Life expectancy

Hi, this is my first real post. I have been looking for a TDI for about 6 months at a very specific price range and mileage. I was seeing cars go over and stay at my budget at 150k+. Actually, I've seen a WIDE range of prices for all sorts of miles. My bank would grant a loan for a diesel vehicle up to 150k when they cut off gasoline cars at 100k. After 6 months of searching I found a Beetle (I would have preferred a Jetta but I'm loving the Beetle) at 88k for just RIGHT above my budget, so I bought it.

My biggest question is what is the life expectancy of these engines in terms of miles? I know some sales pitches claim 400k, but these are no 80's mercedes. I haven't really seen anyone talk about their ultra high mileage TDI's because most of you bigtime enthusiast own like more than one TDI. I hope I get to that point one day...

So long story short: What kind of high mileage can I expect out of my 2001 Beetle TDI?

88K is just breaking in for a TDI. A well-maintained engine should last over 300K.

I'm "only" at 289k miles in my 02 Golf TDI and it's still way to early to tell how long the engine will last.

ditto.

Is maintaining the engine any more difficult than just doing all of the scheduled maintence and fixing problems as they occur? This also my first 'real' car.

If you stay on top of things, use the right fluids and parts, maintenance is pretty easy.

My TDI is the first car I have owned on which I have done my own work. The only thing that is major maintenance that I will not personally touch is the timing belt. I take it to a guru for that. TDIs of that vintage are great to learn on.

My Brother's A3 TDI is sitting at 438,000km now. A bit more of a puff of blue smoke on startup now than mine which is at 120k.
He doesn't believe in maintanence either. He did his TB at just shy of 220k

Do a search on here for high mileage TDIs and you'll find hundreds of posts (many of which are mine). There are lots of 300,000 + mile cars out there.

Of course, it all depends on how it's driven, what conditions it's driven in, and your willingness to to hit problems early. It's not a Honda or Toyota....thank goodness!

What year is your Beetle, what tranny does it have? The critical things are oil changes and timing belt changes. You only have to change the oil every 10K miles but have to use the right oil 5W40 Full Synthetic 505.00 VAG or better, it can be an API CJ-4 rated oil if its not the PD engine so that opens up lots of options. The maintenance load isn't bad, just change the filters (easy), get a vacuum extractor for oil changes (easy) and you have got most of it beat, find a Guru for the odd things like intake cleaning and timing belts or learn to do it yourself.....

Your engine will last a long time, since you are in a low-salt zone for winter driving your body should last too. Put good fluids in it, change fluids as required (only G12 in the cooling system and DOT 4 in the brake lines) and you car will serve you well.

K5ING said:

Do a search on here for high mileage TDIs and you'll find hundreds of posts (many of which are mine). There are lots of 300,000 + mile cars out there.

Of course, it all depends on how it's driven, what conditions it's driven in, and your willingness to to hit problems early. It's not a Honda or Toyota....thank goodness!

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Whats wrong with honadas or toyotas?
I have Audi a6 2.5 tdi and my good friend have a honda accord 2005 2.2 turbo diesel and i must say that engine is more than great.Its very(VERY) quiet and when i was driving it by mmyself i couldnt belive its diesel.It gives a 55+ mpg in city and pulls like train.I am thinking about getting one next year.

You forget, gdjohny, that we don't get the Honda or Toyota diesels over here in the States. Only the gas versions. We can only dream for now.

gdjohny said:

Whats wrong with honadas or toyotas?
I have Audi a6 2.5 tdi and my good friend have a honda accord 2005 2.2 turbo diesel and i must say that engine is more than great.Its very(VERY) quiet and when i was driving it by mmyself i couldnt belive its diesel.It gives a 55+ mpg in city and pulls like train.I am thinking about getting one next year.

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Yeah, we don't have them on this side of the pond. But we do have Ford Excursions and Suburbans to take the family around in!!! Don't you want one of those?

NorthernMage said:

What year is your Beetle, what tranny does it have? The critical things are oil changes and timing belt changes. You only have to change the oil every 10K miles but have to use the right oil 5W40 Full Synthetic 505.00 VAG or better, it can be an API CJ-4 rated oil if its not the PD engine so that opens up lots of options. The maintenance load isn't bad, just change the filters (easy), get a vacuum extractor for oil changes (easy) and you have got most of it beat, find a Guru for the odd things like intake cleaning and timing belts or learn to do it yourself.....

Your engine will last a long time, since you are in a low-salt zone for winter driving your body should last too. Put good fluids in it, change fluids as required (only G12 in the cooling system and DOT 4 in the brake lines) and you car will serve you well.

