Why you should buy a Diesel with a DSG transmission

Diesl said:

Did you really mean that, dramatic? I doubt there is much difference at all for the same driving distance and average speed.

Click to expand...

Look at your own Fuelly number. My '12 Golf manual averaged over 43 lifetime MPG. That difference is pretty typical.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Look at your own Fuelly number. My '12 Golf manual averaged over 43 lifetime MPG. That difference is pretty typical.

Click to expand...

You can't keep changing the parameters of the conversation depending on which point you're trying to make

You're certainly not getting 43 mpg when you're driving in a "spirited fashion"

Yes, I did. I drove the Golf the same way I drive every car: accelerate moderately most of the time, shifting at 2500-3000 RPM, with occasional runs to the redline in 2nd or 3rd. I rarely drive below 75 on the highway, mostly around an indicated 80.

My Golf got less short trip and winter use than my '02, and if it had been my only car my overall Fuelly number may have been a couple MPG less. But I almost never saw below 40, and got nearly 48 on a run from Michigan to MA at 80 MPH with the A/C on. At the time the car only had 13K on it.

The Golf is lighter than a JSW, which helps. I was also running 15" wheels, which also helps. But if you had a manual in your wagon I'd bet you'd be seeing an average much closer to 40 than the 36.9 you show.

You confused me with Diesl. I *do* get 40 mpg with my DSG.

2500-3000 is not "spirited driving," in my opinion. That's normal driving and shifting patterns. It's also close to where my DSG shifts, FYI. When I do spirited driving in my BMW I don't shift below 5K and more often closer to 6500K (redline). Sometimes I wind out my bug, but I still find myself shifting around 4K. It's pointless to wind a TDI out, in my experience, the torque curve is pretty flat.

If I put my DSG in "sport" mode I get shifting behavior similar to when I hot foot my bug and I'm sure without checking that my economy plummets accordingly, which isn't something I care about when I'm driving like that. And that's Diesl's point. Pushing either car to the top of the power curve, regardless of transmission, the FE differences are going to be marginal at best.


You refuted your own example. You compared two different cars, with different weights, different wheels, and different driving patterns. If you actually look at his fuelly data he drives over 30% in the city, which likely accounts for his lower FE more than his DSG.

I barely drive in the city. I pull out of my gate, drive about 100 feet, take a left, drive about 4 blocks, take a left, and merge onto the freeway. When I get off the freeway, I merge onto a highway, go through a few lights, turn left, drive two blocks, and turn right, and drive 6 blocks to my work's parking lot. When I drive the bug I shift less than twenty times. I detailed my commute, so you're welcome to check my math of the shifts I would have to do on it. I haven't ever bothered, it's immaterial to my day.

The only time I'd see a FE argument coming into play is for someone driving around in stop and go traffic more often than a TDI owner should be doing.

If I drove the Golf daily when I owned it it would have been driven about 70% city. In fact with the limited driving I did in it it ended up being about 30% city. It's difficult to drive around Boston without sitting in traffic at some point. And I did say "spirited" conditionally, comparing it to what hypermilers do. It's difficult to drive any car around here in a true spirited fashion. Traffic and police get in the way. I would think they would in SoCal, too. Also, keep in mind you don't have winter where you are, when common rail cars take a pretty big MPG hit. So your mileage numbers aren't comparable to cars in the North.

I'm not going to argue about this any more. If you look at Fuelly data it's pretty clear that DSGs take a MPG hit compared to manuals.

You said yourself that if it'd been your only car you'd have gotten a few MPG less, which would have put you within 1 or 2 mpg's of Diesl's 37mpg average (and exactly at, or even slightly below mine).

I did and do look at the fuelly data. I researched this extensively before deciding on a DSG, the first time in my life I haven't owned a manual. The "hit" is 1 or 2 mpg.

Neither your example nor the fuelly data indicate a "dramatic" difference by anyone's definition.


(and we do have a winter...sure it's going to be 90 degrees later today but right now it's 63 )

With stock tires and daily driving I think my Fuelly average would have been around 41. Diesl's is just below 37. That's about what I would expect. And Lord, does Chicago have traffic. If anything it is, in my experience, worse than Boston.

I know what you mean by "winter." I have family all around the Pasadena area, and hear about it endlessly.

LOL. People still arguing over an OPTION.

By the way. Anyone who got a Blue Passat is stupid. Everyone knows blue Passat's are terrible. Why in gods name would you get a blue one? I hear FE is lower on the blue ones. Except that one guy who swears he gets 72mpg because his is blue.

I get 50+ mpg with my DSG daily.

fxk said:

When I bought my '14 VW Sportwagen w/DSG for my wife, I bought a TDI+"automatic". That's what she wants, that's what she gets.

frank

Click to expand...

