CJAA vs CKRA vs CVCA

jw4free

Veteran Member
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Aug 28, 2014
Location
NW Boston Metro
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE
The differences between these engines can be found with some searching.

My question is what are your opinions of positive and negatives with respect to each engine.

I'll go first.

I think solenoid injectors are better than Piezo for long term durability.

A separate pumped loop for intercooler temperature control seems like additional complexity without substantial benefit (though the '15 have a phase 1 fix, and the '12-'14 don't).

The CKRA 3 year model run vs. global continued supply is an advantage to CVCA.

I know the CJAA didn't come in a Passat. This isn't really model specific, I just didn't think it was TDI 101 stuff. (move it if you want).

If this post is lame, just don't reply.
 

dieselherb1

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06 MK5,09 Mk5 CR,03 Mk4,96,2-97 B4s,98 A3,2000 A4,4 Caddies( 2-1.6TD,1.6,TDI) Chevys 6.2,6.5,6.5TD
What are differences in the engines?
 

jck66

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Joined
Jan 4, 2001
Location
Greenwich, CT, USA
TDI
12 Passat SE / 14 BMW 535d
My favorite is the 1Z but that isn't offered anymore...

Simple turbo/wastegate setup, simple exhaust treatment, minimal EGR/CCV/alphabet stuff, easily hardware modifications, and the list goes on.

I miss my old Passat. Wah.
 

740GLE

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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Gen1 Gen2 and Gen3, as listed in the title.

gen2 and i think gen3 use solenoid injectors, gen1 piezos

There are hands down way more Gen1's out there (jettas, wagons, golfs) that have proven pretty good miles under their belts.

Complexity of the later gens went up (especially coolant loops./pumps) which may negate any savings in cheaper injectors.

I don't think anything after the CEBA use a balance shaft, which was a 2009 only run. I could be wrong on this, no balance shaft is better IMO
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I believe the Audi A3 used the CBEA through the '14 model year. The CKRA also uses a balance shaft like the CBEA.
 

Rico567

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Central IL
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2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
<snip>

I don't think anything after the CEBA use a balance shaft, which was a 2009 only run. I could be wrong on this, no balance shaft is better IMO
This self-study document from the thread "2014 CKRA engine diagram or cutaway view" Common Rail SELF STUDY DOC33_IL_40CA_1680_Diesel_Engine_2.0L_TDI_CommonRail_BIN5_UL.pdf

...shows 2 balance shafts on p. 14. Doesn't look like the CKRA engine on our car in the pix, but elsewhere in that thread, "oilhammer" says the CKRA has a balance shaft, and I'd be inclined to trust his knowledge. I think most of the 4-cylinder cars we've owned have had balance shafts, never a problem, and given what I understand of the issues in balancing these engines, I really don't know how one would dispense with them.
 
Last edited:

jrm

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Jul 24, 2013
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anyone else here the rumor that VW mite look at bringing diesel back again?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The CBEA and CJAA are essentially the same, except the CBEA has a balance shaft module. Also the 2009 CBEA cars have a couple other minor differences, most notably the one-piece DPF/catalyst and different pressure sensors.

While the G/J/B switched to the CJAA in 2010, the Audi A3 continued with the CBEA through 2014, but with the updated pressure sensors and two-piece exhaust parts of the CJAA. The A3 also uses a different fuel filter.

CBEA/CJAA use piezo fired injectors, higher rail pressure, and the dual EGR and deNOx catalysts as their only [intended] NOx controls.

They still both use the same style air-to-air charge air cooler as the previous TDIs use.

The CKRA shares hardly any parts with the other engines. It uses solenoid injectors, lower rail pressure, an air-to-water charge air cooler on the intake manifold. In addition to the dual EGR, it also adds SCR. It also has a balance shaft module. It has a different head, turbo, block, timing components, oil filter, fuel filter (like the A3's), etc. than the other engines.

While the CBEA/CJAA have more turbo problems than the older PD and VE TDIs, the CKRA's turbo problems are twice as bad as that. So bad, that a warranty extension was issued for them. They also have DEF tank heater issues, also resulting in a warranty extension. However, the SCR does afford them a wee bit better fuel efficiency, despite moving a bigger heavier car.

The CVCA, while I would not consider it a 100% clean slate engine, is pretty different from the previous versions. It is probably most closely related to the CKRA, although it doesn't really share much of any parts with it.

It has dual balance shafts, but are now in the block. It also adds variable water pump (which has been a weak spot) and variable oil pump (VAG gassers have had these for a decade or so now). The oil filter was moved back down below, the SCR system is completely revamped, with the DEF injector now being up high by the firewall. It also holds more oil.