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it's 2001 and it's 5spd manual. Which is another thing... I've been learning to drive stick. My first fill up calculated 29mpg, which is twice as much as the POS car is replaced but I can't wait for my 45ish tank

I saw one thing talking about sucking out the oil, what is to be gained from doing that? I've literally changed oil one time on another car and extracting the existing oil wasn't in the steps. Am I missing something?

"Sucking out the oil" is accomplished with a vacuum extractor AKA a Pela 6000, Mity Vac etc, usually available from a Marine Supply store like West Marine. They were designed to get oil out of inboard marine engines that you can't get underneath to drain. This lets you stick the tube down the dipstick hole, pump up the vacuum on the Pela and watch the oil being sucked up into the container. This takes 10 minutes or so, at the same time you undo the cap from the oil filter, which is also on top of the engine, take out the oil filter element and when you have sucked all the oil out of the sump you stick the tube down in the oil filter hole and suck out the oil down there. Then you put in the new filter element, put the cap back on and fill up the car with oil. You don't have to get under the car or open any drain plugs, there is no drip tray or mess on the garage floor and all the old oil is already in the container ready to be poured back into the jug the new oil came out of so you can recycle it...... very clean and painless.

You can still do it the old fashioned way, put it up on jacks and remove the belly pan (the engine is fully enclosed underneath to protect it from dirt and debris), then remove the drain plug, replace the crush washer and retorque it back into the very soft aluminium sump, being careful not to overtighten and strip the plug.... in the meantime you need a drip tray to catch the oil and you need to slide in and out from under the car - ands its tight under there..... Depends how much you drive, I change my oil twice a year since I put on more than 10K miles per year. You could pay the dealership whatever they charge $80.00+ but that would buy you a Pela, I would rather do my own changes, you know what you put in and you know its done right.....

NorthernMage said:

"Sucking out the oil" is accomplished with a vacuum extractor AKA a Pela 6000, Mity Vac etc, usually available from a Marine Supply store like West Marine. They were designed to get oil out of inboard marine engines that you can't get underneath to drain. This lets you stick the tube down the dipstick hole, pump up the vacuum on the Pela and watch the oil being sucked up into the container. This takes 10 minutes or so, at the same time you undo the cap from the oil filter, which is also on top of the engine, take out the oil filter element and when you have sucked all the oil out of the sump you stick the tube down in the oil filter hole and suck out the oil down there. Then you put in the new filter element, put the cap back on and fill up the car with oil. You don't have to get under the car or open any drain plugs, there is no drip tray or mess on the garage floor and all the old oil is already in the container ready to be poured back into the jug the new oil came out of so you can recycle it...... very clean and painless.

You can still do it the old fashioned way, put it up on jacks and remove the belly pan (the engine is fully enclosed underneath to protect it from dirt and debris), then remove the drain plug, replace the crush washer and retorque it back into the very soft aluminium sump, being careful not to overtighten and strip the plug.... in the meantime you need a drip tray to catch the oil and you need to slide in and out from under the car - ands its tight under there..... Depends how much you drive, I change my oil twice a year since I put on more than 10K miles per year. You could pay the dealership whatever they charge $80.00+ but that would buy you a Pela, I would rather do my own changes, you know what you put in and you know its done right.....

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I can use the Mity Vac to pump fuel back into the fuel filter as well correct?

I think you have sold me on the concept 100%. I like the idea of a quick oil change. I suction from the dipstick hole right? And it seems like everyone is comfortable with 10k oil changes, though this older german mechanic was steering me away from synthetic and 10k oil changes. I'ma say this community as a whole has more experience than he does.

I bought the car from an AutoNation where they said, they didn't show it on paper, that they topped off the fluids. I am weary as to what fluids they used. They also said the changed the oil, and put it on paper and it does say 5w40, but I am still weary as to when its next oil change should be because I am not certain whats in it. They put one of those oil change stickers for 3k. The way I see it they were either being really precautious or...

Yes the Mity Vac or Pela or whatever Harbor Freight knockoff is available will pull the fuel back into the fuel filter as well. The 10K oil changes and synthetic oil are mandated by VW in their owners manual, many go much longer and now that we have ULSD we may be able to as well.

I would ask what exact oil they put in, it might be gasser oil and there is a difference. It might be non-synthetic which would explain the 3K sticker, I would count this as an engine oil flush and unless they can show they put in Mobil 1 Delvac or similar full synthetic diesel oil just get it changed with the right stuff.....