You see the problem I face. Wifey wont learn to drive stick shift.

LRTDI said:

You see the problem I face. Wifey wont learn to drive stick shift.

Click to expand...

Well, unless she has a bum knee, she needs to take the bus then. Retard behavior should not be rewarded.

My wife learned to drive a manual in the 1980's and can drive one without destroying it. The ONLY reason she drive a automatic these days is because she has a bum knee, which I have generously given her a pass on.

Drnknmnky13 said:

LOL. People still arguing over an OPTION.

By the way. Anyone who got a Blue Passat is stupid. Everyone knows blue Passat's are terrible. Why in gods name would you get a blue one? I hear FE is lower on the blue ones. Except that one guy who swears he gets 72mpg because his is blue.

Click to expand...

You are wrong. My preferences are better than your preferences. My white passat get 90 miles to the gallon and emits angels tears only.

Lets now argue about hair color. Im prepared to tell you why your opinion should be my opinion extensively

Drnknmnky13 said:

LOL. People still arguing over an OPTION.

By the way. Anyone who got a Blue Passat is stupid. Everyone knows blue Passat's are terrible. Why in gods name would you get a blue one? I hear FE is lower on the blue ones. Except that one guy who swears he gets 72mpg because his is blue.

Click to expand...

Nothing helpful here. The whole idea of a public forums is to discuss different points of view or even opinions in a civil manner. Not to post completely retarded posts that have nothing to to with the opinions or ideas that are on point with the actually topic.

If you don't have anything constructive to post, go over to the Vortex and let those folks hand you your head.

Ol'Rattler said:

Well, unless she has a bum knee, she needs to take the bus then. Retard behavior should not be rewarded.

My wife learned to drive a manual in the 1980's and can drive one without destroying it. The ONLY reason she drive a automatic these days is because she has a bum knee, which I have generously given her a pass on.

Click to expand...

I don't think you have very much experience with "retard" behavior. Preferring an automatic to a manual is not retarded, it is personal preference, simple as that.

I have a mentally retarded aunt and in the 40+ years she has been alive I can safely say that driving an automatic was never part of her "retard behavior."

For what its worth, before I deleted my CR I compared my fuel mileage to that of my brother's girlfriend who also has a '10 Jetta TDI. Only difference between the cars is tranny, I've got a 6 speed and she has a DSG. On the same route driving the same speeds at the same time of day (night, actually, third shift here) the DSG consistently got 3-4 mpg less than my car. These are hand calculated numbers too. The drive is 2.7 miles of 45mph to the interstate and then 33 miles (or so) of 68mph into downtown Louisville.

Ol'Rattler said:

Nothing helpful here. The whole idea of a public forums is to discuss different points of view or even opinions in a civil manner. Not to post completely retarded posts that have nothing to to with the opinions or ideas that are on point with the actually topic.

If you don't have anything constructive to post, go over to the Vortex and let those folks hand you your head.

Click to expand...

The only thing retarded is continuing to whine that a personal preference is retarded. Have to wonder just why it is you care so much about it? You sound like a 12 year old kid arguing about which power ranger is cooler. Yeesh

I dont like driving a DSG, so i drive a manual. I dont like a DSG even compared to a conventional automatic. Others prefer a DSG. Both DSG and manual are pretty reliable and return often comparable economy. Which one you drive is a matter of prefence. End of debate.

Instead of the endless and pointless debate of manual vs auto, we should debate why or why not a DSG makes sense over a conventional slushbox, because thats what it replaces.

LRTDI said:

You see the problem I face. Wifey wont learn to drive stick shift.

Click to expand...

I managed to teach the mrs just so in an emergency she can drive one of my cars, but depending on the person its a lost cause. She will drive a manual classic car, but has zero interest in a manual DD.

these DSG discussion are pretty much a waste of time, but they do give one a chance to just waste a little time like I am doing.
No ones mind will be changed, but a lot of opinions will be voiced, to no effect.

Now go ahead.......

peobryant said:

I don't think you have very much experience with "retard" behavior. Preferring an automatic to a manual is not retarded, it is personal preference, simple as that.

I have a mentally retarded aunt and in the 40+ years she has been alive I can safely say that driving an automatic was never part of her "retard behavior."

Click to expand...

My intent was not to offend anyone. The term I used was just a way to describe a post that had no relevance to the discussion.

To answer the original question...

Because you want one!

redbarron55 said:

To answer the original question...

Because you want one!

Click to expand...

You pretty much nailed it. Other than that, the only real reason is that you have a bum knee and can't push a clutch petal.

It just kills me how much drama folks attach to driving a clutch. Lets see: "Driving a clutch in stop and go traffic is just so difficult". What complete nonsense. I do it every day with my SMF and have never had a issue with "rowing" the gears.