Given the CVCA was, for us, a one year only, and we only got the "first" year, I suspect there will be a lot of teething troubles with it... some, possibly most, of which have likely been eliminated by now (2018, almost 2019, models), but we of course won't get to experience that. Some of these improvements may even be reverse compatible... so an improved water pump that say came into service half way through the 2016 model year may be able to be installed on a 2015 engine to remedy the premature failures we've seen.

But there may be other issues that will never be able to be easily gotten past. Really a shame, as I think that would have marked the final maturing process of the CR TDI, and by now would probably provide a really stellar engine for someone actually able to purchase a new one. :(
 

740GLE

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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Thanks for clarifying on the balance shafts. Are you aware of block seals on the balance shaft for the CVCA?

From my limited knowledge of EA888 gassers, there have been a few reported leaks from their seals which are just as bad as RMS to replace. Curious if this may also pose an issue for the CVCA.

I believe the head design between CKRA and CVCA is another revision better for increased EGR cooling and quicker warm up times.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Have not seen any issues with those plugs yet, but have heard of it on the gassers. Of course, the VAG gas engines have so many problems it is hard to keep up with any more. Makes the older gassers' problems seem so trivial in comparison. Man I would not own one of those new ones, LOL.
 

740GLE

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Lalalala i hear nothing i hear nothing lalalalala
 
Joined
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Location
Indianola Iowa
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2006 Jetta MK5
The CBEA and CJAA are essentially the same, except the CBEA has a balance shaft module. Also the 2009 CBEA cars have a couple other minor differences, most notably the one-piece DPF/catalyst and different pressure sensors.



While the G/J/B switched to the CJAA in 2010, the Audi A3 continued with the CBEA through 2014, but with the updated pressure sensors and two-piece exhaust parts of the CJAA. The A3 also uses a different fuel filter.



CBEA/CJAA use piezo fired injectors, higher rail pressure, and the dual EGR and deNOx catalysts as their only [intended] NOx controls.



They still both use the same style air-to-air charge air cooler as the previous TDIs use.



The CKRA shares hardly any parts with the other engines. It uses solenoid injectors, lower rail pressure, an air-to-water charge air cooler on the intake manifold. In addition to the dual EGR, it also adds SCR. It also has a balance shaft module. It has a different head, turbo, block, timing components, oil filter, fuel filter (like the A3's), etc. than the other engines.



While the CBEA/CJAA have more turbo problems than the older PD and VE TDIs, the CKRA's turbo problems are twice as bad as that. So bad, that a warranty extension was issued for them. They also have DEF tank heater issues, also resulting in a warranty extension. However, the SCR does afford them a wee bit better fuel efficiency, despite moving a bigger heavier car.



The CVCA, while I would not consider it a 100% clean slate engine, is pretty different from the previous versions. It is probably most closely related to the CKRA, although it doesn't really share much of any parts with it.



It has dual balance shafts, but are now in the block. It also adds variable water pump (which has been a weak spot) and variable oil pump (VAG gassers have had these for a decade or so now). The oil filter was moved back down below, the SCR system is completely revamped, with the DEF injector now being up high by the firewall. It also holds more oil.



Given the CVCA was, for us, a one year only, and we only got the "first" year, I suspect there will be a lot of teething troubles with it... some, possibly most, of which have likely been eliminated by now (2018, almost 2019, models), but we of course won't get to experience that. Some of these improvements may even be reverse compatible... so an improved water pump that say came into service half way through the 2016 model year may be able to be installed on a 2015 engine to remedy the premature failures we've seen.



But there may be other issues that will never be able to be easily gotten past. Really a shame, as I think that would have marked the final maturing process of the CR TDI, and by now would probably provide a really stellar engine for someone actually able to purchase a new one. :(


Any updates to the CVCA or links to other information you’ve posted on them oilhammer? Or any additional CKRA info? I’m currently researching what I might want to replace my 06 BRM PD with... Also I was hunting for well priced CR’s in your neck of the woods... [emoji16]
 

farnhamassoc

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06 Jetta tdi, 09 TDI SPORTWAGEN 2011 Audi a3 TDI. VW caddy turbo diesel... Various vw split window busses
Trust me, as a fan of the brand, it sickens me to no end. :(
Thanks for the info. I am putting a CJAA in my 2009. Looks pretty straight forward except the thermostat housing is much different. 2010 jetta CJAA engine in 2009 sportwagen. Most of the parts look the same except for the coolant pipe and the therm housing. I want to put my CBEA stuff on it. The Wiring harness is PERFECT on the CJAA. But the placement of the Coolnant tempreature sensor is not in the same position. CJAA is on the Top hose and the CBEA is on the bottom hose near thermostat housing. Wiring harness needs to be modified or do I need to use my cbea harness. Any input. CBEA failure from Hex shaft.
 