With the fluid top-offs you have to be sure they "DID NOT TOP OFF THE RADIATOR FLUID WITH ANYTHING BUT G12" this is critical since this is a sealed system and G12 is a permanent fluid that is only changed during a timing belt change. If they put in DexCool then be prepared to flush the whole radiator system. I hope these guys are halfway competent but since this is sealed system it probably did not need any fluid but when you check the spherical header tank the fluid had better be pink in there......

Ask them what brake fluid they used and the answer had better be DOT 4, if you really want to get them going ask them if the mandated two yearly brake flushes had been carried out, you can use you Mity Vac to do this as well. Just attach it to the bleed screw and suck the fluid through making sure to add fluid to the master cylinder as you go.....

I think we may have jerked them around enough but you can make worried sounds and say that you are worried that they might have messed it up, would they pay for it to be checked over at the dealers?????

I plan on grilling them pretty good on it, I doubt they can tell me much about the brake fluid flush as it was a trade in they had taken in like days before. I had taken into an outfit out here to make sure the timing belt had been replaced. They also checked to make sure the fuse box wasnt melting and the injection pump wasnt leaking.

Lets put it like this. There is a white Golf in California that I saw at the TDIfest in 2005. At the time the gent had like 300k on the clock. Last I heard he had over 400k on it. He sure seemed to be fastidious in his maintenance.

He's got 475,000 miles now, but sadly doesn't drive as much these days!

The car is chipped, on it's second clutch (started slipping due to the chip), clutch at 350,000 still looked NEW!

DB

Oil is less expensive than the repairs if the oil in the crankcase is the wrong oil. I would purchase the oil extractor(Pela 6000 or Mightyvac), pick up the correct 505.01 oil and change the oil and filter in order to be safe and sure.
You can also get the Pela Extractor at Cabela's and you can find it on Ebay.

You guys got me worried now.

I've noticed that in the mornings i'll get a blue temp light on that will stay on for like 2 minutes. i read in the owners manual that its an indicator the engine was not warm. i thought it was a nifty feature and it seemed like it was working fine because it only did it in the morning when its coolest out here and not in the 110+ heat in the afternoons here in Arizona.

Well today while leaving work, at 108 degrees the light was on--which was odd--it went out like normal, but then i notice it came back on for just a few MOMENTS about 5 minutes into driving. so now im paranoid the coolant is wrong or some ****. how much is the cost of flushing this, brake fluid, etc.

And is the Pela 6000 all i need to get the oil out or do i need anohter extractor as well? I had some naysayer at work saying the the vac's wouldnt get all the sediment and metal shavings from the oil. Sorry to bother you all with this banter.

I've never used a Pella, but I do use a 12V pump that does the same thing.

The Pella will do fine. You can also move the tube around in the bottom of the oil pan to get it all out. You can even use it to suck the oil out of the filter housing. It's the only way to go!

I just bought the Mityvac 7400 7.3 Liter Fluid Evacuator and it was a breeze on our 2003 New Beetle. Then used it right away on the lawn mower before emptying it. Next up is the Passat, Pressure washer and generator. I've been physically unable to crawl under the car this past year or do any wrenching so this has been the best option since the quick-lube places always seem to overfill(besides their using a vacuum as well!)

Once you see how much oil you suck up out of the bottom of the filter housing, you won't have any worries about what you might miss in the sump.

For the blue temp light coming back on...I haven't experienced that particular issue but it sounds a lot like the Coolant Temperature Sensor is failing intermittantly or the connector just needs to be reseated. It's a fairly easy and cheap replacement item from the dealer. Also should help your MPG numbers if it's sending a lower than actual temp signal to the ECU. Check out this thread http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=194129 (and many others under "Coolant Temperature Sensor".)

There was a bad batch of them that went out earlier this year, even with that being corrected, it seems this is one item that should be sourced directly from the dealer parts department. It is a wear item, if yours is original its probably good maintenance to replace it. It may or may not throw an intermittent Check Engine light.

Considering the low MPG you got your first tank, you might consider replacing the MAF sensor also. TDIPARTS.com is running a special right now. Those are even easier to replace.)

K5ING said:

You forget, gdjohny, that we don't get the Honda or Toyota diesels over here in the States. Only the gas versions. We can only dream for now.

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So what is wrong with Toyota or Honda gas versions?????????

Baumeister said:

I just bought the Mityvac 7400 7.3 Liter Fluid Evacuator and it was a breeze on our 2003 New Beetle. Then used it right away on the lawn mower before emptying it. Next up is the Passat, Pressure washer and generator. I've been physically unable to crawl under the car this past year or do any wrenching so this has been the best option since the quick-lube places always seem to overfill(besides their using a vacuum as well!)