I guess that if you are a man and trying to grow a vagina,you might have issues with a manual transmission.

Of course my wife, who is not a man and not trying to grow a vagina which she already has has no problem with driving a manual.

While my local guru was trying to sort out a problem with the door locks on IBW (unsuccessfully) he let me take his '12 Passat so I could go back to work for a few hours. Best I can say is I didn't hate the DSG. It shifted at lower revs than I would have, but it worked well otherwise, only a few odd characteristics compared to my old slushbox M-B automatic. But I prefer the Benz, with a sloppy torque converter and no lock up.

I was thinking "this isn't too bad" until I picked my wagon up and drove home (in Friday afternoon traffic, btw). No DSG for me, thanks.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

While my local guru was trying to sort out a problem with the door locks on IBW (unsuccessfully) he let me take his '12 Passat so I could go back to work for a few hours. Best I can say is I didn't hate the DSG. It shifted at lower revs than I would have, but it worked well otherwise, only a few odd characteristics compared to my old slushbox M-B automatic. But I prefer the Benz, with a sloppy torque converter and no lock up.

I was thinking "this isn't too bad" until I picked my wagon up and drove home (in Friday afternoon traffic, btw). No DSG for me, thanks.

Click to expand...

This is my biggest gripe with the DSG, being in one gear higher than I would typically be in. It's not such a big deal in the lower gears, but in the higher gears, it's annoying. I hope to fix that with a DSG tune.

I find sport mode does a fairly good job at keeping the car in the power band and much more menuverable.

GreenLantern_TDI said:

I find sport mode does a fairly good job at keeping the car in the power band and much more menuverable.

Click to expand...

Sport mode is just the opposite, it keeps RPMs too high (at least on the GTI). Does it do the same on the TDIs? Ideally with a manual transmission, you wan to keep the cruising engine speed near to 2,000 RPM, though 1700 to 2300 is do-able. You can go a bit lower in the lower gears.

The DSG needs 3 modes: economy, sport and real-world

I've never noticed that issue but then again I'm either driving a few miles in town to the freeway or on it trying to keep myself somewhere close to the speed limit.

If it bothers people that much you don't have to rely on the computer, there is a paddle selector.

In town driving is irrelevant now, we just leased a '16 eGolf last night

Bob, Sport mode on the TDIs has the same result. Too many revs. DSG tunes can help.

I prefer manual transmissions. The only 2 vehicles the wife and me have owned together that were NOT manuals were the Beetle and the Golf. The Beetle's O1M died at 252,000 miles - and it has been 5 speed manual (SMF) ever since.

The Golf was bought with the DSG because at that time - that was all the dealer had in stock in a 2015 TDI SE. Since it was going to be the wife's daily driver, and she didn't care as much as me - we got the DSG - it's not a bad transmission - and in Sport mode - drives real close to what I drive my Beetle for shift points, etc.

The DSG drives better than the Nissan Versa Note with the CVT we rented one summer to drive to Kansas (the same time the NB was getting it's fuel pump replaced).

I drive my 5 speed manual Beetle daily in traffic in Raliegh - I see 2 lane country road, town, 4 lane divided suburban (highway), 6 lane in city (45MPH) , 6 lane Interstate (60 MPH) and back to suburban just on the way to work - basically reverse that on the way home. In bad stop and go - yeah - an automatic would sometimes be nice. OTOH - selecting my own gears I am smooth as silk going through all that - I've had comments from passengers about how well I handle a stick.

I do feel that driving a manual helps tremendously on how much attention a driver spends on their driving vs anything else - (try a motorcycle someday - you will be HYPERAWARE of everything going on around you !).

Overall, I like my 7-speed DQ200 in my 1.2 TSI Polo. Mine supersedes both the firmware and corrosive oil recalls, and there is no maintenance required.

It's unobtrusive while driving and I've never felt the need to override it with sport or manual mode.

Unlike a conventional automatic there is no sluggishness at high RPM.

My only issue is that it doesn't know when the handbrake is on and fights it aggressively when you take your foot off the brake.

The 7-speed is fitted to the Golf 1.6 TDI as well.

Corrosive oil? Please elaborate.

Ol'Rattler said:

Nothing helpful here. The whole idea of a public forums is to discuss different points of view or even opinions in a civil manner. Not to post completely retarded posts that have nothing to to with the opinions or ideas that are on point with the actually topic.

If you don't have anything constructive to post, go over to the Vortex and let those folks hand you your head.

Click to expand...

It's my OPINION, that arguing over an OPTION, that has been hashed, rehashed, and beaten upon over and over is stupid.

You don't like the DSG...don't get it. It's really that simple. Saying everyone who drives a DSG isn't a man and is growing a vagina isn't exactly civil.