farnhamassoc

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TDI
06 Jetta tdi, 09 TDI SPORTWAGEN 2011 Audi a3 TDI. VW caddy turbo diesel... Various vw split window busses
they did away with that temp sensor as far as I can tell. ANY input on this. Software changes adaptions coding that I could use to use the CJAA engine.
 

farnhamassoc

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Riverside CA
TDI
06 Jetta tdi, 09 TDI SPORTWAGEN 2011 Audi a3 TDI. VW caddy turbo diesel... Various vw split window busses
for anyone else looking here is a copy of the post on this will make it easier to find

The CJA cars have the same temp sensor, it is located further along on the radiator hose in a "Tee"
Part number for that Tee is N90693101
It is positioned almost directly in front of the oil cooler. You can probably just cut ~3cm out of the rad hose in that spot to install the Tee. I'm sure you have some extra spring clamps of that size. Then you just have to carry over the sensor from the CBE Tstat housing into the Tee. Probably not a bad idea to put a new o-ring on it. O-ring is N90316802 (19.6x3.65mm)

where ever you decide to cut in, first ensure that the harness/connector will reach that spot.

You really don't want to start messing around with that T-stat housing on the CJA.


I think I just found the place on the harness that has the coolant temp sensor. WHEW!!!! just bought this engine. Good deal 60k miles for 727 plus 250 shipping plus tax. Not bad super clean engine and that came with perfect turbo checked it out.
 

farnhamassoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
Riverside CA
TDI
06 Jetta tdi, 09 TDI SPORTWAGEN 2011 Audi a3 TDI. VW caddy turbo diesel... Various vw split window busses
The CBEA and CJAA are essentially the same, except the CBEA has a balance shaft module. Also the 2009 CBEA cars have a couple other minor differences, most notably the one-piece DPF/catalyst and different pressure sensors.

While the G/J/B switched to the CJAA in 2010, the Audi A3 continued with the CBEA through 2014, but with the updated pressure sensors and two-piece exhaust parts of the CJAA. The A3 also uses a different fuel filter.

CBEA/CJAA use piezo fired injectors, higher rail pressure, and the dual EGR and deNOx catalysts as their only [intended] NOx controls.

They still both use the same style air-to-air charge air cooler as the previous TDIs use.

The CKRA shares hardly any parts with the other engines. It uses solenoid injectors, lower rail pressure, an air-to-water charge air cooler on the intake manifold. In addition to the dual EGR, it also adds SCR. It also has a balance shaft module. It has a different head, turbo, block, timing components, oil filter, fuel filter (like the A3's), etc. than the other engines.

While the CBEA/CJAA have more turbo problems than the older PD and VE TDIs, the CKRA's turbo problems are twice as bad as that. So bad, that a warranty extension was issued for them. They also have DEF tank heater issues, also resulting in a warranty extension. However, the SCR does afford them a wee bit better fuel efficiency, despite moving a bigger heavier car.

The CVCA, while I would not consider it a 100% clean slate engine, is pretty different from the previous versions. It is probably most closely related to the CKRA, although it doesn't really share much of any parts with it.

It has dual balance shafts, but are now in the block. It also adds variable water pump (which has been a weak spot) and variable oil pump (VAG gassers have had these for a decade or so now). The oil filter was moved back down below, the SCR system is completely revamped, with the DEF injector now being up high by the firewall. It also holds more oil.

Given the CVCA was, for us, a one year only, and we only got the "first" year, I suspect there will be a lot of teething troubles with it... some, possibly most, of which have likely been eliminated by now (2018, almost 2019, models), but we of course won't get to experience that. Some of these improvements may even be reverse compatible... so an improved water pump that say came into service half way through the 2016 model year may be able to be installed on a 2015 engine to remedy the premature failures we've seen.

But there may be other issues that will never be able to be easily gotten past. Really a shame, as I think that would have marked the final maturing process of the CR TDI, and by now would probably provide a really stellar engine for someone actually able to purchase a new one. :(
I hope you answer this one. Do you know if the CBEA in the 2011 Audi still has the 77mm hex shaft for the oil pump or did VW change it to the 100mm. I am not driving the one I got till I update it has 160 on the clock. Drove it for the first time got it with a bad Mechatronic Cheap. Plus I am doing a CP3 on it waiting for parts so no hurry. Thanks in advance I really enjoy your posts lots of great knowledge you share with us.
 
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