Once you see how much oil you suck up out of the bottom of the filter housing, you won't have any worries about what you might miss in the sump.

For the blue temp light coming back on...I haven't experienced that particular issue but it sounds a lot like the Coolant Temperature Sensor is failing intermittantly or the connector just needs to be reseated. It's a fairly easy and cheap replacement item from the dealer. Also should help your MPG numbers if it's sending a lower than actual temp signal to the ECU. Check out this thread http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=194129 (and many others under "Coolant Temperature Sensor".)

There was a bad batch of them that went out earlier this year, even with that being corrected, it seems this is one item that should be sourced directly from the dealer parts department. It is a wear item, if yours is original its probably good maintenance to replace it. It may or may not throw an intermittent Check Engine light.

Considering the low MPG you got your first tank, you might consider replacing the MAF sensor also. TDIPARTS.com is running a special right now. Those are even easier to replace.)

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I didn't realize my MPG was that low... I'm not sure what a MAF Sensor is or how it fits in. Sorry I am such a noob, is there an explanation somewhere?

I'll definitely look into getting the Coolant Temp Sensor replaced, and as far as an ECU, im just using an iPhone to do the calculation not an actual ECU. If i could figure a good spot to mount a ScanGauge II, I would get one immediately.

h3ndrix, don't worry, be happy.... the brake flush is not a real problem but doing it will firm up your pedal and remove all the water from the system, more of a problem with areas where it freezes and thaws a lot.... I just threw that in to use as a bargaining ploy....

Baumeister is right, the coolant temperature sensor is an item that fails on these cars. If yours has the original black(?) sensor in it then replace it with the revised green version, mine has the green version and it is failing now too, keeps telling me the temperature is too low - which would light up your blue light and tell the ECU to send more fuel to the engine etc, etc.... The sensor is over 5 years old so I will consider it a wear item and replace it, they aren't expensive and are relatively easy to replace. You loose a couple of cups of coolant though so pick up a 1.5 litre jug of Pentosin G12 before you do it just to top up....

I have been using my Pela 6000 for two years now and its worked well, the amount of oil in the bottom of the filter housing, which wouldn't get touched using the old fashioned method, is quite a bit like Baumeister said. I can't speak to metal shavings but tell him that well built, well designer engines don't have metal shavings and that you are sorry that his engine does!!!!

Dariod, there is nothing wrong with the Honda and Toyata cars that couldn't be fixed by installing one of the diesel engine options that are available outside of North America! Honda makes one of the most advanced diesels for its Accord but not for us yet....... I would love one in my Honda Pilot and it would likely give 30% better mileage....

Of course what we really need is one of these from Audi;

[Audi also demonstrates the performance possibilities of diesel with its exotic R8 V-12 TDI concept sports car, which I took for a too-brief test drive. That blood-red, all-wheel-drive Audi had a 12-cylinder diesel mounted behind my head, generating 500 horsepower and an astounding 737 pound-feet of torque. Audi claims the R8 will rocket from 0 to 60 in about 4 seconds and reach a top speed of 190 m.p.h., all while delivering 24 m.p.g. Audi has not said whether it will put the car into production.]

dariod said:

So what is wrong with Toyota or Honda gas versions?????????

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I need a car that gets 45+ mpg and has cargo room. Any Honda or Toyotas meet that requirement in the US?

the BDC guy in prince george had a 2003 jetta with >650,000 km on the clock when he got tired of the route

he drove to valemeont every day which is exactly 600km round trip on a deserted 2 lane highway with no stops and would fill up every night at my kids gas station

The MAF FAQ is here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=148753

Original OEM MAF sis on special at TDIPARTS.COM for $68.95: http://tdiparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1035

These usually run $120 or more...

EPA estimates for 2001 New Beetle 5 speed were 42 City, 49 Highway. http://www.edmunds.com/used/2001/volkswagen/newbeetle/100001953/specs.html

When our 2003 was in top tune and using regular diesel(instead of Biodiesel) spot old-fashioned checks would vary from 42-46mpg in mixed freeway/around town driving, with an good dose of heavy right foot...

K5ING said:

I need a car that gets 45+ mpg and has cargo room. Any Honda or Toyotas meet that requirement in the US?

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Not to burst your bubbles but when you look how much is diesel higher than RUG (average now 60 cents per gallon) you end up driving like 36 MPG car which was almost very achievable with the old Toyota Corolla station wagon (plenty of cargo space) so that 45MPG is just a good selling point for rookies.