:59   #1551
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I think the Amsoil representative makes as good a point as any other Amsoil dealer to recommend 3000 HDD 5w30 oil, the new AEL 5w30 AME or ARO for the newer PD and common rail TDI diesel engines.

Some would prefer to stick with the VW505.01 & VW507.00 which Amsoil has never had any of their oils certified as.

Certainly though TDI owners are free to choose from either the Amsoil offerings or any of the Certified VW505/507 oils offered widely elsewhere.

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Old June 4th, 2011, 23:28   #1552
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Bill,

The VW 507.00 oils like AEL aren't the best choice for the PD engines either. The results with those have been very mixed. I'm very familiar with the additive chemistry of all these Amsoil products and the Series 3000 is too thin for the PD engines, period. Most of your larger diesel engines have rollerized valveltrains and the results simply don't translate to the TDI. It really is a somewhat unique application with regards to lube requirements.

TS
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Old June 5th, 2011, 06:42   #1553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSlick View Post
Bill,

The VW 507.00 oils like AEL aren't the best choice for the PD engines either. The results with those have been very mixed. I'm very familiar with the additive chemistry of all these Amsoil products and the Series 3000 is too thin for the PD engines, period. Most of your larger diesel engines have rollerized valveltrains and the results simply don't translate to the TDI. It really is a somewhat unique application with regards to lube requirements.

TS
Thanks for that explanation.
Bill
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Old June 5th, 2011, 07:17   #1554
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Bill,

I've been following this board for 12 years and have probably reviewed several hundred oil analyses from TDI's. Folks have tried all these things you've considered doing and we now know what works and what doesnt. For example, the VW 506.01 Spec oils were tried in the PD engines when they first came out. This is a thin, 0w-30 oil that's formulated to improve fuel efficiency. It has lots of ZDDP as well as a fair amount of moly. There were some horrible results with this very thin oil in the PD's, as well as in some earlier variants of the TDI engine. By contrast, results with the 5w-40, API spec diesel oils (Mobil 1/TDT, Amsoil DEO, Shell Rotella T, Schaeffers, etc), in the PD's have been overwhelmingly
excellent.

You're certainly welcome to experiment and try different types of oils in these engines. But I try to limit those experiments to my personal vehicles & equipment.

TS
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Old June 5th, 2011, 19:58   #1555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSlick View Post


You're certainly welcome to experiment and try different types of oils in these engines. But I try to limit those experiments to my personal vehicles & equipment.

TS

I'd agree that experimental use of Non-VW505/507 oils should be approached with ample caveats and never recommended to others, experiments should be limited to personal vehicles and equipment.

However you, like every other Amsoil dealer I can recall, have also gone off the reservation and recommended commercial products that not even Amsoil suggests for this application.

As an Amsoil agent and commercial salesman are you warranting the use of, and fully indemnifying the TDI PD owners that follow your professional recommendation from just yesterday: "I actually think the best Amsoil product for the VW PD's is their 10w-40/AMO"

It's a legitimate question to ask, whose responsible when you, a professional representative and agent of Amsoil, push and sell a product for an application and it destroys an engine down the road?

Last edited by SuburbanTDI; June 5th, 2011 at 20:01.
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Old June 5th, 2011, 20:02   #1556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanTDI View Post
I'd agree that experimental use of Non-VW505/507 oils should be approached with ample caveats and never recommended to others, experiments should be limited to personal vehicles and equipment.
However you, like every other Amsoil dealer I can recall, have also gone off the reservation and recommended commercial products that not even Amsoil suggests for this application.
As an Amsoil agent and commercial salesman are you warranting the use of, and fully indemnifying the TDI PD owners that follow your professional recommendation: "I actually think the best Amsoil product for the VW PD's is their 10w-40/AMO"
It's a legitimate question to ask, whose responsible when you, a professional representative and agent of Amsoil, push and sell a product for an application and it destroys an engine down the road?
No such relationship exists. Amsoil dealers are independent, not Amsoil employees.

What happens when TDT or T6 destroys an engine based on recommendations on this site?
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Old June 5th, 2011, 20:05   #1557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Fout View Post
No such relationship exists. Amsoil dealers are independent, not Amsoil employees.
What happens when TDT or T6 destroys an engine based on recommendations on this site?




So the Amsoil warranty is useless?

Using what's recommended by your Amsoil professional is at your own risk?
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Old June 6th, 2011, 02:48   #1558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Fout View Post
Post #1523. Without specifics there's not much of a statement is it? Some specifics may include:

"I don't agree with Amsoil allowing extended drains"
"I don't agree with Amsoil not being officially tested"
"I don't agree with their testing or marketing methods"

Any of those?
Post # 1523 was mine. I repeat, "I recommend that you be guided by the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations with respect to lubricant types and specifications; rather than hype from a lubricant manufacturer or blender. VW includes this information in the materials that came with the car."

It appears that you advocate disregarding the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations/admonishments with respect to lubricant 'certifications' and instead advocate that folks be guided by advertising copy and brochure hype from lubricant marketers. Fair characterization? If so, I respectfully disagree. While API (as one example) certification entails some expense, it (and or others) is the price of admission to the sandlot, IMO. It's not that I "distrust" marketers of non-certified products...
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Old June 6th, 2011, 07:46   #1559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanTDI View Post
So the Amsoil warranty is useless?

Using what's recommended by your Amsoil professional is at your own risk?
The Amsoil warranty is not useless. Follow your OEM recommendations if you want that (AFL in a PD). Don't expect them to warranty a factory mechanical issue though, even if you used the oil specified by the OEM.

What I mean is this: Say you use Castrol TXT 505.01 [or other 505.01 oil] in your PD, and have cam issues at 100K miles. Neither VW nor Castrol [or other company] will do anything about it. Out of factory warranty and it's not a lubricant failure.

Same situation with an API oil like TDT, T6, et al. Neither the lubricant manufacturer or the automotive manufacturer have any obligation.

Since 2004 or 2005 we've seen how CI-4+ and CJ-4 oils won't kill a PD cam, and may actually be better than 505.01. This is not news to anyone here. AMO is similar to the old Delvac 1 and CI-4+ TDT.
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Old June 6th, 2011, 08:04   #1560
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Amsoils recommended product for the PD's is their 5w-40 European Formula, which uses a VW 502.00/505.01 additive chemistry. However as we've seen, a fair number of PD engines still wear out pre-maturely with these oils. Since the vast majority of PD engines are now out of warranty, it makes sense to try some of these HD diesel oils. I wouldn't characterize it as experimenting, due to the number of people already doing this with excellent long term results.

I've had excellent reports from users of the Amsoil 10w-40 in earlier TDI's going back over ten years. I fully expect it will work as well in the PD's, given it's physical/chemical properties (HT/HS viscosity, ZDDP level, low volatility, etc)

TS
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